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The Problem with Andrew Tate (and Incel Radicalization)

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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:50 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:No, outlawing NAZIism is not oppression. Fuck NAZIism. If your end goal is hatred and division, then fuck your ideology. However, equating your average, run of the mill right-winger to a NAZI does nothing but proves my point

There are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general right wing ideas and Nazism.

Yes, and the are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general left winged ideas and communism. Does that make all left-wingers communists? There are some legitimate parallels to draw between EXTREMIST Islam and NAZIism. Does that make all Muslims NAZIs? There are parallels to be drawn between Christianity and socialism. Does that make all Christians socialist? Terrible point it terrible. What about Jewish right wingers? Are Jewish people NAZIs? What about black right wingers? Are they NAZIs?
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Alcala-Cordel
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:56 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:There are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general right wing ideas and Nazism.

Yes, and the are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general left winged ideas and communism. Does that make all left-wingers communists?

The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.
There are some legitimate parallels to draw between EXTREMIST Islam and NAZIism. Does that make all Muslims NAZIs? There are parallels to be drawn between Christianity and socialism. Does that make all Christians socialist? Terrible point it terrible.

That's much more of a stretch, because both the bible and the quran are very contradictory and the people who believe them have all sorts of ideas. Christianity and Islam are very comparable to each other, though.
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The Second Order of Life
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Founded: Oct 09, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Second Order of Life » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:56 pm

Saiwania wrote:


Your eyes can deceive you, which is what makes Trans so dangerous in my mind. If it becomes known that they aren't as they appear, I'll adjust accordingly. In my judgement, Aydian is a woman who has become unattractive to straight cisgender men in general. But perhaps she only cares about being able to "pass" as a man. On that metric, mission is accomplished. Its very distressing and disappointing from my perspective, but its their life.


Woah woah woah woah woah. Are we just gonna gloss over this?
Like, blatant misgendering and complete denial of transgerism as well as calling trans people "dangerous"? "Distressing and disappointing"? When did this thread suddenly jump into transphobia?
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:57 pm

The Second Order of Life wrote:
Saiwania wrote:
Your eyes can deceive you, which is what makes Trans so dangerous in my mind. If it becomes known that they aren't as they appear, I'll adjust accordingly. In my judgement, Aydian is a woman who has become unattractive to straight cisgender men in general. But perhaps she only cares about being able to "pass" as a man. On that metric, mission is accomplished. Its very distressing and disappointing from my perspective, but its their life.


Woah woah woah woah woah. Are we just gonna gloss over this?
Like, blatant misgendering and complete denial of transgerism as well as calling trans people "dangerous"? "Distressing and disappointing"? When did this thread suddenly jump into transphobia?


This is Sai, he does this regularly.

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The Second Order of Life
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Second Order of Life » Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:59 pm

Celritannia wrote:This is Sai, he does this regularly.


Good to know, I guess. Or bad to know, one more blatant transphobe to the list. It's impressively rare to find ones like that, they're generally more well-hidden, but it's still just as distressing and disappointing to find one nonetheless.
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Saiwania
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Saiwania » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:01 pm

Celritannia wrote:This is just sickening.


No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:03 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Celritannia wrote:This is just sickening.


No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.


No one is stopping you from doing that, but you have no right to deny the fact that someone is the gender they say they are.
Also, this is not correct, the concept of transgender individuals/3+ genders has been a part of human society since the beginning of civilisation.
Last edited by Celritannia on Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Second Order of Life
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Founded: Oct 09, 2022
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Second Order of Life » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:06 pm

Saiwania wrote:No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.


No one's stopping you from having a genital preference, no need for the side of transphobia. And, not impressively, you seem to conflate gender and sex as one and the same, which is just painfully untrue.
Last edited by The Second Order of Life on Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Apocalyptic Haven
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Apocalyptic Haven » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:06 pm

Saiwania wrote:
Celritannia wrote:This is just sickening.


No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.


Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.
Just think of the Pacific Northwest under a charismatic, theocratic ruler who has many wives, lovers, etc. and was directly appointed by the hand of God. With plenty of both leftist and some rightist policies in place under his enlightened guidance. Very sex-positive laws, too. This ain't your grandfather's theocracy. It's a utopia in the midst of a post apocalyptic Dark Age.

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The Second Order of Life
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Second Order of Life » Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:13 pm

Apocalyptic Haven wrote:Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.


I'm gonna write this down for future usage, thank you for your wisdom, kind stranger.
Last edited by The Second Order of Life on Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THE SECOND ORDER OF LIFE
As have our ancestors, we shall maintain
Ruler of the Order, Adamant Will 074, holder of the Mantle of Maintenance and protector of the Articles of Creation
She/her, master of insecurity.
I'm not joking I literally take 10 minutes to post because I'm afraid
people will judge me please help-
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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:41 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Yes, and the are legitimate parallels to be drawn between some general left winged ideas and communism. Does that make all left-wingers communists?

The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

Communism is good? :lol2: :rofl: :lol2: Tell that to the people in Mainland China, or East Germany, or North Korea, or North Vietnam, or the former USSR. Communism was really, really good in those societies. Such a good system
There are some legitimate parallels to draw between EXTREMIST Islam and NAZIism. Does that make all Muslims NAZIs? There are parallels to be drawn between Christianity and socialism. Does that make all Christians socialist? Terrible point it terrible.

That's much more of a stretch, because both the bible and the quran are very contradictory and the people who believe them have all sorts of ideas. Christianity and Islam are very comparable to each other, though.
[/quote]
Not the fucking point
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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:51 pm

Apocalyptic Haven wrote:Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.
We often say that the personal is political. Well then, why shouldn't the political be personal?
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Fahran
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:53 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

We should actively suppress and marginalize both Nazis and Communists, and should pursue sharper measures based on whichever poses the greater risk to political stability and the citizenry at any particular point in time. But we're getting a little off-topic here.
We often say that the personal is political. Well then, why shouldn't the political be personal?
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:56 pm

Saiwania wrote:Why defend a society if you see it as no good? I want it replaced with something different, but how or with what is the big question? People are upset at the Taliban taking over Afghanistan for example, but they're arguably an improvement over previous regime and has legitimacy in the context of that country's people and principles.

The Taliban are, by no stretch of logic, an improvement over the Islamic Republic. They're better than the Democratic Republic because that regime was largely maintained by copious amounts of murder that make comparisons to the American adventure in Vietnam appropriate, but the rights of most Afghans have regressed since the Islamic Emirate came to power - as has the economic situation and the standard of living.
We often say that the personal is political. Well then, why shouldn't the political be personal?
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Apocalyptic Haven
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Founded: Jun 17, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Apocalyptic Haven » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:57 pm

Fahran wrote:
Apocalyptic Haven wrote:Since supposedly Eve was made with Adam’s tissue, but somehow came out female, she was basically a transgender clone of Adam.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why this is wrong.


Only in the sense that neither of them actually existed and there was no literal six day creation by an omnipotent Heavenly Father.
Just think of the Pacific Northwest under a charismatic, theocratic ruler who has many wives, lovers, etc. and was directly appointed by the hand of God. With plenty of both leftist and some rightist policies in place under his enlightened guidance. Very sex-positive laws, too. This ain't your grandfather's theocracy. It's a utopia in the midst of a post apocalyptic Dark Age.

“Go West, young man.” - Horace Greeley
"Agitate, agitate, agitate." - Frederick Douglass, advising a young man
Neoliberal and neoconservative elites will have no clue how much they are hated until just after they are removed from power.

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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:02 am

Apocalyptic Haven wrote:Only in the sense that neither of them actually existed and there was no literal six day creation by an omnipotent Heavenly Father.

People who dislike religion really shouldn't pretend to be theologians.

Anyway... back to the actual topic...

It keeps getting worse. Apparently, there are now additionanal allegations of Tate attempting to groom underaged girls. His behavior seems to fall a basic pattern used by human traffickers and pimps to lure young women into the sex industry.
We often say that the personal is political. Well then, why shouldn't the political be personal?
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Apocalyptic Haven
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Apocalyptic Haven » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:03 am

Fahran wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

We should actively suppress and marginalize both Nazis and Communists, and should pursue sharper measures based on whichever poses the greater risk to political stability and the citizenry at any particular point in time. But we're getting a little off-topic here.


The Communists are misguided fanatics, but they aren’t scum. The Nazis are scum. False equivalence is immoral in my book. But I’ve got your number now. You represent mainstream normalcy, bourgeois, suburban values, morality, perspectives, etc. I don’t. I represent a very New Age social restructuring paradigm that favors a mix of socialist and capitalist policies and categorically rejects existing morality in favor of something more enlightened.
Last edited by Apocalyptic Haven on Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just think of the Pacific Northwest under a charismatic, theocratic ruler who has many wives, lovers, etc. and was directly appointed by the hand of God. With plenty of both leftist and some rightist policies in place under his enlightened guidance. Very sex-positive laws, too. This ain't your grandfather's theocracy. It's a utopia in the midst of a post apocalyptic Dark Age.

“Go West, young man.” - Horace Greeley
"Agitate, agitate, agitate." - Frederick Douglass, advising a young man
Neoliberal and neoconservative elites will have no clue how much they are hated until just after they are removed from power.

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Forever Indomitable
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Founded: Jul 25, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Forever Indomitable » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:05 am

Saiwania wrote:
No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

M8, I just don't understand why you're so passionate about this. Why does everyone have to fit neatly into a static category? Nature doesn't conform to your view of sex. Did you know that female Hyenas are the alphas of their species, have a pseudo penis and have an average of 3 times as much testosterone as the males? Sexuality is not black and white and never has been.
https://africageographic.com/stories/go ... hyena-cub/
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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:13 am

Apocalyptic Haven wrote:The Communists are misguided fanatics, but they aren’t scum. The Nazis are scum. False equivalence is immoral in my book. But I’ve got your number now.

People aren't scum. They're people. All of them have intrinsic value as people, even when they promote hateful, stupid, or evil things, even when you have to suppress their ideology or marginalize them.

I'm not equating Nazis and Communists. I'm simply pointing out that society, on the whole, has no vested interest in permitting either of those ideologies to amass support or impact the broader political paradigm in a massive way. We can borrow a couple neat ideas from them - amusingly enough lefties won't stop borrowing Schmitt's critique of liberal democracy, but we don't benefit by letting them grow and prosper.

Apocalyptic Haven wrote:You represent mainstream normalcy, bourgeois, suburban values, morality, perspectives, etc. I don’t.

I'm a conservative. I have quite a few critiques of the Enlightenment - from various perspectives. I wouldn't really describe myself as completely mainstream and I'm definitely not a suburbanite.

Apocalyptic Haven wrote:I represent a very New Age social restructuring paradigm that favors a mix of socialist and capitalist policies and categorically rejects existing morality in favor of something more enlightened.

Neat? What does this have to do with Andrew Tate though?

This just sounds like social democracy with a more progressive attitude towards social values and with less interest in definitions and boundaries. We probably actually agree on a few policies even. I just don't really see any reason to not marginalize extremists.
Last edited by Fahran on Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
We often say that the personal is political. Well then, why shouldn't the political be personal?
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:17 am

I think we should probably take this to the TGT or FDT at this point. We're getting a little off-topic. I will say this though. Nobody is going to force you to date trans women, Sai, and, given you've expressed dissatisfaction with talking to cis women, I'm not even certain why this is a conversation we're having in an unrelated thread.
Last edited by Fahran on Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
We often say that the personal is political. Well then, why shouldn't the political be personal?
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Costa Fierro
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:24 am

Saiwania wrote:No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.


You mean European cultures.
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Forever Indomitable
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Ex-Nation

Postby Forever Indomitable » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:35 am

Costa Fierro wrote:
Saiwania wrote:No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.


You mean European cultures.

You mean the Middle Eastern religions that colonized, erased and revised actual European cultures?
https://medium.com/exploring-history/ge ... 8645fd50dc
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Those who wish to be, must put aside the alienation
Get on with the fascination
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Alcala-Cordel
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:38 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:The biggest difference here is that communism is good and Nazism isn't. I never said that all leftists we're communists or that all rightwingers are Nazis.

Communism is good? :lol2: :rofl: :lol2: Tell that to the people in Mainland China, or East Germany, or North Korea, or North Vietnam, or the former USSR. Communism was really, really good in those societies. Such a good system

I've probably had this argument several hundred times now and it gets more obnoxious every time. Communism kicks ass. Countries that call themselves communist don't, but "communist country" is an oxymoron anyways.
That's much more of a stretch, because both the bible and the quran are very contradictory and the people who believe them have all sorts of ideas. Christianity and Islam are very comparable to each other, though.

Not the fucking point

Not your point, but the only valid point that can really be drawn from what you said. Religion is more abstract than ideology and is interpreted to justify all sorts of contradictory things.
Last edited by Alcala-Cordel on Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:38 am

Forever Indomitable wrote:You mean the Middle Eastern religions that colonized, erased and revised actual European cultures?
https://medium.com/exploring-history/ge ... 8645fd50dc

This article is misleading.

This also isn't a thread about gender identity, nonconformity, and relations in pre-Christian European mythology, a topic that is frequently misunderstood or discussed without sufficient nuance. Again, that conversation is better held in the FDT, TDT, or in its own thread altogether.
We often say that the personal is political. Well then, why shouldn't the political be personal?
This too shall pass.

I've been contemplating the next season of my life for a few weeks now. I could worry about unfulfilling good byes and paltry words for a hundred more weeks, but I suppose this will suffice. If your eyes should happen upon this signature, I pray that you will find love, happiness, and righteousness with each morning that you rise and each evening that you sleep, secure in the knowledge that you are deeply worthy of such wondrous and beauteous things.

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Sedgistan
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Posts: 33004
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:46 am

Saiwania wrote:
Celritannia wrote:This is just sickening.


No, what is sickening from my perspective is being expected to just pretend or go along with the notion (from people I see as rediculous) that men can be women and women can be men, rather than your sex being set at birth/in the womb like was the case for most of entire world history among our species.

I want a chance with my biological "other half" as the Garden of Eden fable describes. Not some artificial creation that is an abomination at worst and a poor imitation at best in my view. I will choose staying virgin forever if the only alternative was being intimate with an MtF that passes as a woman.

Underlining is mine. *** 1 week ban for trolling ***

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