by Atlantic Isles » Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:52 pm
by The Black Forrest » Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:03 pm
by Big Bad Blue » Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:45 pm
The Black Forrest wrote:It does suck for him.
Not so much the failure of the government. The Russians jailed him for espionage. A simple trade of people isn’t going to satisfy them. Probably more along the lines of pulling back Ukraine support.
I wonder how long before the republicans and the MAGA types blame Biden for his time in jail?
by Atlantic Isles » Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:48 pm
by Atlantic Isles » Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:51 pm
Big Bad Blue wrote:The Black Forrest wrote:It does suck for him.
Not so much the failure of the government. The Russians jailed him for espionage. A simple trade of people isn’t going to satisfy them. Probably more along the lines of pulling back Ukraine support.
I wonder how long before the republicans and the MAGA types blame Biden for his time in jail?
They're way ahead of you.
The business of liberating various Americans who find themselves being held for sundry kinds of ransom overseas is a delicate and essentially dirty job. We do it because, unlike a whole bunch of other nations, we care about our citizens overseas and we have the resources to do something about it when they wind up in the pokey unjustly. But blaming the US government for any of that is like blaming the bank for being robbed or the victim for being raped. That dog don't hunt.
by Big Bad Blue » Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:53 pm
Atlantic Isles wrote:Sure, it might take more to get Russia there, but Jesus, Biden really doesn't seem too torn up about it. Maybe I'm jaded. Maybe not. Either way, the guy would do well to show a bit more emotion. I consider myself liberal/progressive/whatever-you-wanna-call-it on most issues, but Biden really does have a lot of shortcomings, and even though I know he probably isn't directly responsible for the swap, it's hard not to feel some very strong things toward him when nothing I've seen has him seeming genuinely sympathetic or feeling badly toward Mr. Whelan. I blame the Trump administration, too, for his time in jail. They also did not manage to secure his release. There's a lot of blame to go around, I think, and I would favor a much stronger stance taken by the US on the sham that is the Russian judicial (not justice) system.
by Rusozak » Thu Dec 08, 2022 5:59 pm
by Atlantic Isles » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:00 pm
Big Bad Blue wrote:Atlantic Isles wrote:Sure, it might take more to get Russia there, but Jesus, Biden really doesn't seem too torn up about it. Maybe I'm jaded. Maybe not. Either way, the guy would do well to show a bit more emotion. I consider myself liberal/progressive/whatever-you-wanna-call-it on most issues, but Biden really does have a lot of shortcomings, and even though I know he probably isn't directly responsible for the swap, it's hard not to feel some very strong things toward him when nothing I've seen has him seeming genuinely sympathetic or feeling badly toward Mr. Whelan. I blame the Trump administration, too, for his time in jail. They also did not manage to secure his release. There's a lot of blame to go around, I think, and I would favor a much stronger stance taken by the US on the sham that is the Russian judicial (not justice) system.
And that would advance the cause of getting a US citizen out of jail how? There will be time enough for tough talk about Putin's courts and prisons after he gets out, which he will, just not today. And it will be just as ineffective tomorrow, next week or next year as it would be today. If you'd like a picture of what the US would be like under a second administration of the defeated, disgraced, venal, corrupt, criminal former president, take a look at Putin's Russia, Xi's China or Iran under the mullahs.
by The Black Forrest » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:01 pm
Atlantic Isles wrote:Sure, it might take more to get Russia there, but Jesus, Biden really doesn't seem too torn up about it. Maybe I'm jaded. Maybe not. Either way, the guy would do well to show a bit more emotion. I consider myself liberal/progressive/whatever-you-wanna-call-it on most issues, but Biden really does have a lot of shortcomings, and even though I know he probably isn't directly responsible for the swap, it's hard not to feel some very strong things toward him when nothing I've seen has him seeming genuinely sympathetic or feeling badly toward Mr. Whelan. I blame the Trump administration, too, for his time in jail. They also did not manage to secure his release. There's a lot of blame to go around, I think, and I would favor a much stronger stance taken by the US on the sham that is the Russian judicial (not justice) system.
by Drongonia » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:02 pm
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by Atlantic Isles » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:03 pm
Rusozak wrote:An arms trafficker that's supplied the Taliban and Al Qaeda for an irresponsible basketball player, seems like a fair trade. I hope she's grateful.
by The Lone Alliance » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:11 pm
by Atlantic Isles » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:11 pm
by New-Minneapolis » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:14 pm
The Lone Alliance wrote:Brittney Griner was harming Russia more by forcing them to deal with her.
Bad Trade
by Atlantic Isles » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:16 pm
by Nilokeras » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:16 pm
by Picairn » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:22 pm
by New-Minneapolis » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:25 pm
by Picairn » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:26 pm
Atlantic Isles wrote:That's the other portion of this, I think trading Whelan for Bout would be a much fairer deal.
by Concejos Unidos » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:29 pm
Nilokeras wrote:I really don't have much sympathy for Whelan. Given the independent corroboration that's done by the BBC his story seems like your bog standard 'global security' private intelligence guy who made a career schmoozing with contacts in Russia/collecting info for his employer. He was probably in the ledger most governments keep of people who are obviously spying but who they just keep tabs on because the benefit to arresting them isn't outweighed by the cost of blowing his cover and causing the people he was schmoozing with to scatter.
The occupational hazard of course is that one day your name might get called when the FSB needs to grab an American or you might get sloppy, either of which might have happened.
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Why are you afraid of the idea of the great roman republic ? Are you homophobic?
by Parai Hambriven » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:30 pm
by Tangatarehua » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:41 pm
Parai Hambriven wrote:I'm so done with the current government. I mean, I've been done since before the current administration came into power, but a woman incriminated on petty weed charges got traded for a murderer? How can literally anybody be this stupid?
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by Picairn » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:45 pm
Tangatarehua wrote:And that doesn't even touch on the fact that if the US are going to make a deal for such a character then surely Paul Whelan is much more deserving of being part of that exchange.
Not that there's any shortage of reasons to dislike him, surely this demonstrates how much Joe Biden needs to be put out to pasture in 2024.
by Drongonia » Thu Dec 08, 2022 6:47 pm
Picairn wrote:Tangatarehua wrote:And that doesn't even touch on the fact that if the US are going to make a deal for such a character then surely Paul Whelan is much more deserving of being part of that exchange.
Not that there's any shortage of reasons to dislike him, surely this demonstrates how much Joe Biden needs to be put out to pasture in 2024.
Russia insists to have a spy for Whelan. How are you gonna answer to that, since you are supposedly a better negotiator than Biden?
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