by Witchcraft and Sorcery » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:24 pm
by Varanius » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:35 pm
Angeloid Astraea wrote:I can't think of anyone that creates controversy out of nothing better than you!
Excidium Planetis wrote:Yeah, if you could enlighten me as to why you're such an asshole, that would be great.
Koth wrote:Vara is such a dedicated hater, it's impressive
Mlakhavia wrote:Vara isn't a gameplay personality, he's a concentrated ball of spite
by Laudesia » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:36 pm
by Triseria » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:40 pm
by Haruhi Japan » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:55 pm
by Witchcraft and Sorcery » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:14 pm
Haruhi Japan wrote:When did they remove TCALS? I started playing the game in early 2020 and I don't remember this being a thing.
by New Makasta » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:34 pm
by The Orwell Society » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:20 pm
The Orwell Society
Straight Male | Political Alignment: Centrist leaning conservative | NSGP Alignment: Independent | Proud Wellspringer, join The Wellspring today!A vision without action is just a daydream
by Thorn1000 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:27 pm
Varanius wrote:I think it’s especially worth re-emphasizing that newer players will have an absolutely horrid time attempting to climb anywhere substantial on the leaderboard without TCALS
walrus wrote:Life is a zero-sum game. The lower I make the happiness of children, the higher my happiness rises
by The Atlae Isles » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:30 pm
Thorn1000 wrote:That being said, I had to beg people to get rid of the CTE legendaries that comprise 11 of the 12 most expensive legendaries for Season 2 (save only Testlandia). It was incredibly unfun/not engaging/downright painful to not be able to legitimately pull any of these cards due to the odds of pulling them being so much lower than any other card. In a roundabout way, the only reason I was able to finish my project at all was through the generosity of people like The Atlae Isles who did get to benefit from TCALS and subsequently had several copies on hand of the card I needed.
by Fhaengshia » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:15 pm
by Noahs Second Country » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:23 am
maybe it should only be triggered on auctions above 100 bank, which would effectively be a fee for starting one. Also maybe it could be ratelimited to maybe 1 pull a minute or something to ensure that there aren't a flood of them? Idk, just throwing a possible nerf out there.
the world in which TCALS and MV inflation both existed was less flawed than the world in which neither TCALS nor inflation existed
Fhaengshia wrote:I recognise that as someone in the top 10, who benefitted from TCALS for almost a year, I would have a biased perspective. But it was the much more recent mv change that boosted me from 35/36th place up to a peak of 6th (before Feu de Glace revived and Giovanniland reinflated). Estimating my mv by subtracting cards I found in pull events or traded from players who found cards in pull events, then I would still be over 40k (instead of ~71k). I have spent a ridiculous amount of bank collecting and boosting the value of selected legendary cards as the most consistently active member of the Cardtel. If I went up multiple ranks from inflation being nerfed, I don’t think it would be incorrect to say I would go up ranks if cards from TCALS magically *poofed*. I am not saying I want that, I know it won’t happen, it would hurt my collections as well. But I was a newcomer who missed the most overpowered parts of TCALS and grinded my way to where I am today. One other point on this “stagnancy”, cards is the most dynamic stat there is in the game (arguably tied with endorsements). If you were to look at the places the top 10 have inscribed on their cards, you would not be able to tell the correct order as inscription happened over a week and multiple people moved up and down many places. There aren’t any reasonable arguments about stagnancy in other stats (besides the ones with maximums, like was fixed recently for recreational drug use). If someone higher than you is grinding just as hard, then they’ll stay there. The argument only makes sense for a tiny majority of players, a handful. And Giovanniland has shown that the podium is within reach even without having a high mv TCALS card.
This is wrong. This would help active players, not new players. Those with the most puppets, and speedy pack generation will benefit the most. This is a pure script arms race and puppet management. The poor/new will benefit as much as they did with inflation, that is a tiny fraction of how much the active established players will achieve. The only new players this will help are those like Thorn who use the methods of the elite already. These players are set to rise the leaderboard anyway. Furthermore, setting a requirement of hundreds of bank to host would cut out many players and make it more difficult for the better aspects TCALS was used for (eg. reçu’s gifs, europeian regional collections).
A new Security Council resolution type: “Commemorate: A resolution to celebrate and respect a former nation” - valid for cte nations that have a trading card.
A passed commemoration would make that nation’s cards appear at a rate as if the nation had not ceased to exist. It is limited in scope, uses the already existing voting infrastructure, and it’s not like the sc is too busy.
There have been other community events over the history of cards - but none of them actually encouraged working together the way that pull events did.
Westinor wrote:Who knew the face of Big Farma could be the greatest hero of the Cards Proleteriat?
Honeydewistania wrote:Such spunk and arrogance that he welcomes the brigade of hatred!
by Coffin-Breathe » Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:56 am
by Doge Tax Collector » Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:08 am
by Galiantus III » Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:11 am
Frisbeeteria wrote:For some reason I have a mental image of a dolphin, trying to organize a new pod of his fellow dolphins to change the course of a nuclear sub. It's entertaining, I'll give ya that.
Ballotonia wrote:Testing is for sissies. The actual test is to see how many people complain when any change is made ;)
by Witchcraft and Sorcery » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:21 pm
Fhaengshia wrote:Helping new players
This is wrong. This would help active players, not new players. Those with the most puppets, and speedy pack generation will benefit the most. This is a pure script arms race and puppet management. The poor/new will benefit as much as they did with inflation, that is a tiny fraction of how much the active established players will achieve. The only new players this will help are those like Thorn who use the methods of the elite already. These players are set to rise the leaderboard anyway. Furthermore, setting a requirement of hundreds of bank to host would cut out many players and make it more difficult for the better aspects TCALS was used for (eg. reçu’s gifs, europeian regional collections)
Fhaengshia wrote:Solution?
OP mentioned the core of this thread is that there needs to be a way for the community to work together to pull rare cards.
An idea I have is probably a bit much to ask from admin for, but here goes.
A new Security Council resolution type: “Commemorate: A resolution to celebrate and respect a former nation” - valid for cte nations that have a trading card.
A passed commemoration would make that nation’s cards appear at a rate as if the nation had not ceased to exist. It is limited in scope, uses the already existing voting infrastructure, and it’s not like the sc is too busy.
by Vylixan » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:31 pm
Witchcraft and Sorcery wrote:Thanks everyone for the feedback and support on this.
I will begin by pointing out to some of the criticism of the ideas in this thread (looking at you, coffin-breathe) is that the goal of this thread is NOT just to argue that TCALS should come back - there were legitimate reasons for its removal and while I personally do not agree with them and think it should be back, especially in light of the recent changes, I don't want to exclusively operate under that assumption. I rather would use it as a jumping-off point for ideas on how to solve a specific problem. After the most abusive part of it was patched out, that is, being able to save up packs and then do a self-pull-event for a few minutes like Noah often did, TCALS provided a way for people to work together and give players a chance to pull the card and solved a potentially major issue for players with all kind of different ranks and goals that currently seems poised to rear its head.Fhaengshia wrote:Helping new players
This is wrong. This would help active players, not new players. Those with the most puppets, and speedy pack generation will benefit the most. This is a pure script arms race and puppet management. The poor/new will benefit as much as they did with inflation, that is a tiny fraction of how much the active established players will achieve. The only new players this will help are those like Thorn who use the methods of the elite already. These players are set to rise the leaderboard anyway. Furthermore, setting a requirement of hundreds of bank to host would cut out many players and make it more difficult for the better aspects TCALS was used for (eg. reçu’s gifs, europeian regional collections)
I would clarify that players like Thorn are exactly the type of player I'm talking about. When I talk about "new players," I'm talking about new card players legitimately interested in doing what it takes to climb the rankings or complete large collections. A lot of those of us who started during the TCALS era followed much the same path, only it was far easier for us to make a name for ourselves at the time. I would even contend that part of the reason why we don't see more players like Thorn these days is precisely due to this.Fhaengshia wrote:Solution?
OP mentioned the core of this thread is that there needs to be a way for the community to work together to pull rare cards.
An idea I have is probably a bit much to ask from admin for, but here goes.
A new Security Council resolution type: “Commemorate: A resolution to celebrate and respect a former nation” - valid for cte nations that have a trading card.
A passed commemoration would make that nation’s cards appear at a rate as if the nation had not ceased to exist. It is limited in scope, uses the already existing voting infrastructure, and it’s not like the sc is too busy.
I... don't know that this entirely helps solve the problem, but it's an interesting point. Especially when we think about older seasons, I don't know that it would solve the core problem. Old-season cards are still extremely rare at non-CTE levels, albeit more attainable. Still, I like the idea of having a way to "rate-up" certain cards for periods of time. Perhaps...
... actually, it's just given me another idea. In my time away from NS I became very involved with Genshin Impact, and cards is, in many ways, a gacha game where whales spend silly amounts of time instead of money trying to get the cards they want. In Genshin, just like gacha games pretty much across the board, characters and their gear have "rate-up" banners where their pull rate is massively increased for a specific period of time. These are announced in advance and last a finite amount of time before either disappearing or returning to their normal pull rates. Players will often save up resources for weeks or months to pull for the character they want.
I think you probably see where I'm going with this. Perhaps the same could be done with cards: every so often, different cards could be selected to be rated up and appear more often in packs for a set period of time while other cards retain their normal pull rate. A setup like this could also retain some of the features of pull events - more players active means the chance of spawning is better or something like that.
Card Rallies
once a month (or more often) WA nations can pay, say 10 bank (amounts are just an idea)
to elect a card, or number of cards, say 10 ,that have an increased chance of being pulled in a short period for higher chances. (I prefer this to be a short period where the chance is increased, gives it a real event feeling instead of a whole month or so, also makes it more of a real goal)
I'd also propose cards get excluded for a period after they have been selected to prevent repeats
What this will do is create a community event in which people can rally others to pick the same cards, compare it to people campaigning for WA or SC things, a sink for bank to be lost, and a way to still be able to pull cards that are hard to get, like CTE's, ex-nations, or legendaries, older seasons, and in the end it creates an event where people can pull the cards.
It might be fun to also add other elements to this, like the chance goes up if more people join in, and/or it goes up if more people pull the cards (akin to the classic pull events).
Downsides would be that it would still favour people with lot's of farms, I have some ideas there how to fix that but nothing concrete.
Upside is that it would be still be really limited compared to the old pull events.
by Witchcraft and Sorcery » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:45 pm
by 1st level of hell » Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:07 pm
Galiantus III wrote: Basically, we'd get some control over the number of copies of cards, just at a cost. Importantly, it means practically anyone could lend aid to help with anyone else's collection, simply by donating packs to help increase the number of available copies.
by Oofery » Tue Nov 29, 2022 11:32 pm
Fhaengshia wrote:Helping new players
This is wrong. This would help active players, not new players. Those with the most puppets, and speedy pack generation will benefit the most. This is a pure script arms race and puppet management. The poor/new will benefit as much as they did with inflation, that is a tiny fraction of how much the active established players will achieve. The only new players this will help are those like Thorn who use the methods of the elite already. These players are set to rise the leaderboard anyway. Furthermore, setting a requirement of hundreds of bank to host would cut out many players and make it more difficult for the better aspects TCALS was used for (eg. reçu’s gifs, europeian regional collections).
Fhaengshia wrote:Community aspect
Months before TCALS was removed, card organisations were dead, the discord was basically as well. I know this was partly due to “s2 fatigue”, but this was mid 2021, only the halfway mark into s2. Adding something that does what TCALS did might help in the future, especially if seasons aren’t so far between, but it’s not a magic bullet. Most players wax and wane in activity and just like anywhere on this game, entropy will kick in with more inactivity inevitable, and we’ll see the same personal abuses that happened in the lead up to TCALS’ demise.
by The Atlae Isles » Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:08 am
1st level of hell wrote:Galiantus III wrote: Basically, we'd get some control over the number of copies of cards, just at a cost. Importantly, it means practically anyone could lend aid to help with anyone else's collection, simply by donating packs to help increase the number of available copies.
But the community actually has already control over the number of copies available; low-owners are rare, because so many copies were junked (often even automatically) by players, not because so few were issued. I remember statements like 'I junk every card below epic' or 'below a certain bid value' more than once, and also many bids at JV or even below for cards. So, if the community wants to change this, players shouldn´t junk so many cards for bank, than enough should be available. And maybe farmers, especially the 'big ones' should check their farms on a at least somehow regular base to look for bids (which many of them dont do), thus blocking existing copies.
As for 'higher cards', those are more seldom and sometimes expensive and hard to get, and this is okay; otherwise there would be no reason for a rarity after all.
by Narvatus » Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:33 am
by Giovanniland » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:22 pm
Narvatus wrote:There is also a more indirect effect regarding low-owner cards that does not often seem to be considered, and while likely to be most pronounced with TCALS, could be true with any form of pull event in which the time restraints are tight: if my memory serves me correctly, cards were often not immediately junked during the event, in an effort to open as many packs as fast as possible within the time constraints of the pull event. Combine this lack of junking with the increased number of farmers operating during the event, and the chances of such a low-owner CTE card making it through, while still low, are enhanced.
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