The Problem with Andrew Tate (and Incel Radicalization)

[Queen Yuno]

Andrew Tate claims that this is all part of an online "persona"? Dear god. What happened to our common sense of right and wrong? He's horrifying. But it's more horrifying that he has followers. This is not "free speech." This is terrorism. And it needs to be rooted out.

Thanks everyone for all your ideas as to how to root it out. Don't have time to read all comments right now but those of you brainstorming are doing good.

I saw these comments on the Washington Post and after with them

Abusers are prevalent enough, they surely don’t need this nutcase urging them on. I just witnessed again the devastation of a woman beaten to near death, fortunately being nursed back to health. The scariest part of this man’s positions is that he finds women willing to be doormats-subservient and that he has millions of folks watching his media. The lack of human progress sometimes boggles my mind.

"Among videos that gained traction was one in which he advised his followers to “slap, slap, grab, choke” women in the bedroom and another in which he said he dates 18- and 19-year-olds because it’s easier to leave an “imprint” on them." These two lines from the article are frightening. I experienced domestic violence in my late teens and early twenties and at 64 am still dealing with the "imprint" it left on me. It isnt pretty.

I would remind those who say the Washington Post is giving him a platform by discussing him, the fact that it’s on the front page lets parents know what is going on on their children’s computers. If I were a parent I would certainly be checking and monitoring what my children are able to view.

Good comments.

Also this was a Popular Teachers thread from Reddit. I hope this further demonstrates the social contagion and dangers of Male Radicalization on Social Media, it screws with hardworking women

The rise of Andrew Tate is ruining my freshman boys
Policy & Politics
Have y’all heard of a sexist, misogynistic, disgusting excuse of human being known as Andrew Tate?

Well, I promise you all your middle school & high school boys have & they’re addicted to his content. Just this week I had to have 6 convos with families about their sons saying shit like “women are inferior to men” “women belong in the kitchen Ms____”.

Not only are they making these misogynistic claims in class but are literally refusing to do assignments if it’s sourced from a woman….I had three boys refuse to read an article by a female author because “women should only be housewives”. But when I say “I’m a teacher and here teaching you” the cognitive dissonance kicks in and they start saying “yah but teaching is a woman’s job”…??!?

5/6 parents (all mothers) were mortified when I discussed their comments. The other 1 dad said “we’ll he isn’t wrong”. 2 are immigrant mothers and they cried on the phone when I shared a video of Andrew Tate that their sons kept referencing & translated the content to them. And this particular videos was talking about his webcaming “business” (ie human trafficking women).

Y’all. It’s been only 2 weeks of school & these young boys are losing it. I’ve never heard such vitriol from young boys since this Andrew Tate guy came on the scene.

This rise of incel and misogynistic rhetoric is terrifying.

[Sordhau]

Never heard of this clown until recently but he sounds like a troglodyte.

[Stellar Colonies]

I never heard about Andrew Tate until a couple days ago.

But about "incels", the best way would probably be delicately trying to help them first, ideological deprogramming and such, since being automatically combative towards them and treating them all as a terroristic monolith just pushes the ones which can be pulled out more into a corner and makes a reactive lashing out more likely.

Also, would be worth trying to figure out some societal causes as to why incels are popping up...at worst, the reasons why male incels specifically are developing could be related to other male issues such as dropping educational rates and higher successful suicide rates.

[Queen Yuno]

Most everyone on this Earth has a mother that took care of them to some extent. For the men where this is true, it is nothing a good repremand from their mother won't fix. They displease momma enough to turn away from them, and that will probably cut deeply enough to make them reconsider and grovel for their good graces again.

If that worked then moms won't be enduring so much shit from ungrateful kids or middle aged adults still living in their moms basement.) That's not going to work if these Misogynistic Redpill Manosphere Brainwash Propagandas say "exploit your mom and don't listen to her, she's just a woman with a woman brain. Your mom belongs in the kitchen." And the misogynistic indoctrination propaganda got to a kid YOUNG (when even young adults are getting influenced? Kids are even more malleable and act out against their parents.) What if the Reprimands don't work, the kids would rather absorb Andrew Tate and roll their eyes at their parents/moms? Also lots of Westerners don't spank their kids either. The future is going to SUCK for the girls growing up. RIP.

[Queen Yuno]

Never heard of this clown until recently but he sounds like a troglodyte.

I never heard about Andrew Tate until a couple days ago.

But about "incels", the best way would probably be delicately trying to help them first, ideological deprogramming and such, since being automatically combative towards them and treating them all as a terroristic monolith just pushes the ones which can be pulled out more into a corner and makes a reactive lashing out more likely.

Also, would be worth trying to figure out some societal causes as to why incels are popping up...at worst, the reasons why male incels specifically are developing could be related to other male issues such as dropping educational rates and higher successful suicide rates.

Mhm

He's been around for half a year with millions of views. You guys haven't been on the popular apps that kids and Gen Z use.

I've been hearing his name often for past few months from male friends IRL and online. So yeah, it's been demoralizing, yup. I tried avoiding but now I feel more comfortable speaking out since he's recently banned from Tiktok and most platforms (otherwise I'd be reluctant to say his name and give him more Impressions.)

And yeah! what's happening with the Dropping education rates.
Though male and female suicide rates are around the same, female rates are higher but male rates have more "success" (unfortunate.) I think these Andrew Tate videos, and redpill philosophies, are increasing the suicides.

[Sordhau]

Andrew Tate claims that this is all part of an online "persona"? Dear god. What happened to our common sense of right and wrong? He's horrifying. But it's more horrifying that he has followers. This is not "free speech." This is terrorism. And it needs to be rooted out.

Thanks everyone for all your ideas as to how to root it out. Don't have time to read all comments right now but those of you brainstorming are doing good.

I saw these comments on the Washington Post and after with them

Abusers are prevalent enough, they surely don’t need this nutcase urging them on. I just witnessed again the devastation of a woman beaten to near death, fortunately being nursed back to health. The scariest part of this man’s positions is that he finds women willing to be doormats-subservient and that he has millions of folks watching his media. The lack of human progress sometimes boggles my mind.

"Among videos that gained traction was one in which he advised his followers to “slap, slap, grab, choke” women in the bedroom and another in which he said he dates 18- and 19-year-olds because it’s easier to leave an “imprint” on them." These two lines from the article are frightening. I experienced domestic violence in my late teens and early twenties and at 64 am still dealing with the "imprint" it left on me. It isnt pretty.

I would remind those who say the Washington Post is giving him a platform by discussing him, the fact that it’s on the front page lets parents know what is going on on their children’s computers. If I were a parent I would certainly be checking and monitoring what my children are able to view.

Good comments.

Also this was a Popular Teachers thread from Reddit. I hope this further demonstrates the social contagion and dangers of Male Radicalization on Social Media, it screws with hardworking women

The rise of Andrew Tate is ruining my freshman boys
Policy & Politics
Have y’all heard of a sexist, misogynistic, disgusting excuse of human being known as Andrew Tate?

Well, I promise you all your middle school & high school boys have & they’re addicted to his content. Just this week I had to have 6 convos with families about their sons saying shit like “women are inferior to men” “women belong in the kitchen Ms____”.

Not only are they making these misogynistic claims in class but are literally refusing to do assignments if it’s sourced from a woman….I had three boys refuse to read an article by a female author because “women should only be housewives”. But when I say “I’m a teacher and here teaching you” the cognitive dissonance kicks in and they start saying “yah but teaching is a woman’s job”…??!?

5/6 parents (all mothers) were mortified when I discussed their comments. The other 1 dad said “we’ll he isn’t wrong”. 2 are immigrant mothers and they cried on the phone when I shared a video of Andrew Tate that their sons kept referencing & translated the content to them. And this particular videos was talking about his webcaming “business” (ie human trafficking women).

Y’all. It’s been only 2 weeks of school & these young boys are losing it. I’ve never heard such vitriol from young boys since this Andrew Tate guy came on the scene.

This rise of incel and misogynistic rhetoric is terrifying.

Inceldom is a social disease and it's propagation as an ideology is both horrifying and utterly reactionary. It represents the last dying gasp of misogynistic thinking, lashing out as the toxic and regressive mentality that it is in a desperate attempt to convert new and impressionable minds to it's vile cause. People like Andrew Tate need to be forcefully muzzled and the spread of their hatred suppressed to prevent children from being exposed to sickening ideologies like Incel mentality. There's no room for this kind bigoted thinking anymore. Feminism didn't fight tooth and nail to put women on an equal footing for men only for a bunch of sexless losers to try and reverse all those gains. The very real issues facing men in the modern age have nothing to do with Feminism no matter what Incel's try to claim and Incels have very demonstrably proven they don't want to fix these issues but rather just want to take away women's rights out of pure misogynistic spite.

Inceldom is a fucking cancer and it needs to be rigorously suppressed.

[Saiwania]

What if the Reprimands don't work, the kids would rather absorb Andrew Tate and roll their eyes at their parents/moms? Also lots of Westerners don't spank their kids either. The future is going to SUCK for the girls growing up. RIP.

So it means sometimes kicking family out for a time if it isn't actually punishing them, making sure that the consequences actually hurt them enough. Parenting is just a lost art in most of developed world. There is no right way to go about it, but no shortage of ways it can go wrong.

Carrot and stick usually works.

[Ifreann]

Never heard of this clown until recently but he sounds like a troglodyte.

In addition to being a grifter and sex criminal, Andrew "Cobra" Tate is a poet. He's written quite a few poems detailing the experiences of students of martial arts under Master Po, a character which seems to be a stand-in for Tate's father. From what I understand it's all pretty cringe.

[Saiwania]

He's written quite a few poems detailing the experiences of students of martial arts under Master Po, a character which seems to be a stand-in for Tate's father. From what I understand it's all pretty cringe.

Is this Master Po the one from the 1970s show Kung Fu? I'm surprised he knows of it if it was from way before his time. I came across that live action western by sheer accident, and because I like old stuff with realism/grit with less special effects so far as action scenes go.

[Nipponkyo]

I have never heard of Andrew Tate...

But I do agree that incels and their toxic mindsets are a problem that society needs to find a solution for.

[Stellar Colonies]

...

And yeah! what's happening with the Dropping education rates.

The male college crisis is not just in enrollment, but completion (Brookings)

Probably due to some structural issues, overcompensation and such:

National hiring experiments reveal 2:1 faculty preference for women on STEM tenure track (PNAS)

The issue is so drastic that it's allegedly given rise to an unprecedented phenomenon nicknamed "golden penis syndrome" in more tabloid-esque circles, in which men who are outnumbered by women in college environments have the privilege of being picky about who they want to pair up with and women are forced to compete for a partner.

Though male and female suicide rates are around the same, female rates are higher but male rates have more "success" (unfortunate.) I think these Andrew Tate videos, and redpill philosophies, are increasing the suicides.

Increase in Suicide Mortality in the United States, 1999–2018

In 2018, the suicide rate for males was 3.7 times the rate for females (22.8 and 6.2, respectively).

[Ifreann]

He's written quite a few poems detailing the experiences of students of martial arts under Master Po, a character which seems to be a stand-in for Tate's father. From what I understand it's all pretty cringe.

Is this Master Po the one from the 1970s show Kung Fu?

Not that I'm aware of.

[Saiwania]

I've been in a college setting before and probably was outnumbered by women. My experience is that it doesn't matter at all. They're not any more likely to hit on you if your approachability and social skills aren't up to par. They can find men outside of school if it isn't there.

If you're the male, you're expected still to make the first move by default. You won't be doing any of that however, if you're too worried about grades and you want to keep good standing so as to not waste tuition or get kicked out- if you have tunnel vision and are off in your own limited world. Everyone focused more on their own problems than in wanting to bother/compete over you.

Might be very different perhaps, if you have extracurriculars or are in a club/honor society. If you also participate more like you're supposed to in networking.

[Salus Maior]

Yeah, there's nothing really redeemable about Tate. He's an asshole taking advantage of men who feel dejected and makes them cough up like 50 bucks a month to learn basic financial tips. Among everything else that's already been said.

[Nipponkyo]

Yeah, there's nothing really redeemable about Tate. He's an asshole taking advantage of men who feel dejected and makes them cough up like 50 bucks a month to learn basic financial tips. Among everything else that's already been said.

I think he is also pro-Putin and has defended Russian atrocities in Ukraine.

[Imperial States of Duotona]

I think the reason Tate has had as much influence on people as he has is that he is really good at grabbing attention. He does this through playing into takes and stereotypes (probably unintentionally) which gives his platform attention. Whilst most people just pointed and laughed, a concerning amount bought his incel, sigma male rhetoric due to how many people spoke about him.

I did the most powerful thing in this scenario. I did not care. If nobody else cared, then I doubt he would've had as much of an influence that he does, even now he has been banned from a lot of platforms.

[Korwin]

Haven't shed a single tear about a runaway rapist and sex-slaver whose entire grift is to teach teenage boys how to kidnap, torture, and rape women. His damage is pretty severe as it is now. A lot of young boys watch his stuff and have been corrupted to bleat "top G" and "buGO'ee" at the top of their lungs whenever they see a girl.

[Saiwania]

Things are bad now but it could get better. The first 2 people to have been brought to jail over an NFT rug pull, has happened relatively recently. The IRS followed the money and crypto blockchain, and uncovered enough IP/bank information to unmask them. Soon people will think twice before taking investors' money and disappearing without any efforts, if they're making an NFT or new coin.

[Kathol Rift]

Never heard of this clown until recently but he sounds like a troglodyte.

In addition to being a grifter and sex criminal, Andrew "Cobra" Tate is a poet. He's written quite a few poems detailing the experiences of students of martial arts under Master Po, a character which seems to be a stand-in for Tate's father. From what I understand it's all pretty cringe.

Really? I thought I remembered seeing a video where he went on a rant about how he couldn't read because reading was for people with "slow brains." I suppose that just adds to the list of hypocrisies though.

[Kerwa]

I do think the incel thing is vastly overstated. For every incel there’s probably like a dozen Deanos, it’s just incels are invariably college educated and spend a lot of time whining on the internet which gives them overexposure and makes it seem more than it is. (The same could be said for a lot of things TBH),

I don’t think there is a college crisis for men either. Anyone can go to college these days so it’s lost it’s value as a positional good - unless you do medicine, law architecture or something. And it really is a female centered activity anyway these days and of little general interest unless you want to learn something specific. Moreover nobody likes pub quiz bores in any case. There are a tonnes of better ways to spend four years.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Social media recommendation systems are designed to drive people towards content that gets lots of engagement because that means people will spend more time there. That can have some less than socially optimal results, and so the "do something" impulse is understandable. What's important is that people think very hard about precisely what it is they want to be done and the mechanisms through which they will demand companies do it. Companies more actively policing the content always runs the risk of them getting rid of stuff you like but is controversial to other people, or using shitty automated methods in lieu of actual people and turning the whole into an unpredictable nightmare for creators and creating opportunities for people to abuse the systems.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

he couldn't read because reading was for people with "slow brains."

what??????

[Vivolkha]

You now, sometimes my self-imposed isolation from much of social media and society at large almost seems like a good thing.

If I know Andrew Tate for anything, is for his horrendous music, pro-Putin and pro-invasion comments, and more recently because of his controversial opinions that I don't know in detail because I couldn't care any less.

And yes, I'm male, I'm 22, I'm a virgin and I've never had a girl love me (romantically). So what. Misogyny will compound the problem, not solve it.

As for what to do with this kind of people... two things, in my opinion. For Andrew Tate and similar personalities, invisibilize them. Force companies to manipulate their algorithms so that this type of content is constantly pushed into obscurity. Be more proactive in deleting accounts (and transparent, to avoid the arbitrary decision-making that is all too common in social media). Hell, block webpages if you need to.

Like, come on, China can manipulate content on social media on a massive level to consistently favor the CCP narrative and invisibilize all others. It's not like something like what I'm suggesting is unfeasable.

As for the broader "incel" movement, they're terrorists and should be viewed and treated as such.

I feel like incels in general are a symptom of a broader societal problem resulting from recent lifestyle changes, but personally I can't come up with a good solution to that. Not one that respects human rights, at least.

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

Andrew Tate and people like him are a particular brand of evil. they see angry, vulnerable people and empower and embolden them merely to profit off of that anger, regardless of the harm it causes to people and society as a whole. they represent the worst effects of capitalism and belong in a deep circle of hell. I wouldn't solely blame them, though. the incels choose to believe in people like him; any fool could tell Tate's ideas are stupid by thinking about them for more than a few seconds. incels allow themselves to be taken advantage of because they don't want to reflect on their problems. people like Tate give them another option: take their anger out on society. it's society's fault, not theirs. it's an enticing but largely incorrect idea.

[Vivolkha]

Andrew Tate and people like him are a particular brand of evil. they see angry, vulnerable people and empower and embolden them merely to profit off of that anger, regardless of the harm it causes to people and society as a whole. they represent the worst effects of capitalism and belong in a deep circle of hell. I wouldn't solely blame them, though. the incels choose to believe in people like him; any fool could tell Tate's ideas are stupid by thinking about them for more than a few seconds. incels allow themselves to be taken advantage of because they don't want to reflect on their problems. people like Tate give them another option: take their anger out on society. it's society's fault, not theirs. it's an enticing but largely incorrect idea.

Even in an anti-capitalist society, I still think Andrew Tate wannabes would pop up all over the place. Also, without legitimizing their ideas, maybe we should look into why these "incels" are so angry (pre-radicalization). I believe there's definitely a genuine social issue here, that can be examined without being obfuscated by the mysogynistic terrorists it spawned.