by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 1:56 pm
by Uiiop » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:03 pm
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:06 pm
Uiiop wrote:IIRC This is too bloggy for acceptability.
Also you presume there isn't an genuine anti-western foreign audience here and ignores how NATO mostly takes instructions from America.
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:08 pm
Uiiop wrote:IIRC This is too bloggy for acceptability.
Also you presume there isn't an genuine anti-western foreign audience here and ignores how NATO mostly takes instructions from America.
by Uiiop » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:13 pm
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:Uiiop wrote:IIRC This is too bloggy for acceptability.
Also you presume there isn't an genuine anti-western foreign audience here and ignores how NATO mostly takes instructions from America.
Why are there so many Americans who are complaining of being censored? If America were really in charge of all this, our votes would actually count.
by Sordhau » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:15 pm
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:19 pm
Sordhau wrote:The United States of America has been a force for evil throughout it's entire existence.
by Uiiop » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:26 pm
by Grande Germania » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:38 pm
by Alcala-Cordel » Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:43 pm
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:04 pm
Grande Germania wrote:As a European, I can say that this does not make sense, because, surprise, the United States was founded by European slavers, and has maintained slavery even after the British abolished it.
The original nucleus of the USA were English colonies, so if you say that ALL Europeans are imperialists you are very wrong, indeed, most of the current European countries have been victims of imperialism (e.g. Poland, Ukraine, Italy until 1861 etc.).
Continuing to dismantle this crazy discourse, Europe is practically under the US Dominion, just think of the numerous US military bases on European territory, also counting that European countries have a MUCH weaker army than the United States, since they do not invest too much in the military (although some extra military spending these days would be convenient, but the US is far too militaristic) I prefer to focus on things more useful to the population, such as public health and guaranteed, which I think you don't have.
In summary, try to look beyond the colonial past of Europe, which on the other hand is repudiated by the Europeans themselves, Europe has changed from the 19th century to today, you know?
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:18 pm
Alcala-Cordel wrote:So many other countries would be more developed/stable if it weren't for the US and its illegal wars. In terms of influence the legacy of the US is that of overthrowing democratically elected South American leaders, massacring Middle Easterners, spraying poison on Vietnamese forests, letting its companies outsource slave labor worldwide...
by Grande Germania » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:22 pm
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:Grande Germania wrote:As a European, I can say that this does not make sense, because, surprise, the United States was founded by European slavers, and has maintained slavery even after the British abolished it.
The original nucleus of the USA were English colonies, so if you say that ALL Europeans are imperialists you are very wrong, indeed, most of the current European countries have been victims of imperialism (e.g. Poland, Ukraine, Italy until 1861 etc.).
Continuing to dismantle this crazy discourse, Europe is practically under the US Dominion, just think of the numerous US military bases on European territory, also counting that European countries have a MUCH weaker army than the United States, since they do not invest too much in the military (although some extra military spending these days would be convenient, but the US is far too militaristic) I prefer to focus on things more useful to the population, such as public health and guaranteed, which I think you don't have.
In summary, try to look beyond the colonial past of Europe, which on the other hand is repudiated by the Europeans themselves, Europe has changed from the 19th century to today, you know?
"What, then, is the whole system of Europe towards America but an atrocious and insulting tyranny? One hemisphere of the earth, separated from the other by wide seas, having different climates, different soils, different modes of production, and its own local relations and duties, is made subservient to the laws, the regulations, the wars and passions of the other." -- Thomas Jefferson
Tell us this...
Why would Thomas Jefferson make an alliance with Abolitionists like Paine, unless the Tories were the aggressive pro-slavery faction and the Founders were anywhere from less-slaveryites to outright Abolitionists? The British created and installed plantation slavery long before America ever won its independence.
Why would the open race slavery of Rhodesia and the prison colony of Australia have survived to 1911, whereas millions of American patriots died fighting the Slave Power in the 1860s? No European ever died fighting slavery, except as a private volunteer for the American government.
Among those volunteers was Col. Joseph Weydemeyer, the third man in the Working Men's International after Marx and Engels. Why would the Marxists you all claim to admire sign their very blood for America's cause if America were really a racist country founded in racism? Does that make Marx a racist now, or simply a man who wanted a better world but failed to predict the consequences of his theories?
What about the campaign slogan of "Build Back Better," which was invented in Europe and repeated by multiple European heads of state at the same time? Why would they be so synchronized, why would U.S. media have more European owners than Americans, with the British disproportionately represented in it?
You seem to forget that Davos and the WEF, which invented the slogan, are in Europe. You also seem to forget that the British are still in charge of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, practicing colonialism as we speak.
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:35 pm
Grande Germania wrote:Debate Proxy 1 wrote:"What, then, is the whole system of Europe towards America but an atrocious and insulting tyranny? One hemisphere of the earth, separated from the other by wide seas, having different climates, different soils, different modes of production, and its own local relations and duties, is made subservient to the laws, the regulations, the wars and passions of the other." -- Thomas Jefferson
Tell us this...
Why would Thomas Jefferson make an alliance with Abolitionists like Paine, unless the Tories were the aggressive pro-slavery faction and the Founders were anywhere from less-slaveryites to outright Abolitionists? The British created and installed plantation slavery long before America ever won its independence.
Why would the open race slavery of Rhodesia and the prison colony of Australia have survived to 1911, whereas millions of American patriots died fighting the Slave Power in the 1860s? No European ever died fighting slavery, except as a private volunteer for the American government.
Among those volunteers was Col. Joseph Weydemeyer, the third man in the Working Men's International after Marx and Engels. Why would the Marxists you all claim to admire sign their very blood for America's cause if America were really a racist country founded in racism? Does that make Marx a racist now, or simply a man who wanted a better world but failed to predict the consequences of his theories?
What about the campaign slogan of "Build Back Better," which was invented in Europe and repeated by multiple European heads of state at the same time? Why would they be so synchronized, why would U.S. media have more European owners than Americans, with the British disproportionately represented in it?
You seem to forget that Davos and the WEF, which invented the slogan, are in Europe. You also seem to forget that the British are still in charge of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, practicing colonialism as we speak.
Too bad for you that most European countries voluntarily abolished slavery in 1815, and what does it mean that no European died fighting slavery? Apart from that it is not true, since serfdom is considered a form of slavery and many European revolutionaries have died to abolish it, and besides, Europeans have not started to finance dictatorships in South America, have they?
And the Europeans didn't use atomic weapons for the first time, did they?
This hatred of Europe, which has not been a threat to US sovereignty since 1803, is horrible.
And Scotland held a referendum to sell whether to leave the UK or not, and won the stay, even in Northern Ireland and Wales most of the population wants to remain part of the UK, so it's not colonialism.
Europe is probably the continent that lost its importance and sovereignty the fastest in history, given that in a few years most European countries have submitted to an external power, which now, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it is only the USA, which limits any European initiative, for here we have to "ask permission" from the American government, which has almost always had profound interference in Europe since the end of the Second World War, you seem like a continte that can transform itself into an empire this?
We do not have capable politicians, we do not have complete sovereignty, we have shameful armies, the only thing in here we are superior to the Americans is freedom, since in Europe (and particularly in Scandinavia) human rights are sacred and no one is even Pleased to eliminate the right to abortion, or to make a coup d'état, right?
by Grande Germania » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:44 pm
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:Grande Germania wrote:Too bad for you that most European countries voluntarily abolished slavery in 1815, and what does it mean that no European died fighting slavery? Apart from that it is not true, since serfdom is considered a form of slavery and many European revolutionaries have died to abolish it, and besides, Europeans have not started to finance dictatorships in South America, have they?
And the Europeans didn't use atomic weapons for the first time, did they?
This hatred of Europe, which has not been a threat to US sovereignty since 1803, is horrible.
And Scotland held a referendum to sell whether to leave the UK or not, and won the stay, even in Northern Ireland and Wales most of the population wants to remain part of the UK, so it's not colonialism.
Europe is probably the continent that lost its importance and sovereignty the fastest in history, given that in a few years most European countries have submitted to an external power, which now, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it is only the USA, which limits any European initiative, for here we have to "ask permission" from the American government, which has almost always had profound interference in Europe since the end of the Second World War, you seem like a continte that can transform itself into an empire this?
We do not have capable politicians, we do not have complete sovereignty, we have shameful armies, the only thing in here we are superior to the Americans is freedom, since in Europe (and particularly in Scandinavia) human rights are sacred and no one is even Pleased to eliminate the right to abortion, or to make a coup d'état, right?
Superior in freedom? Really, when you rob your citizenry... erm, subjects of arms? When France was convulsed by mass protests over draconian lockdowns, and beaten bloody when no one dared to do the same against us here? When all the electoral fraud problems we see in America are a million times worse in Britain, with its House of Lords and unelected monarchical head of state? That is systemic bias, hands down.
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:49 pm
by Debate Proxy 1 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:00 pm
Grande Germania wrote:Debate Proxy 1 wrote:Superior in freedom? Really, when you rob your citizenry... erm, subjects of arms? When France was convulsed by mass protests over draconian lockdowns, and beaten bloody when no one dared to do the same against us here? When all the electoral fraud problems we see in America are a million times worse in Britain, with its House of Lords and unelected monarchical head of state? That is systemic bias, hands down.
So here I have to answer point by point:
1) you cannot take two countries, which are very particular in Europe, and expand them as a representation of the whole continent
2) I wonder why about 40 cases of US police violence against Protestants come to mind.
3) Great Britain is much more democratic than the USA, given that although the head of state is not elected, the House of Commons (which has real power, as in all parliamentary regimes) yes, and consequently is indirectly elected even the prime minister, then yes, is better than your weird undemocratic system of electing the president.
4) no, most of the European countries are republics, and the few remaining monarchies have a long democratic tradition.
5) the European Union guarantees rights, peace, democracy and stability to the whole of Europe, and is an instrument that has allowed us to stop fighting each other and start collaborating for a better future.
by Grande Germania » Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:11 pm
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:Grande Germania wrote:
So here I have to answer point by point:
1) you cannot take two countries, which are very particular in Europe, and expand them as a representation of the whole continent
2) I wonder why about 40 cases of US police violence against Protestants come to mind.
3) Great Britain is much more democratic than the USA, given that although the head of state is not elected, the House of Commons (which has real power, as in all parliamentary regimes) yes, and consequently is indirectly elected even the prime minister, then yes, is better than your weird undemocratic system of electing the president.
4) no, most of the European countries are republics, and the few remaining monarchies have a long democratic tradition.
5) the European Union guarantees rights, peace, democracy and stability to the whole of Europe, and is an instrument that has allowed us to stop fighting each other and start collaborating for a better future.
Let's see... Denmark, monarchy. Spain, monarchy. Sweden, monarchy. Britain, of course a monarchy. Those that are called "republics" still bend to the dictates and interests of foreign monarchies and aristocracies, considering who owns the great majority of European corporations, and which moneyed interests control the European Parliament. I can't remember them all, but I seem to recollect that about half the countries of Europe are aristocratic.
Even so, Europe is about as "democratic" as North Korea is if they can't trust their subjects with arms. I mean, the North Koreans even have three political parties to choose from in their elections. Every tyranny in the world these days calls itself a democracy.
EDIT: Removed reference to Italy because I haven't checked on it recently. I know a king at least survived World War II, although nominally the country calls itself the Republic of Italy.
by Senkaku » Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:14 pm
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:Senkaku wrote:what exactly is a "less-slaveryite"
People who are like those in the border states during the 1860s. They had slaves (and slavery and colonialism is a very hard thing to remove, as the French Revolution shows,) but also saw other slave-owners as competitors who were driving them into ruin, and so they provided limited aid to abolitionists to reduce the spread of slavery. This was in contrast to the slavery expansionists, who were aiming to push slavery upon the North (see Fugitive Slave Laws.)
Before anyone brings up Canada, it's simply that Canada didn't have a cotton-growing climate, whereas the British practiced slavery elsewhere; note the genocide that British colonialists committed against indigenous Americans in Canada around the same time to see how British cultural influence is really the source of every crime that's been unjustly ascribed to America.
It happened in Australia, too, complete with not only murder but actual chains.
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:whereas millions of American patriots died fighting the Slave Power in the 1860s?
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:When France was convulsed by mass protests over draconian lockdowns, and beaten bloody when no one dared to do the same against us here?
If Americans were really in charge, there'd be republics all over Europe by now,
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:Military-industrial complex interests are capable of smashing even totalitarian state apparatuses because they are so central to the State. The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution in China is an excellent example of what happens when the military-industrial complex breaks the compromise with bureaucratic-corporate authority and takes over in its own interest.
Grande Germania wrote:In summary, try to look beyond the colonial past of Europe, which on the other hand is repudiated by the Europeans themselves, Europe has changed from the 19th century to today, you know?
If America were really in charge of all this, our votes would actually count.
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:The break-up of the British Empire, in truth, delivered arms into the hands of indigenous populations to protect their liberties and slowed the spread of colonialism by over a century.
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:If the Pentagon is paying attention,
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:We've been wrongfully and unjustly blamed for crimes actually committed by others.
Since all the America-bashing is coming from foreign places and their admirers
If I am censored this time for my views, then I welcome it: nothing will better underline my case.
by HISPIDA » Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:18 pm
by Senkaku » Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:20 pm
Debate Proxy 1 wrote:
EDIT: Removed reference to Italy because I haven't checked on it recently. I know a king at least survived World War II, although nominally the country calls itself the Republic of Italy.
by The United Penguin Commonwealth » Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:32 pm
The only problem is, there's far too many Europeans to assimilate now, and they've broken down the assimilation system and undermined the very fabric of government in the East Coast states where they concentrate. One may note that European immigrants are everywhere in Hollywood. The problem with European immigration is that it brings way too many bad ideas over from Europe, and that there's way too many of them to assimilate. This has resulted in the gradual displacement of the American government and the rise of a parallel system of European-style government, which since its inception has operated in ways directly contrary to the Constitution.
The Democratic Party leadership then, and the Democratic Party leadership now is engaging in race-baiting to divide and conquer the 99% (a population which includes average, ordinary Republicans and Democrats, I should point out.)
Why is our country starting to look like a Third World country, unless it's because of all the European immigrants who will not assimilate?
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