[LAST CALL] Anthems of Dispute

[Socialist Ancomistan]

[b]Issue:[/b] In celebration of an upcoming national holiday, a teenage music group from southeast @@NAME@@ volunteered to show off a self-composed rendition of the national anthem. The music group’s anthem started out bold and patriotic, but quickly devolved into a dubstep remix featuring raunchy song lyrics that were not within the actual national anthem.

[b]Option 1:[/b] "I find their attempt at a national anthem to be flat-out insulting," you hear @@RANDOMNAME@@, a volunteer worker for @@CAPITAL@@ exclaim. @@HE@@ then takes off @@HIS@@ vest. "I spent all day yesterday picking up litter to keep our cities clean because of how much I love @@NAME@@. While I’m all for freedom of expression, it is obvious that these kids disrespect the work we pour into our nation. Our nation’s founders would not have approved of how foul-mouthed they were either! Any version of the national anthem other than the original should be prohibited."

[b]Fallout:[/b] the national anthem is protected with an everlasting copyright strike

[b]Option 2:[/b] Suddenly, you hear famous rapper Lil’ @@ANIMAL@@ bolt into the room. "Look, I don't see the issue with this anthem at all. An overreach of government’s not something to install" he belts out with his microphone. "These kids didn’t ruin our anthem. They modernized it with lyrics that are relatable to the @@DEMONYM@@s of today! Sure, there were some slightly off-putting vocals. Big deal! If anything, @@NAME@@ should stage a contest over who performs the best modernized rendition of our national anthem. That would be the perfect image of our patriotic nation. And let me tell you, I’ll be the first to sponsor it!”

[b]Fallout:[/b] @@DEMONYM@@ national anthems are a genre unto themselves

[b]Option 3:[/b] "May I add to the discussion, s'il vous plaît?" requests @@RANDOMNAME@@, an orchestral conductor from Galliennes. "The idea of a National Anthem contest est très bien. But we must filter out anything offensive, inappropriate, or just not highbrow enough for the taste of this great nation. A symphonic anthem, composed by a master such as myself, would be magnifique, mais non?"

[b]Fallout:[/b] the national anthem is best performed with a conductor and piano accompaniment

[Baggieland]

I like the idea of "should we modernise our anthem?"

featuring a drugged out @National Animal@ riding a unicycle.

I think this bit is unneccessary and not really connected to modernising a piece of music. I'd cut it.

Option 2, I would remove the Violet references as this issue has nothing to do with religion.

Option 3, I think you do need a "why do we even have an anthem?" option, but I don't get the connection between anthems and work effort. See if you can come up with another reason to do away with it.

[Socialist Ancomistan]

I like the idea of "should we modernise our anthem?"

featuring a drugged out @National Animal@ riding a unicycle.

I think this bit is unneccessary and not really connected to modernising a piece of music. I'd cut it.

Option 2, I would remove the Violet references as this issue has nothing to do with religion.

Option 3, I think you do need a "why do we even have an anthem?" option, but I don't get the connection between anthems and work effort. See if you can come up with another reason to do away with it.

I'll remove the drugged out animal and the Violet reference in the first two issues. Not going to change the third issue since I'm aware there is no connection between work ethic and a National Anthem, and I wanted to make the guy look deranged

[Baggieland]

You need to ban anyone from singing the National Anthem in any way other than how you intended.

"Any version of the national anthem other than the original should be prohibited."

I think that's a clearer way of what you're trying to say here.

I'm still not happy with option 3, nothing wrong with having a deranged speaker, but I still don't get the connection.

[Verdant Haven]

I gotta go with Baggie on this - I don't get the third speaker at all. Neither the idea of an anthem being made up by the underclass as a reason not to work, nor the claim that getting rid of an anthem is somehow going to force people back to work, makes any sense whatsoever. Every position should at least be internally rational, and ideally should give the player some possible reason to select that option.

Also... your "Department" of State, Justice, and Interior are listed as the ones talking to you? Did you mean the secretaries or ministers of those departments?

As I suggested in your Mobile Gambling thread, please do check out the FAQ and How To thread stickied at the top of the GI forum. It has a lot of good information and hints, including proper formatting for the macros.

[Socialist Ancomistan]

O.K I edited option 3 to change the focus from blue collar work to multiculturalism. I also did look at the general information forum

[Australian rePublic]

This isn't disrespecting leader, it's disrespecting the nation

[Socialist Ancomistan]

/bump

Edited the issue for Option 2 to focus more on the nation than on the leader, and also changed "department of" to "secretary of"

[The Ferret Lands]

Issue: A group of teenagers from southeast @Nation Name@ have volunteered to perform a rendition of the National Anthem.

Option 1: "Ban this! Ban that!" your Secretary of State mocked.

Option 2: Your Department of Justice holds a different opinion. "Look, I'm all for freedom of expression, but it's pretty obvious that these kids disrespect our glorious nation. Any version of the national anthem other than the original should be prohibited. "It's what @Nation Name's@ founders would have wanted," she whispers under her breath.

Option 3: "Do we really need a National Anthem?" scoffs your Secretary of Interior. "Think about it for just one second, @Leader@. It's obvious that the National Anthem was composed by a group of hyper-aggressive nationalists who can't even point out other nations like Skandilundia or Bigtopia on a map. Well, guess what! This trickery isn't going to work anymore, and not having a National Anthem would force these rednecks to acknowledge the presence of other nations." "This is the start of a new era!" he yells before being immediately escorted out of office.

1. Fix the macros
2. Just a random group of teenagers? Not like a high school band or some specifically music group?
3. Did they just decide to go and perform in your office? Most national anthems are performed at events (like sports) so you could maybe come up with generic event for them to have performed at to have got the government's attention
4. Most of the issues I've seen use 'Minister of X' as a government official, and so I'd suggest that for Secretary/Department
5.

Ban this! Ban that!" your Secretary of State mocked

I don't quite get this. Why would they be mocking bans when no ban has been suggested yet?
6. Why is the Department of Justice a she? Also what part of that is being whispered and why?
7. Surely the secretary of the Interior is the exact wrong government official to be concerned about other nations. Maybe a diplomatic official?
I also don't buy that removing a national anthem will make citizens 'aknowledge other nations', whatever that even means.
After having said all that, I like it. Keep going!

[Socialist Ancomistan]

1. Fix the macros
2. Just a random group of teenagers? Not like a high school band or some specifically music group?
3. Did they just decide to go and perform in your office? Most national anthems are performed at events (like sports) so you could maybe come up with generic event for them to have performed at to have got the government's attention
4. Most of the issues I've seen use 'Minister of X' as a government official, and so I'd suggest that for Secretary/Department
5.
Ban this! Ban that!" your Secretary of State mocked

I don't quite get this. Why would they be mocking bans when no ban has been suggested yet?
6. Why is the Department of Justice a she? Also what part of that is being whispered and why?
7. Surely the secretary of the Interior is the exact wrong government official to be concerned about other nations. Maybe a diplomatic official?
I also don't buy that removing a national anthem will make citizens 'aknowledge other nations', whatever that even means.
After having said all that, I like it. Keep going!

-Macros have hopefully been fixed

-Added the teenager descriptions to be more specific, and gave them a reason for performing

-Changed “Department Of” to “Ministry Of”

-The Dept. of Justice whispers the part about what she believes the Founding Fathers wanted

-The Sect of State is mocking the Dept. of Justice idea to ban renditions of the National Anthem. I will switch responses 1 and 2 so it makes sense

Also

6. Why is the Department of Justice a she? Also what part of that is being whispered and why?

No offense, but why is the fact that she is a woman, a problem?

[The Ferret Lands]

-Macros have hopefully been fixed

-Added the teenager descriptions to be more specific, and gave them a reason for performing

-Changed “Department Of” to “Ministry Of”

-The Dept. of Justice whispers the part about what she believes the Founding Fathers wanted

-The Sect of State is mocking the Dept. of Justice idea to ban renditions of the National Anthem. I will switch responses 1 and 2 so it makes sense

Also

6. Why is the Department of Justice a she? Also what part of that is being whispered and why?

No offense, but why is the fact that she is a woman, a problem?

viewtopic.php?p=32581709#p32581711
This post has all the macros, it's what I reference

a group of teenagers who perform in a high school band from southeast @NATIONNAME@ have volunteered to show off their self-composed rendition of the National Anthem.

This is still awkwardly worded.

The Dept. of Justice whispers the part about what she believes the Founding Fathers wanted

If this is the case, then you need to separate that piece of speech somehow from the rest of the speaking that character does, which is presumably in normal volume voice.

Ok so now the Ministry/department problem:
Ministry/Department is a whole organization, not a single person. The entire ministry cannot be talking to you in an issue, that doesn't make sense. You have to pick a person (Minister, Secretary, Attorney General...) to be the speaker.
This is also the main problem with your use of 'she', as there's no female speaking for that pronoun to refer to.
Also from what I've learned from the issues editors, they generally prefer the gender of a character to be random unless there's a specific reason for it.
(there are macros for pronouns at that link to)

Speaking of,

"This is the start of a new era!" he yells before being immediately escorted out of office.

This 'he' is referring to the random name at the start of the option and so should be a macro to reference the gender of that character.

[Socialist Ancomistan]

“However, it is obvious that these kids disrespect our glorious nation. Any version of the national anthem other than the original should be prohibited.” She then bites into a locally produced @@ANIMAL@@ shaped scone. “It's what @@NAME@@‘s founders would have wanted,” she whispers under her breath.

I do want to separate the speaker’s quotations, but I’m aware of how awkward this attempt looks and would like to find a way to make it flow better

[Socialist Ancomistan]

/bump

[Verdant Haven]

- The term "national anthem" doesn't get capitalization (only a proper song title does).

- The final sentence of the description isn't needed.

- No need to hard-gender the first speaker.

- What is the government action or decision in option 2? It seems like it's just "do nothing."

- We have a fair number of issues that assume some sort of national anthem exists, including one that lets you specifically choose what kind of anthem it is, most options for which contradict what is said about it here. It also doesn't really feel like it's addressing the dilemma. I could see some possible third options out there related to things like local anthems for devolution governments, but honestly this might be best served by remaining very focused on the free speech question of it. A possible third option for that would be to have some kind of approval authority / official censor, who reviews and certifies "versions" of the song for use, if you feel up for that.

[Socialist Ancomistan]

/bump

Option 2’s speaker now has an actual position to argue on!

[Osheiga]

I love your description, imagining a "dubstep remix" juxtaposed against the serious/patriotic background of the whole event got a smile out of me

Option 1 - you should replace the instances of 'he' and 'she' with @@HE@@ and @@HE@@ and let the macro randomize the speaker's gender. I like the effect line but as per the previous comments 'National Anthem' shouldn't be capitalized.

Option 2 - the last two sentences fit pretty well here and I like the suggestion - just add an extra set of @'s around NAME and I think you're set. Thought I'd comment on that part since that seems to be the most recent addition.

Option 3 - I'm going to echo the rest of the thread and say this doesn't really need to be here, especially since it contradicts other issues. Most of issue #633's options are not hyper-aggressive nationalism as the option suggests (which makes this out-of-place for most nations who have already answered #633), and even if you made this issue a direct spinoff of the few #633 options that could work with that descriptor, it seems redundant to have an option about ditching the national anthem when #633 option 8 gave you the exact same choice. I think you should come up with a different option 3 and see what sticks.

[Socialist Ancomistan]

Sorry to keep you waiting, but I fixed Option 3. Upon further consideration, it has been completely altered from a “we shouldn’t have a national anthem” to a more middle ground position from options 1 and 2

[Socialist Ancomistan]

/bump

How close would you say this issue is to submission?

[Verdant Haven]

- Repeating from above: the term "national anthem" doesn't get capitalization (only a proper song title does).

- Effect lines don't start with capitals

- Watch grammar, syntax, and typos. Extra space before the comma in option 1, incorrect past tense in the dialogue tag of option 2, wrong or missing verb in the dialogue tag of option 3. In option 3, the formatting has the speaker declaring their own symphony to be offensive/inappropriate/not highbrow enough.

- I would suggest referencing a generic national holiday in the description, rather than Independence Day specifically. While it is the most common source of a national day, not all nations have such a thing, and a couple don't even have an official "national day" at all.

- Option 1's triple dialogue tag is clunky. I'm not sure what the locally-produced ANIMAL-shaped scone has to do with the argument, and the closing one about whispering under his breath doesn't seem to add anything.

- I hesitate to correct things that aren't in my own native language, but I'm 99% sure the French in option 3 has several minor problems. The composer probably wouldn't tutoyer Leader, so I'd suggest using "s'il vous plait" near the start. The phrase "es très bien" should be conjugated as "est très bien" in this context. We cannot assume the gender of Leader, so I would suggest finding a different, non-gendered conclusion rather than "mon ami."

[Socialist Ancomistan]

- Repeating from above: the term "national anthem" doesn't get capitalization (only a proper song title does).

- Effect lines don't start with capitals

- Watch grammar, syntax, and typos. Extra space before the comma in option 1, incorrect past tense in the dialogue tag of option 2, wrong or missing verb in the dialogue tag of option 3. In option 3, the formatting has the speaker declaring their own symphony to be offensive/inappropriate/not highbrow enough.

- I would suggest referencing a generic national holiday in the description, rather than Independence Day specifically. While it is the most common source of a national day, not all nations have such a thing, and a couple don't even have an official "national day" at all.

- Option 1's triple dialogue tag is clunky. I'm not sure what the locally-produced ANIMAL-shaped scone has to do with the argument, and the closing one about whispering under his breath doesn't seem to add anything.

- I hesitate to correct things that aren't in my own native language, but I'm 99% sure the French in option 3 has several minor problems. The composer probably wouldn't tutoyer Leader, so I'd suggest using "s'il vous plait" near the start. The phrase "es très bien" should be conjugated as "est très bien" in this context. We cannot assume the gender of Leader, so I would suggest finding a different, non-gendered conclusion rather than "mon ami."

Is there a list of “generic national holidays?” Because I can’t think of anything more generic than a nation’s independence day.

Also I know “mon ami” is masculine, but from what I read, it can also be used gender neutrally. Would “mon camarade” work better, or is it too close to the word comrade? Or should I just remove that part of Option 3 altogether.

[Verdant Haven]

Is there a list of “generic national holidays?” Because I can’t think of anything more generic than a nation’s independence day.

I actually meant it fairly literally:

"In celebration of an upcoming national holiday, a teenage music group..."

Also I know “mon ami” is masculine, but from what I read, it can also be used gender neutrally. Would “mon camarade” work better, or is it too close to the word comrade? Or should I just remove that part of Option 3 altogether.

I would avoid using any gendered form of address - camarade would take a gendered pronoun as well. Perhaps adjusting the final sentence so that it could end with mais non? would work - that's a well known use of French amongst English speaker. Something like "A symphonic version composed by a master like myself would be delightful, mais non?" could allow the addition of the French closer, if desired.

[Socialist Ancomistan]

Is there a list of “generic national holidays?” Because I can’t think of anything more generic than a nation’s independence day.

I actually meant it fairly literally:

"In celebration of an upcoming national holiday, a teenage music group..."

Also I know “mon ami” is masculine, but from what I read, it can also be used gender neutrally. Would “mon camarade” work better, or is it too close to the word comrade? Or should I just remove that part of Option 3 altogether.

I would avoid using any gendered form of address - camarade would take a gendered pronoun as well. Perhaps adjusting the final sentence so that it could end with mais non? would work - that's a well known use of French amongst English speaker. Something like "A symphonic version composed by a master like myself would be delightful, mais non?" could allow the addition of the French closer, if desired.

I’m going to have a go with further refining this issue, even though it’s been nearly five months since last edit. I changed the opening to “upcoming national holiday.” I agree it works well! From what I checked on Google Translate, “mais non” translates to “but no,” which doesn’t seem like a gendered form of address. It looks good on the issue, but I’m still split as to whether I should include it on my draft.

If there are any major or minor aspects of this issue I’m missing, it would be great to hear. Thank you!

[Pacific Haven]

Unless I'm missing something, having a classical composer revise the national anthem, only for it to be used as nursery rhymes, seems a little contradictory. There's a reason Humpty Dumpty wasn't written by Bach, after all.

Title needs work. Too literal at the moment.

mais non? is, as Verdant says, a common French phrase. Include it to highlight the Galliens-ness of him. (A better language would be Italian for music, French for cuisine, but nobody cares.)

[Socialist Ancomistan]

Unless I'm missing something, having a classical composer revise the national anthem, only for it to be used as nursery rhymes, seems a little contradictory. There's a reason Humpty Dumpty wasn't written by Bach, after all.

I sort of agree, that effect line was out of place. Fixed

Title needs work. Too literal at the moment.

mais non? is, as Verdant says, a common French phrase. Include it to highlight the Galliens-ness of him. (A better language would be Italian for music, French for cuisine, but nobody cares.)

I changed the title. While not perfect, at least it’s more concise

[Verdant Haven]

- Two small notes in the Description. 1) You should drop the "has" from "has volunteered" (it makes this something that will occur in the future, rather than something that already occurred), and 2) never tell the player what they think (cut the "as you expected" line).

- The main thrust of the options is in a reasonable place. What it needs now is a little bit of flair or interest on the first two, particularly in the characterization of their speakers. The final speaker is a famous, named, foreign celebrity, who speaks with character. The first two are just mundane titles without names, who serve only to mouthpiece a position.

- The effect lines are in the 3.6 Roentgen category... not great, not terrible. If you can find a way to present these ideas in a snappier way, that would help.