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Ukrainian War Thread III: The Horrors

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Democratic Communist Federation
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:59 pm

Dtn wrote:I'm suggesting his rifle is missing a crucial component.


I'm not an expert on guns or rifles. However, I think I am a fairly good judge of character.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:01 pm

Dtn wrote:


That's a better but more terrifying picture. Yikes.

Yah well that's media for you, gotta sell fear. But anyway no the rifle has a bolt in it. AK bolts just don't take up the entire receiver like an AR bolt does.
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Postby Democratic Communist Federation » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:10 pm

Adamede wrote:Yah well that's media for you, gotta sell fear. But anyway no the rifle has a bolt in it. AK bolts just don't take up the entire receiver like an AR bolt does.


IMO, just poor lighting.
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Postby Saiwania » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:45 pm

Space Squid wrote:In seriousness, are you trying to put out stupid ideas that you know will be mocked? Is that fun for you?


Its not stupid for Japan to take away from Russia while its vulnerable/unable to respond. It'd be stupid for Japan to invade the disputed territories now, but at the opportune time, perhaps it'd be brilliant manuvering. I know Russia can be beaten and if it is, that then is the moment to strike without invading too far into Russia itself. It has neighboring nations that could decide to take back what might've been theirs instead.

Just imagine a world where Viipuri, reverts back to Finland and doesn't stay as Vyborg under Russia. Lauri Törni long after death, would smile upon that. His home town returned to its rightful status.

Ukraine holding onto Donbass is just the beginning, it can open up Georgia taking back South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and fully casting out any Russian shackles/presence in their country.
Last edited by Saiwania on Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Chan Island » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:55 am

Saiwania wrote:
Space Squid wrote:In seriousness, are you trying to put out stupid ideas that you know will be mocked? Is that fun for you?


Its not stupid for Japan to take away from Russia while its vulnerable/unable to respond. It'd be stupid for Japan to invade the disputed territories now, but at the opportune time, perhaps it'd be brilliant manuvering. I know Russia can be beaten and if it is, that then is the moment to strike without invading too far into Russia itself. It has neighboring nations that could decide to take back what might've been theirs instead.

Just imagine a world where Viipuri, reverts back to Finland and doesn't stay as Vyborg under Russia. Lauri Törni long after death, would smile upon that. His home town returned to its rightful status.

Ukraine holding onto Donbass is just the beginning, it can open up Georgia taking back South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and fully casting out any Russian shackles/presence in their country.


I prefer to not think about worlds which have just been annihilated with nuclear hellfire, thank you very, very much.

Let's just focus on just getting Russia to back off from Ukraine and take it from there.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
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Postby Picairn » Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:12 am

Last edited by Picairn on Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Picairn » Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:57 am

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Albrenia wrote:With great power comes great mockability.

Proctopeo wrote:I'm completely right and you know it.

Moralityland wrote:big corporations allied with the communist elite
Social democrat, passionate political observer, and naval warfare enthusiast.
Listen here Jack, we're going to destroy malarkey.
♔ The Empire of Picairn ♔
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:39 am

Saiwania wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:It still befuddles me to this day that people are actually flying over and signing up to fight. It’s not even your own country.


For some people, its all about the chance to earn certain medals, if not to become a legend or hero, should their exploits be extraordinary. The point is that many try, many fail, but some do succeed.

Lol. Yeah, it's all about the medals.
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Postby Utquiagvik » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:43 am

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Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:35 am



If Mariupol is anything to go by, it will take them 3 weeks to take one half of the plant.
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Postby Sordhau » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:41 am



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Postby Adamede » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:45 am


Well here's to hoping this now "elite Guards unit" gets thrown head first at the most fortified Ukrainian positions.
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Postby Picairn » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:11 am

As Russia inaugurated a new phase of the war with massive artillery barrages against the whole Ukrainian front, I'd like to bring up the fact that current Western arms supplies are insufficient to defeat the monstrosity that is the Russian artillery arsenal.

A cursory glance of what Ukraine is up against: 2S19 Msta (152mm self-propelled howitzer), BM-21 Grad (122mm MLRS), 2S3 Akatsiya (152mm self-propelled howitzer), 2S1 Gvozdika (122 self-propelled howitzer), 2S5 Giansint-S (152mm self-propelled howitzer), BM-30 Smerch (300mm MLRS), TOS-1 thermobaric MLRS, as well as towed artillery and mortars such as 2A18 D-30 (122mm howitzer), 2A36 Giatsint-B (152mm howitzer), 2A65 Msta-B (152mm howitzer), 2S12 Sani (120mm heavy mortar), 2B14 Podnos (82mm infantry mortar), etc. You get the idea.

The Russians love their artillery, or "God of war" as Stalin called it, or "God's choice for anyone with the best ones" to paraphrase Napoleon. The employment of indirect fires en masse at the tactical level is one of the signature characteristics of the Russian Army. They love the artillery so much, other ground forces are organized to fix enemy positions in place for massed artillery fire to destroy, unlike the West which mainly use artillery for fire support. They make up for deficiencies in accuracy and artillery personnel training (compared to the West) by concentrating large volumes of artillery barrages against specific areas for maximum destruction and subsequent demoralization of the enemy. However, recently the Russians have also modernized their artillery forces somewhat by efforts to integrate the drones and electronic intelligence gathering equipment with the artillery forces, with the former rapidly communicating enemy positions in real time for immediate and accurate strikes by the latter.

Typically, to defeat massed artillery barrages, you'll need accurate counter-battery fires, guided by drones/detection radar, before your enemy can "scoot" (reposition) as in "shoot-and-scoot" tactic. We learned that recently the US has sent to Ukraine 18 155mm howitzers and 10 AN/TPQ-3G counter-battery radar. It will also start to train Ukrainian soldiers on how to use them in the coming days. Czech Republic has supplied Ukraine with howitzers, with a 152mm Dana in action some days ago. Slovakia is negotiating the sale of some Zuzanas to Ukraine. Estonia has donated some D-30 122mm howitzers to Ukraine.

Switchblades & other loitering munitions that the US is supplying is also an excellent way to kill Russian artillery. The problem is that these suicide drones are single-use, and I don't think Ukraine will be using them only for artillery (they also need to kill the tanks). Bayraktars can be another option, though Russia can counter by deploying Krasukha-4 EW systems to jam the drones.

Another way is using aircrafts to blast the artillery positions. The MiG-29 "Fulcrum" is not just a fighter, it's a multirole fighter capable of ground attack. Although the US has rejected the Polish deal to transfer some MiGs, Slovakia is currently negotiating with Ukraine on the transfer of some MiG-29s in store.

Frankly, the donated howitzers are too few to make an impact, and they require weeks of training before they can be used. About 700 Switchblades have been sent so far, but that's not enough. Russia is rumored to have deployed 2,400 artillery pieces in the Donbass, near half is artillery, near half is mortar, the rest MLRS. I also noted above that Switchblades are likely not to be used for artillery alone, Ukraine also needs to kill the tanks.

What the West needs to do now, is to supply Ukraine with bigger guns, more howitzers and counter-battery radars, more Switchblades, more MiG-29s, more loitering munitions, etc. to finish the final potent tool of the Russian Army, artillery.

Sources on Russian artillery doctrine:
https://warisboring.com/to-guide-artill ... he-drones/
https://finabel.org/long-live-the-king- ... in-europe/
https://www.awg.army.mil/AWG-Contributi ... -wage-war/
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/IF11625.pdf
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... _PE231.pdf
Last edited by Picairn on Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:16 am

Is the Germany still blocking its planned heavy arms shipment to Ukraine?
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:17 am

Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:Is the Germany still blocking its planned heavy arms shipment to Ukraine?

I thought they changed their tune on that two or three weeks ago.
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Postby Picairn » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:24 am

Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:Is the Germany still blocking its planned heavy arms shipment to Ukraine?

They just announced that arms supplies directly from the Bundeswehr's stocks have reached a limit, so it's likely that the supplies will be significantly slowed in the coming weeks as they'll have to ask the arms manufacturing industry to make some weapons for Ukraine.
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Albrenia wrote:With great power comes great mockability.

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Listen here Jack, we're going to destroy malarkey.
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Lower Nubia
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Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:25 am

Picairn wrote:As Russia inaugurated a new phase of the war with massive artillery barrages against the whole Ukrainian front, I'd like to bring up the fact that current Western arms supplies are insufficient to defeat the monstrosity that is the Russian artillery arsenal.

A cursory glance of what Ukraine is up against: 2S19 Msta (152mm self-propelled howitzer), BM-21 Grad (122mm MLRS), 2S3 Akatsiya (152mm self-propelled howitzer), 2S1 Gvozdika (122 self-propelled howitzer), 2S5 Giansint-S (152mm self-propelled howitzer), BM-30 Smerch (300mm MLRS), TOS-1 thermobaric MLRS, as well as towed artillery and mortars such as 2A18 D-30 (122mm howitzer), 2A36 Giatsint-B (152mm howitzer), 2A65 Msta-B (152mm howitzer), 2S12 Sani (120mm heavy mortar), 2B14 Podnos (82mm infantry mortar), etc. You get the idea.

The Russians love their artillery, or "God of war" as Stalin called it, or "God's choice for anyone with the best ones" to paraphrase Napoleon. The employment of indirect fires en masse at the tactical level is one of the signature characteristics of the Russian Army. They love the artillery so much, other ground forces are organized to fix enemy positions in place for massed artillery fire to destroy, unlike the West which mainly use artillery for fire support. They make up for deficiencies in accuracy and artillery personnel training (compared to the West) by concentrating large volumes of artillery barrages against specific areas for maximum destruction and subsequent demoralization of the enemy. However, recently the Russians have also modernized their artillery forces somewhat by efforts to integrate the drones and electronic intelligence gathering equipment with the artillery forces, with the former rapidly communicating enemy positions in real time for immediate and accurate strikes by the latter.

Typically, to defeat massed artillery barrages, you'll need accurate counter-battery fires, guided by drones/detection radar, before your enemy can "scoot" (reposition) as in "shoot-and-scoot" tactic. We learned that recently the US has sent to Ukraine 18 155mm howitzers and 10 AN/TPQ-3G counter-battery radar. It will also start to train Ukrainian soldiers on how to use them in the coming days. Czech Republic has supplied Ukraine with howitzers, with a 152mm Dana in action some days ago. Slovakia is negotiating the sale of some Zuzanas to Ukraine. Estonia has donated some D-30 122mm howitzers to Ukraine.

Switchblades & other loitering munitions that the US is supplying is also an excellent way to kill Russian artillery. The problem is that these suicide drones are single-use, and I don't think Ukraine will be using them only for artillery (they also need to kill the tanks). Bayraktars can be another option, though Russia can counter by deploying Krasukha-4 EW systems to jam the drones.

Another way is using aircrafts to blast the artillery positions. The MiG-29 "Fulcrum" is not just a fighter, it's a multirole fighter capable of ground attack. Although the US has rejected the Polish deal to transfer some MiGs, Slovakia is currently negotiating with Ukraine on the transfer of some MiG-29s in store.

Frankly, the donated howitzers are too few to make an impact, and they require weeks of training before they can be used. About 700 Switchblades have been sent so far, but that's not enough. Russia is rumored to have deployed 2,400 artillery pieces in the Donbass, near half is artillery, near half is mortar, the rest MLRS. I also noted above that Switchblades are likely not to be used for artillery alone, Ukraine also needs to kill the tanks.

What the West needs to do now, is to supply Ukraine with bigger guns, more howitzers and counter-battery radars, more Switchblades, more MiG-29s, more loitering munitions, etc. to finish the final potent tool of the Russian Army, artillery.

Sources on Russian artillery doctrine:
https://warisboring.com/to-guide-artill ... he-drones/
https://finabel.org/long-live-the-king- ... in-europe/
https://www.awg.army.mil/AWG-Contributi ... -wage-war/
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/IF11625.pdf
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... _PE231.pdf


Artillery is not king in the 21st century.
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Latvijas Otra Republika
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:27 am

Ifreann wrote:
Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:Is the Germany still blocking its planned heavy arms shipment to Ukraine?

I thought they changed their tune on that two or three weeks ago.

Yeah they were supposed to send tanks and a fair amount of heavy arms but it was Scholz I believe that was delaying the signing of documents.
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Postby Thermodolia » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:29 am

Port Caverton wrote:Why isn't Sai in the army? He talks and talks about how war is supposedly great and all but he can't walk the walk.

I wouldn’t want Sai in my Army or my Corps. But if he did joined he’d probably get washed out in the first two days
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Postby Latvijas Otra Republika » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:29 am

Lower Nubia wrote:
Picairn wrote:As Russia inaugurated a new phase of the war with massive artillery barrages against the whole Ukrainian front, I'd like to bring up the fact that current Western arms supplies are insufficient to defeat the monstrosity that is the Russian artillery arsenal.

A cursory glance of what Ukraine is up against: 2S19 Msta (152mm self-propelled howitzer), BM-21 Grad (122mm MLRS), 2S3 Akatsiya (152mm self-propelled howitzer), 2S1 Gvozdika (122 self-propelled howitzer), 2S5 Giansint-S (152mm self-propelled howitzer), BM-30 Smerch (300mm MLRS), TOS-1 thermobaric MLRS, as well as towed artillery and mortars such as 2A18 D-30 (122mm howitzer), 2A36 Giatsint-B (152mm howitzer), 2A65 Msta-B (152mm howitzer), 2S12 Sani (120mm heavy mortar), 2B14 Podnos (82mm infantry mortar), etc. You get the idea.

The Russians love their artillery, or "God of war" as Stalin called it, or "God's choice for anyone with the best ones" to paraphrase Napoleon. The employment of indirect fires en masse at the tactical level is one of the signature characteristics of the Russian Army. They love the artillery so much, other ground forces are organized to fix enemy positions in place for massed artillery fire to destroy, unlike the West which mainly use artillery for fire support. They make up for deficiencies in accuracy and artillery personnel training (compared to the West) by concentrating large volumes of artillery barrages against specific areas for maximum destruction and subsequent demoralization of the enemy. However, recently the Russians have also modernized their artillery forces somewhat by efforts to integrate the drones and electronic intelligence gathering equipment with the artillery forces, with the former rapidly communicating enemy positions in real time for immediate and accurate strikes by the latter.

Typically, to defeat massed artillery barrages, you'll need accurate counter-battery fires, guided by drones/detection radar, before your enemy can "scoot" (reposition) as in "shoot-and-scoot" tactic. We learned that recently the US has sent to Ukraine 18 155mm howitzers and 10 AN/TPQ-3G counter-battery radar. It will also start to train Ukrainian soldiers on how to use them in the coming days. Czech Republic has supplied Ukraine with howitzers, with a 152mm Dana in action some days ago. Slovakia is negotiating the sale of some Zuzanas to Ukraine. Estonia has donated some D-30 122mm howitzers to Ukraine.

Switchblades & other loitering munitions that the US is supplying is also an excellent way to kill Russian artillery. The problem is that these suicide drones are single-use, and I don't think Ukraine will be using them only for artillery (they also need to kill the tanks). Bayraktars can be another option, though Russia can counter by deploying Krasukha-4 EW systems to jam the drones.

Another way is using aircrafts to blast the artillery positions. The MiG-29 "Fulcrum" is not just a fighter, it's a multirole fighter capable of ground attack. Although the US has rejected the Polish deal to transfer some MiGs, Slovakia is currently negotiating with Ukraine on the transfer of some MiG-29s in store.

Frankly, the donated howitzers are too few to make an impact, and they require weeks of training before they can be used. About 700 Switchblades have been sent so far, but that's not enough. Russia is rumored to have deployed 2,400 artillery pieces in the Donbass, near half is artillery, near half is mortar, the rest MLRS. I also noted above that Switchblades are likely not to be used for artillery alone, Ukraine also needs to kill the tanks.

What the West needs to do now, is to supply Ukraine with bigger guns, more howitzers and counter-battery radars, more Switchblades, more MiG-29s, more loitering munitions, etc. to finish the final potent tool of the Russian Army, artillery.

Sources on Russian artillery doctrine:
https://warisboring.com/to-guide-artill ... he-drones/
https://finabel.org/long-live-the-king- ... in-europe/
https://www.awg.army.mil/AWG-Contributi ... -wage-war/
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/IF11625.pdf
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... _PE231.pdf


Artillery is not king in the 21st century.

How come? Didn't it due it's job fairly well in Ossetia and Azerbjzan?
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Postby Picairn » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:32 am

Lower Nubia wrote:Artillery is not king in the 21st century.

Not the plane either.
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Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:39 am

Latvijas Otra Republika wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
Artillery is not king in the 21st century.

How come? Didn't it due it's job fairly well in Ossetia and Azerbjzan?


Precision aerial targeting and reconnaissance is king in the 21st century, it enables you to achieve goals faster. Take the Battle of Baghdad, Artillery didn't enable the victory, it was aerial support and bombing - targeting enemy military radar systems and weapons systems, and anything else really.

Azerbaijan utilised precision aerial bombing and was able to target Armenian radar systems, Armenian convoys, armoured vehicles... artillery.
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Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:39 am

Picairn wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:Artillery is not king in the 21st century.

Not the plane either.


Yes, that doesn't mean aerial support isn't though.
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