[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[The Controlist Ferwerter Union]

Name: The Controlist Ferwerter Union
Date: December 31st 2021
Issue: #114 Wipe Out Graffiti?
I selected the option '"It's a disgrace!" declares @@RANDOMNAME@@, middle class and proud of it. "I can't even go downtown without seeing these hideous eyesores debasing the streets! We need to arrest the scumbags at the root of this, lock them up, and teach them a jolly good lesson! More policemen on the beat should do the ticket, even if it does require a slight augmentation in taxes!"'
So I expected law enforcement to go up (or at least stay the same) yet it decreased by 0.10% (16.74 points)

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Nice work on the issue chain "MADness"! I am slightly confused, since in the second issue in the chain, I answered with option 3, send diplomats to talk about the Soviet placement of missiles in Cuba East Lebatuckese installation of missiles just offshore. But now that fed into #1377 (issue instructions to the secret agent). Is this correct? Cool if so, there just seemed to be a narrative disconnect and I want to be sure I'm not buggy.

Thanks!

[Merni]

I don't understand how issue 61 option 2 caused a 3-4 point dropin my Income Equality. Surely, even if there is an effect tied to Economic Freedom, it should be smaller than this?

[Pogaria]

Nice work on the issue chain "MADness"!

I'm glad you like the chain!

I am slightly confused, since in the second issue in the chain, I answered with option 3, send diplomats to talk about the Soviet placement of missiles in Cuba East Lebatuckese installation of missiles just offshore. But now that fed into #1377 (issue instructions to the secret agent). Is this correct? Cool if so, there just seemed to be a narrative disconnect and I want to be sure I'm not buggy.

Thanks!

Yes, that's normal. Your secret agent is always involved in this chain, regardless of what else is going on. Some issues deal with what your agent is doing, and the rest deal with the effects of your other decisions.

I don't understand how issue 61 option 2 caused a 3-4 point dropin my Income Equality. Surely, even if there is an effect tied to Economic Freedom, it should be smaller than this?

Although we don't generally base stats on the effect lines, the one you received may be enlightening:
"citizens are allowed to rise or fall based on their own merits"

Basically, your citizens now have more economic freedom, and free-market systems tend to have larger income gaps between the rich and the poor.

[The Seven Seas]

The Seven Seas just answered option 1 of Issue #774, "Clean Switch". This gave me the newspaper heading "National Pride On The Rise", despite it lowering my patriotism. So the newspaper heading appears to be incorrect.

[Frei-Harz]

Issue #22
Nazi Ralleys

Freedom of speech yadda yadda

It is literally a crime, called Volksverhetzung, to hold a Nazi Rally in Germany.
This law was implemented by the occupational forces in Germany post world war 2 by the by for obvious reasons.
The Result of this law was not a widespread increase of corruption in the government or all encompassing restriction of civil liberties
We have an Alive and well community of fucking idiots who hold stupid viewpoints let me tell you what.

one of the effects of not allowing the Rally is a decrease of intelligence and most importantly a FIFTEEN PERCENT INCREASE IN CORRUPTION
like
is not allowing pseudo science based racism motivated populist Jingoist anti governmental Rallys REALLY a 15% increase in corruption and a decrease in intelligence but abolishing the Public press is like a 5%?
I know this isn't saying the Nazis were right but BOY does it feel bad to be punished for beeing Anti-Nazi like this.
it feels BIZARRE
Nonsensical
"Ah yes we didn't allow the Literal Nazis to march through town attacking our minorities so now BRIBES ARE MORE ACCEPTED!"

[SherpDaWerp]

FIFTEEN PERCENT INCREASE IN CORRUPTION

Percentages are misleading. Your corruption increased by somewhere between 0.70 and 0.40 points as a result of that issue. This is a tiny secondary effect.

[Kassaran]

This is probably more of buyers remorse than anything else, but I'm chasing Scientific Advancement pretty hard. Got to 18th spot.

#102: For Whom The Road Tolls [Ta Kala; ed: Sirocco]

The Issue
A group of transport analysts have suggested that a charge of five @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ a day for vehicular access to @@NAME@@'s most congested inner-cities during peak hours is the only way to solve their ever-growing traffic problem.

Got the choice of banning cars to increase public transportation and bussing.
""Allowing cars to scoot around and pollute our cities was a bad idea in the first place," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a famous environmentalist. "The solution is to abolish private motor transport whilst funding a major urban public transport scheme. Our buses and undergrounds could be the envy of the world! Yes, the car companies will suffer, and yes, there'll be a bit more tax, but wouldn't it be worth it for a bit of fresh air and safe streets for the children?""

Goodbye to top 50 of Scientific Advancement. My choice saw some pretty punishing effects to various important stats for minimal gain in return...

-13% to my Scientific Advancement (+13 to Primitiveness in spite of a robust public transit system being seen as a hallmark of advancement in many places rather than primitiveness) and pushed me to 62nd. Was not expecting it to hit that hard, especially given how the answer was worded.

Public education went up .36%, which saw a drop in average intelligence of -0.01%? What, did people become less intelligent in spite of increased efforts to ensure exactly the opposite? Is the average person learning less or has there suddenly been unforeseen consequences in teaching people more or putting more money towards teaching them anything? Is driving really that critical to ensuring people are more intelligent (given that I've seen how most people drive, it most certainly isn't a measure of one's intellect but rather coordination and thoughtfulness).

Life Expectancy is up 0.02%, Average Income is up 0.08%, Obesity is down a whopping 27.6%, but HDI couldn't be bothered to increase even 0.01%?

Then there's the point that for all of this, my Public Transport stat only went up 2.2%? What's the use in even selecting this option other than to tank advancement and industry stats?

Then Insurance went up, in spite of there being less individual things to insure? It'd make sense if there'd been any actual improvements to the Public Transportation stat, but instead I can only assume it went up because everyone's buying apartments closer to their workplaces now to avoid the Horse and Buggy plague that's descended onto the streets?

Needless to say, time to go full cyberpunk with every issue I come across now, since it apparently is the only way we can get any progress in issues.

[Outer Sparta]

This is probably more of buyers remorse than anything else, but I'm chasing Scientific Advancement pretty hard. Got to 18th spot.

#102: For Whom The Road Tolls [Ta Kala; ed: Sirocco]

The Issue
A group of transport analysts have suggested that a charge of five @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ a day for vehicular access to @@NAME@@'s most congested inner-cities during peak hours is the only way to solve their ever-growing traffic problem.

Got the choice of banning cars to increase public transportation and bussing.
""Allowing cars to scoot around and pollute our cities was a bad idea in the first place," says @@RANDOMNAME@@, a famous environmentalist. "The solution is to abolish private motor transport whilst funding a major urban public transport scheme. Our buses and undergrounds could be the envy of the world! Yes, the car companies will suffer, and yes, there'll be a bit more tax, but wouldn't it be worth it for a bit of fresh air and safe streets for the children?""

Goodbye to top 50 of Scientific Advancement. My choice saw some pretty punishing effects to various important stats for minimal gain in return...

-13% to my Scientific Advancement (+13 to Primitiveness in spite of a robust public transit system being seen as a hallmark of advancement in many places rather than primitiveness) and pushed me to 62nd. Was not expecting it to hit that hard, especially given how the answer was worded.

Public education went up .36%, which saw a drop in average intelligence of -0.01%? What, did people become less intelligent in spite of increased efforts to ensure exactly the opposite? Is the average person learning less or has there suddenly been unforeseen consequences in teaching people more or putting more money towards teaching them anything? Is driving really that critical to ensuring people are more intelligent (given that I've seen how most people drive, it most certainly isn't a measure of one's intellect but rather coordination and thoughtfulness).

Life Expectancy is up 0.02%, Average Income is up 0.08%, Obesity is down a whopping 27.6%, but HDI couldn't be bothered to increase even 0.01%?

Then there's the point that for all of this, my Public Transport stat only went up 2.2%? What's the use in even selecting this option other than to tank advancement and industry stats?

Then Insurance went up, in spite of there being less individual things to insure? It'd make sense if there'd been any actual improvements to the Public Transportation stat, but instead I can only assume it went up because everyone's buying apartments closer to their workplaces now to avoid the Horse and Buggy plague that's descended onto the streets?

Needless to say, time to go full cyberpunk with every issue I come across now, since it apparently is the only way we can get any progress in issues.

Couldn't you get that stat up if you reverse the ban on cars? Seems like a simple solution.

[Kassaran]

Couldn't you get that stat up if you reverse the ban on cars? Seems like a simple solution.

Maybe, but that's not my point. My point is it's a seemingly strange effect for the issue to have when answered in this way.

[Otaku Stratus]

That's the problem though, it can be taken as pro-nudity (or as unrelated to nudity at best), but the policy got cancelled. Which is, well, rather weird. Though I concur, I managed to miss that part of the FAQ.

Right. And to clarify, the relevant section of the FAQ is this:

But hold on... it get's worse. Also, many of these pseudo-policies are based on stats that the game only generates for a nation the first time they are used. This means that the pseudo-policy may suddenly appear when that stat is generated, even if the decision is one which is pushing the stat away from the pseudo-policy's criterion.

That's sure not how it ever worked in the past. there was one issue (evidently two but I've never seen the other one in all my years on NS) that gives you nudism, and a few that remove it, which only show up after you got that first one. Now I've gone many years without seeing even THAT issue (#8) but it's definitely not a policy that ever spontaneously appeared or disappeared before. It relied on #8 being answered a certain way. Now I'm to believe it's stat-based?
Apologies for replying to such an old post, but I'm getting so impatient and I know there must be something I messed up somewhere that's preventing me from getting the/a nudity issue. Hopefully that aspect of it keeps this post on-topic. (I canceled nudism by accident, one of those many issues that can do that)

[Land of Bobtopia]

Name of nation: land of bobtopia
Date: 2/13/22
Issue #: 669

In issue 669 the decisions are for determining how to handle the large increase in residential solar power production, from personal roof top solar panels. The options are 1. make a flat grid fee and lower KWh prices. 2. install power meters and let people sell power back to the grid. 3. ban solar panels. 4. Fund research into personal battery banks for houses. I chose option 4, the batteries.

the issue i had with that is, it lowered my mining industry by 14% from 3.9k to 3.3k. that change makes zero sense to me because the amount of mining lithium and other metals to make batteries is crazy, so if anything i would think that the mining industry value would go up. i get why it goes down, because the implication that you arent mining oil and coal or whatever. but i would think it would take more to mine materials for battery then fossil fuels because A. you dont have to move a lot of dirt for oil. and B most coal was made at one time in history, so likely it would be at a similar depth, all depending on tectonic plates of course.

TLDR i think option 4 for issue 669 should have marginal effect on the mining industry or make it go up.

[Kassaran]

Name of nation: land of bobtopia
Date: 2/13/22
Issue #: 669

In issue 669 the decisions are for determining how to handle the large increase in residential solar power production, from personal roof top solar panels. The options are 1. make a flat grid fee and lower KWh prices. 2. install power meters and let people sell power back to the grid. 3. ban solar panels. 4. Fund research into personal battery banks for houses. I chose option 4, the batteries.

the issue i had with that is, it lowered my mining industry by 14% from 3.9k to 3.3k. that change makes zero sense to me because the amount of mining lithium and other metals to make batteries is crazy, so if anything i would think that the mining industry value would go up. i get why it goes down, because the implication that you arent mining oil and coal or whatever. but i would think it would take more to mine materials for battery then fossil fuels because A. you dont have to move a lot of dirt for oil. and B most coal was made at one time in history, so likely it would be at a similar depth, all depending on tectonic plates of course.

TLDR i think option 4 for issue 669 should have marginal effect on the mining industry or make it go up.

It makes sense if it lowers mining because you're both lowering demand for oil and coal, while also not having any immediately tangible effects. What was the effect on your weather and environmental friendliness to boot? I'd also hope there were positive gains in HDI or Lifespan.

[Nepleslia]

Went with option 3 in issue 958 just now, yet my corruption rose as a result. What gives?

[Umbratellus]

From issue 1244, "Mooning the Flag," running with option 3;

"Do you realize how much that would cost the taxpayer?" panics business executive @@RANDOMNAME@@, as @@HE@@ props @@HIS@@ feet up on your desk. "Subsidize private businesses to further refine space weaponry, and we can deliver a much more efficient approach. A missile or two should remove the pesky Dàguó flag."

resulted in arms manufacturing dropping by about 50 points. I understand that space industries generally fall under Information Technology on NationStates but I would have expected an outcome similar to issue #53.1 "Orbital Armageddon?" where both Arms Manufacturing and IT go up instead of just one. I feel like it should have at least some positive impact on Arms Manufacturing instead of just the random fluctuations of the Business Subsidization stat.

[Wind and Void Rapture 1]

Instituting vat reproduction with issue #1028 shouldn't cancel Sex Education policies IMO. Sex ed is still valuable. It's not like the vat reproduction policy bans sex itself.

[The Free Joy State]

Instituting vat reproduction with issue #1028 shouldn't cancel Sex Education policies IMO. Sex ed is still valuable. It's not like the vat reproduction policy bans sex itself.

I've taken this backstage for discussion. It may take some time. Please be patient.

[Dreamcliff]

On one of my opening issues, the one with the uranium deposits, I selected the third option which was basically a compromise to get my economy up, and keep my environment decent, but somehow both of the stats fell?

[East Huron]

Might be normal but i legalized some parkour stuff and my obesity went up? It’s not a big deal but still it’s weird. I missed which issue number however.

[Noahs Second Country]

Might be normal but i legalized some parkour stuff and my obesity went up? It’s not a big deal but still it’s weird. I missed which issue number however.

The general health of your population decreased, since now there are a bunch of healthy teenage daredevils doing dangerous stunts and presumably dying.

On one of my opening issues, the one with the uranium deposits, I selected the third option which was basically a compromise to get my economy up, and keep my environment decent, but somehow both of the stats fell?

By choosing to protect a swath of rainforest you increased the existing level of restrictions on your economy, thus hurting it a bit. At the same time, allowing mining hurts your environment. Even though you chose a compromise option, both stats can still decrease - it's likely that if you chose either of the other options then one of the two stats would decrease significantly more than they did here.

[Port Pazo]

Name: Port Pazo
Date: 3/4/22
Issue: Sacramental Tax Time? (#91)

I chose the option to impose corporate taxes on religious organizations, and for some reason it increased Social Conservatism (↑2.8%). Seems to me that option should decrease Social Conservatism if it changes it at all, since, at least in the US, Conservatives oppose high corporate tax rates and support organized religion. Not a huge deal, and I might be missing something, but it confused me a little.

[Queen Yuno]

yo wtf I lost Military Stats for choosing this:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=show_ ... lemma=1011

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

This never happened before

“That would be a hideous waste of yunos!” objects the State Treasurer, showing you a number of charts that all seem to blend together. “If no one wants to view official media, then they don’t have to. We should scrap the entire thing and let the public come up with their own sources of information and entertainment. The resources could be allocated to somewhere else, like on strengthening our military and funding law enforcement.”

[Luna Amore]

yo wtf I lost Military Stats for choosing this:

https://www.nationstates.net/page=show_ ... lemma=1011

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

This never happened before

“That would be a hideous waste of yunos!” objects the State Treasurer, showing you a number of charts that all seem to blend together. “If no one wants to view official media, then they don’t have to. We should scrap the entire thing and let the public come up with their own sources of information and entertainment. The resources could be allocated to somewhere else, like on strengthening our military and funding law enforcement.”

Your absolute numbers did go up, but the relation to the economy as a whole was negative due to other factors, namely, a bigger increase to a basically non-existent industry in your nation (Book Publishing) and a decrease in subsidization. Because you have so few positive industries, this balance causes your Defense Forces to fall slightly. First and foremost, that choice is about bolstering Book Publishing.

[Umbratellus]

From issue 917:

3. "If wee ones are havin' trouble payin' for their garb, then I'll pay for it! All I ask is that they sport kilts instead!" pipes in eccentric United Federation billionaire @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ 'Montgomery' @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, affecting an accent that you are sure is not @@HIS@@ native one. "Och, when the wee lads and wee lasses wear wee kilts in school, ye'd be seeing proper traditional family values and pride surging. Just imagine all the little 'uns dressed in the traditional tartan of the clans. It'd be a grand sight indeed, aye?"

Going by the text of the issue (especially talking about family values and pride), I expected that this outcome might lower civil rights and crime/raise compliance and social conservatism. I was kind of surprised then that youth rebelliousness (+1) and crime (+0.01) both went up instead. I understand the effect line is a reference to braveheart, but I thought issue outcomes were supposed to be based more on the text than on the outcome. Seems unusual unless I just misread its intended slant?

[Noahs Second Country]

From issue 917:

3. "If wee ones are havin' trouble payin' for their garb, then I'll pay for it! All I ask is that they sport kilts instead!" pipes in eccentric United Federation billionaire @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ 'Montgomery' @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, affecting an accent that you are sure is not @@HIS@@ native one. "Och, when the wee lads and wee lasses wear wee kilts in school, ye'd be seeing proper traditional family values and pride surging. Just imagine all the little 'uns dressed in the traditional tartan of the clans. It'd be a grand sight indeed, aye?"

Going by the text of the issue (especially talking about family values and pride), I expected that this outcome might lower civil rights and crime/raise compliance and social conservatism. I was kind of surprised then that youth rebelliousness (+1) and crime (+0.01) both went up instead. I understand the effect line is a reference to braveheart, but I thought issue outcomes were supposed to be based more on the text than on the outcome. Seems unusual unless I just misread its intended slant?

Forcing children to wear kilts (or really forcing them to do anything) will generally encourage them to be more rebellious.