Not particularly. A Mosin–Nagant is a pretty good sniper weapon. Modern weapons shoot faster, and tend to use smaller high-velocity rounds that are easier to carry around. There's no particular range advantage except that modern optics are better.
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by Dogmeat » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:53 pm
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:16 pm
Dogmeat wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
Do the Greek modern assault rifles outrage WWII guns?
Not particularly. A Mosin–Nagant is a pretty good sniper weapon. Modern weapons shoot faster, and tend to use smaller high-velocity rounds that are easier to carry around. There's no particular range advantage except that modern optics are better.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:33 pm
Spirit of the Communists wrote:I think attack helicopters and modern fighter jets would be able to inflict serious damage on any forces. All a fighter jet has to do is fly high enough that the modern fighter jets can't reach them, and then start bombing I guess.
by Neanderthaland » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:37 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Dogmeat wrote:Not particularly. A Mosin–Nagant is a pretty good sniper weapon. Modern weapons shoot faster, and tend to use smaller high-velocity rounds that are easier to carry around. There's no particular range advantage except that modern optics are better.
the better optics would allow for better picking off of targets right? Since you'll be able to aim.
by New Baltenstein » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:41 pm
Neanderthaland wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
the better optics would allow for better picking off of targets right? Since you'll be able to aim.
Better optics will make it easier, yes. But I don't know if it matters since the Soviets - for example - will be able to deploy a thousand sharpshooters for every one of yours.
Your main advantage with modern rifles is going to be rate of fire. Which is an considerable advantage. Until you run out of ammunition. I'm guessing the Greeks probably have a decent ammo stockpile, but probably not enough to take on literally tens of millions of soldiers.
by Neanderthaland » Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:05 pm
New Baltenstein wrote:Neanderthaland wrote:Better optics will make it easier, yes. But I don't know if it matters since the Soviets - for example - will be able to deploy a thousand sharpshooters for every one of yours.
Your main advantage with modern rifles is going to be rate of fire. Which is an considerable advantage. Until you run out of ammunition. I'm guessing the Greeks probably have a decent ammo stockpile, but probably not enough to take on literally tens of millions of soldiers.
The main assault rifle of the Hellenic army is a modified version of the HK Gewehr 3, a weapons design from the fifties, so barely a decade away from WW2 tech. I doubt the tech level difference would make much of a difference in that regard.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:36 pm
by Thermodolia » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:46 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Modern artillery would be overwhelmingly superior.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:17 pm
by Kannap » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:41 pm
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:55 pm
by Heloin » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:59 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Kannap wrote:
Your continued surprise that technology isn't as advanced as you thought it was in the modern day is a hilarious cornerstone of these alternate WW2 hypothetical threads.
So they had computers in WWI for targeting, self-propelled guns, the same rates of fire, the same range, same accuracy and rocket artillery among other things?
Saying artillery hasn’t substantially changed since WWI is like saying mobile phones haven’t substantially changed in decades. It’s not plausible.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:02 pm
Heloin wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
So they had computers in WWI for targeting, self-propelled guns, the same rates of fire, the same range, same accuracy and rocket artillery among other things?
Saying artillery hasn’t substantially changed since WWI is like saying mobile phones haven’t substantially changed in decades. It’s not plausible.
Modern artillery crews still have the same sheet of paper with firing tables on them that with a bit of math can let you hit anything you want within range. The computer is their to do that math for you.
Sort of like how ships will still have a sextant on them because the computers are there to streamline the process, but the old systems still work.
by Heloin » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:10 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Heloin wrote:Modern artillery crews still have the same sheet of paper with firing tables on them that with a bit of math can let you hit anything you want within range. The computer is their to do that math for you.
Sort of like how ships will still have a sextant on them because the computers are there to streamline the process, but the old systems still work.
The targeting is way more precise,
the range is way greater,
counter-battery fire is way more sophisticated
and you can actually do real shoot-and-move.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:23 pm
Heloin wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:The targeting is way more precise,
Maths is maths.the range is way greater,
Not really.counter-battery fire is way more sophisticated
Not really.and you can actually do real shoot-and-move.
Yes a tactic used for hundreds of years and really perfected in the Second World War… Clearly the Greeks finally have an advantage here when everyone can do it.
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:30 pm
by Heloin » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:42 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Heloin wrote:Maths is maths.
Not really.
Not really.
Yes a tactic used for hundreds of years and really perfected in the Second World War… Clearly the Greeks finally have an advantage here when everyone can do it.
The laws of Newtonian physics as applicable to artillery and the math hasn’t changed. It doesn’t mean we haven’t grown exponentially better at exploiting them in warfare.
Next you’ll tell me a catapult to an artillery shell doesn’t demonstrate substantial tech advancement because the trajectories of both projectile types can be calculated in a middle school physics class.
It’s misleading.
by The Two Jerseys » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:50 pm
We have modern mobile rocket artillery platforms, they didn’t.
We have self-propelled artillery, they didn’t.
And so much more had changed.
What do you count as “really changed”? If we had these things in WWII, we could have won the war much sooner.
by Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:55 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Thermodolia wrote:The Soviet military during WW2 at its peak had roughly 20 million troops. Modern day Greece has 10 million people. And this is just the Soviets. Throw in the other 11 nations and Greece is fucked, hope you like genocide
But we have 21st century weapons and tech
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:56 pm
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
But we have 21st century weapons and tech
If you had made the scenario a modern power like the US, Russia or China then this would be more applicable, but it's not in the case of Greece. Modern weapons production is very expensive and Greece does not have a large domestic military industry in the first place. Any of the aforementioned modern powers could probably win this with some difficulties in the beginning but Greece gets flatly rolled over because it doesn't have the industrial base or technical knowhow to really press the time advantage.
by Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:59 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
If you had made the scenario a modern power like the US, Russia or China then this would be more applicable, but it's not in the case of Greece. Modern weapons production is very expensive and Greece does not have a large domestic military industry in the first place. Any of the aforementioned modern powers could probably win this with some difficulties in the beginning but Greece gets flatly rolled over because it doesn't have the industrial base or technical knowhow to really press the time advantage.
Modern China’s on the Greek side though.
by Thermodolia » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:05 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:Thermodolia wrote:No it wouldn’t. Artillery hasn’t really changed much since WW1
We have super computers, they didn’t. Counter-battery and targeting is godlike compared to those days.
We have modern mobile rocket artillery platforms, they didn’t.
We have self-propelled artillery, they didn’t.
And so much more had changed.
What do you count as “really changed”? If we had these things in WWII, we could have won the war much sooner.
by Thermodolia » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:13 pm
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
Modern China’s on the Greek side though.
They're too far to be of much aid to Greece in the scenario, you could easily navally blockade Greece from the wider world even with 1930's and 40's tech. It's simply not a position Greece could ever win, it would need to have everything it needs to fight off the assortment of nations in Greece proper, not coming from overseas, and even then Greece would still probably get rolled because it's small and doesn't have a large population.
Really the only useful help Greece has is Turkey and maybe Poland but there's again a numbers issue, even if both are qualitatively superior they could eventually just be run down by German and Soviet manpowers.
by Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:16 pm
Thermodolia wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
They're too far to be of much aid to Greece in the scenario, you could easily navally blockade Greece from the wider world even with 1930's and 40's tech. It's simply not a position Greece could ever win, it would need to have everything it needs to fight off the assortment of nations in Greece proper, not coming from overseas, and even then Greece would still probably get rolled because it's small and doesn't have a large population.
Really the only useful help Greece has is Turkey and maybe Poland but there's again a numbers issue, even if both are qualitatively superior they could eventually just be run down by German and Soviet manpowers.
Though modern PRC would be a pain in the side of the USSR.
by Galiantus III » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:57 pm
Frisbeeteria wrote:For some reason I have a mental image of a dolphin, trying to organize a new pod of his fellow dolphins to change the course of a nuclear sub. It's entertaining, I'll give ya that.
Ballotonia wrote:Testing is for sissies. The actual test is to see how many people complain when any change is made ;)
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