Operation Artemis

[Ristally]

It is 1939. Greece is different. You’ve suddenly got modern 2020 Greece, it’s infrastructure, military, population, production + all NSGers (now speaking Greek).

Greece is fucked, lol.

[Galiantus III]

Greece would lose:

First, geography. If the scenario was instead all of the listed nations against an island-based nation (such as Ireland) with a military like the one Greece has in this scenario, it is conceivable the island nation could win. This is because the advantages of modern technology relative to 1939 technology are very relevant for air and naval combat. Unfortunately for Greece, it isn't protected in this way. Invading enemy soldiers don't need to be shipped or flown to invade. They can drive and walk.

Second, logistics. In the island nation scenario, managing the fighting would be strategically simple. With no ground battles to worry about, the island nation could basically just focus on air superiority and be fine. Greece, on the other hand, would be obligated to meet the enemy on air, land, and sea all at once. Therefore its effectiveness in all three areas would suffer, and losing superiority anywhere would only signal an inevitable defeat.

Third, numbers. The fundamental problem here is conventional warfare hasn't changed so significantly between 1939 and now. Infantry, armor, artillery, and special forces will engage on a similar playing filed. Perhaps Greek soldiers do indeed have an advantage: they may be better equipped and trained, they may have greater range and intelligence, and these advantages may compound into serious morale problems for enemy soldiers. However, this is simply not significant enough for Greece to win. As others have said, the fundamental idea of shooting the other guy before he shoots you is the same. No matter how things start, the unavoidable fact here is the sheer number of troops available to fight would overrun Greek ground forces.

---

The only way I could see Greece pulling out a win is via some deception combined with shock-and-awe tactics (i.e. nukes, which aren't allowed). The only stand-in for this is an extremely vicious, aggressive opening move. A desperate hail-Mary using as much air weaponry as possible to wreak havoc on the capitol cities of the enemy, taking out as many leaders and as much infrastructure as possible - especially communications. This accomplishes two things: first, it would cause confusion among the enemy nations, and second, it would give the impression that Greece is much stronger than it actually is. The hope is that this would cause many of the enemy nations to adopt a defensive posture, rather than attack, and render their collective military powers unable to coordinate. If this succeeds (and that's a big if), Greece would leverage its air force to maintain confusion and disrupt supply lines, covering its advancing armies. A Greek win would hinge entirely on its ability to maximize the information it has and minimize the information the enemy has. Any major screw-up with its land forces would be disastrous.

[Infected Mushroom]

The only way Greece would last more than a week in this scenario is if Zeus himself came down from his home in Mount Olympus to fuck shit up. If it was modern Greece vs, say, the Ancient World? Maybe. But not every WW2 nation except the United States.

Therefore, I choose not to fight directly and instead become a priest. Because Divine Intervention is the only way Greece would survive.

Good idea, maybe I should edit in some Greek gods. I'll think on it.

[Infected Mushroom]

Greece would lose:

First, geography. If the scenario was instead all of the listed nations against an island-based nation (such as Ireland) with a military like the one Greece has in this scenario, it is conceivable the island nation could win. This is because the advantages of modern technology relative to 1939 technology are very relevant for air and naval combat. Unfortunately for Greece, it isn't protected in this way. Invading enemy soldiers don't need to be shipped or flown to invade. They can drive and walk.

Second, logistics. In the island nation scenario, managing the fighting would be strategically simple. With no ground battles to worry about, the island nation could basically just focus on air superiority and be fine. Greece, on the other hand, would be obligated to meet the enemy on air, land, and sea all at once. Therefore its effectiveness in all three areas would suffer, and losing superiority anywhere would only signal an inevitable defeat.

Third, numbers. The fundamental problem here is conventional warfare hasn't changed so significantly between 1939 and now. Infantry, armor, artillery, and special forces will engage on a similar playing filed. Perhaps Greek soldiers do indeed have an advantage: they may be better equipped and trained, they may have greater range and intelligence, and these advantages may compound into serious morale problems for enemy soldiers. However, this is simply not significant enough for Greece to win. As others have said, the fundamental idea of shooting the other guy before he shoots you is the same. No matter how things start, the unavoidable fact here is the sheer number of troops available to fight would overrun Greek ground forces.

---

The only way I could see Greece pulling out a win is via some deception combined with shock-and-awe tactics (i.e. nukes, which aren't allowed). The only stand-in for this is an extremely vicious, aggressive opening move. A desperate hail-Mary using as much air weaponry as possible to wreak havoc on the capitol cities of the enemy, taking out as many leaders and as much infrastructure as possible - especially communications. This accomplishes two things: first, it would cause confusion among the enemy nations, and second, it would give the impression that Greece is much stronger than it actually is. The hope is that this would cause many of the enemy nations to adopt a defensive posture, rather than attack, and render their collective military powers unable to coordinate. If this succeeds (and that's a big if), Greece would leverage its air force to maintain confusion and disrupt supply lines, covering its advancing armies. A Greek win would hinge entirely on its ability to maximize the information it has and minimize the information the enemy has. Any major screw-up with its land forces would be disastrous.

Ah I see. Still, I think Greece could at least pull up a valiant heroic and very impressive fight right? Even though they don't win?

[Galiantus III]

Ah I see. Still, I think Greece could at least pull up a valiant heroic and very impressive fight right?

It is certainly conceivable they could net more kills of military personnel than they have citizens. Whether that is valiant, heroic, or impressive is another discussion entirely.

[Infected Mushroom]

Ah I see. Still, I think Greece could at least pull up a valiant heroic and very impressive fight right?

It is certainly conceivable they could net more kills of military personnel than they have citizens. Whether that is valiant, heroic, or impressive is another discussion entirely.

I see. Well thanks for your very in-depth analysis of the situation. =)

[Bloodstained Castle]

Why Greece to begin with?

[Infected Mushroom]

Alright. As has been pointed out by many posters, the setup of the scenario is too imbalanced. I would like to give Greece some 1939 allies.

Please standby for edits to the OP.

[Infected Mushroom]

The following countries are now allies to Greece (to make it more fair):

Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Yugoslavia, Poland, Hungary, China, United States of America

Please carry on.

[Heloin]

The following countries are now allies to Greece (to make it more fair):

Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, Yugoslavia, Poland, Hungary, China, United States of America

Please carry on.

You play too many video games. And no. How Would China survive a joint British, French, Soviet, and Japanese invasion? How much quicker would the Balkans fall seeing the Germans and Soviets bearing down on them? How would the United States be able to advance into a Pacific united against them? How would the United States land a single soldier in Europe?

China

Also

[The Alma Mater]

The following countries are now allies to Greece (to make it more fair):



Please carry on.

You play too many video games. And no. How Would China survive a joint British, French, Soviet, and Japanese invasion? How much quicker would the Balkans fall seeing the Germans and Soviets bearing down on them? How would the United States be able to advance into a Pacific united against them? How would the United States land a single soldier in Europe?

They would have 2022 tech. They can airdrop drones and soldiers everywhere they want.
Of course, if they do not actually *have* the tech ready but need to adjust production according to the blueprints received from Greece, time is not on their side.

[Infected Mushroom]

You play too many video games. And no. How Would China survive a joint British, French, Soviet, and Japanese invasion? How much quicker would the Balkans fall seeing the Germans and Soviets bearing down on them? How would the United States be able to advance into a Pacific united against them? How would the United States land a single soldier in Europe?

They would have 2022 tech. They can airdrop drones and soldiers everywhere they want.
Of course, if they do not actually *have* the tech ready but need to adjust production according to the blueprints received from Greece, time is not on their side.

They do have 2022 tech. Except for the USA (would be too unbalanced).

I clarified in the OP. You make good points.

[Heloin]

They would have 2022 tech. They can airdrop drones and soldiers everywhere they want.
Of course, if they do not actually *have* the tech ready but need to adjust production according to the blueprints received from Greece, time is not on their side.

They do have 2022 tech. Except for the USA (would be too unbalanced).

I clarified in the OP. You make good points.

Firstly Yugoslavia doesn’t exist.

Secondly. China nukes Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, London, Paris, etc.

And if you’re going to try and bs me on nukes then the PLA will steamroll Japan, the Soviets, and just about anyone else who comes at them.

[Infected Mushroom]

They do have 2022 tech. Except for the USA (would be too unbalanced).

I clarified in the OP. You make good points.

Firstly Yugoslavia doesn’t exist.

Secondly. China nukes Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, London, Paris, etc.

And if you’re going to try and bs me on nukes then the PLA will steamroll Japan, the Soviets, and just about anyone else who comes at them.

Yugoslavia would have the combined population, economic, military, natural and infrastructural resources of whatever occupies that land in 2020.

The scenario is intended to be a no WMD setup. I was hoping for large scale conventional battles.

[The Alma Mater]

Firstly Yugoslavia doesn’t exist.

Secondly. China nukes Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, London, Paris, etc.

And if you’re going to try and bs me on nukes then the PLA will steamroll Japan, the Soviets, and just about anyone else who comes at them.

Yugoslavia would have the combined population, economic, military, natural and infrastructural resources of whatever occupies that land in 2020.

The scenario is intended to be a no WMD setup. I was hoping for large scale conventional battles.

As I pointed out earlier, that will not happen in real life. We either get dronefest or superspy blackmail.

[Heloin]

Firstly Yugoslavia doesn’t exist.

Secondly. China nukes Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, London, Paris, etc.

And if you’re going to try and bs me on nukes then the PLA will steamroll Japan, the Soviets, and just about anyone else who comes at them.

Yugoslavia would have the combined population, economic, military, natural and infrastructural resources of whatever occupies that land in 2020.

thanks. i hate it.

The scenario is intended to be a no WMD setup. I was hoping for large scale conventional battles.

Imagine the Gulf war on a global scale. That’s what you’d get with the modern PLA vs anyone then. What you want is the kind of battles that occurred in WW2. Battles that could only occur in WW2 with the military doctrine of the time. You could just read a book about Kursk if you wanted to read about battles like that.

[Infected Mushroom]

Yugoslavia would have the combined population, economic, military, natural and infrastructural resources of whatever occupies that land in 2020.

thanks. i hate it.

The scenario is intended to be a no WMD setup. I was hoping for large scale conventional battles.

Imagine the Gulf war on a global scale. That’s what you’d get with the modern PLA vs anyone then. What you want is the kind of battles that occurred in WW2. Battles that could only occur in WW2 with the military doctrine of the time. You could just read a book about Kursk if you wanted to read about battles like that.

So the Soviets would be invaded from two fronts? Would this happen? Or would Japan be focused first?

[Thermodolia]

Firstly Yugoslavia doesn’t exist.

Secondly. China nukes Tokyo, Berlin, Moscow, London, Paris, etc.

And if you’re going to try and bs me on nukes then the PLA will steamroll Japan, the Soviets, and just about anyone else who comes at them.

Yugoslavia would have the combined population, economic, military, natural and infrastructural resources of whatever occupies that land in 2020.

The scenario is intended to be a no WMD setup. I was hoping for large scale conventional battles.

Large scale Conventional battles didn’t happen all that often in WW2 either.

[Thermodolia]

thanks. i hate it.


Imagine the Gulf war on a global scale. That’s what you’d get with the modern PLA vs anyone then. What you want is the kind of battles that occurred in WW2. Battles that could only occur in WW2 with the military doctrine of the time. You could just read a book about Kursk if you wanted to read about battles like that.

So the Soviets would be invaded from two fronts? Would this happen? Or would Japan be focused first?

Japan and the USSR would get smushed by modern day China almost immediately.

First off by 1939 Japan had control over a lot of China. Throwing modern day China into the mix means that Japan is basically stuck to the home islands and Korea.

All you have done is insure that the PRC dominates the east

[New Saharia]

I would love to drive around in a Hellenic Leopard 2. We would certainly lose, but I'll have the last stand of a lifetime against German and Soviet armored pushes, just lighting them up from kilometers away with pinpoint accuracy until I run out of ammo.

That would be our biggest problem. They have more tanks, planes and troops than we would bullets, shells and missiles.

Would be an epic stand though.

[Risottia]

Can Greece win? Or will they get overrun?

Utterly overrun.
They can't even refine oil. Not to mention building motors or projectiles for cannons.

[Infected Mushroom]

Can Greece win? Or will they get overrun?

Utterly overrun.
They can't even refine oil. Not to mention building motors or projectiles for cannons.

They've got Romania on their team though.

[Risottia]

Utterly overrun.
They can't even refine oil. Not to mention building motors or projectiles for cannons.

They've got Romania on their team though.

1940 Romania.
Lol.

[Infected Mushroom]

I would love to drive around in a Hellenic Leopard 2. We would certainly lose, but I'll have the last stand of a lifetime against German and Soviet armored pushes, just lighting them up from kilometers away with pinpoint accuracy until I run out of ammo.

That would be our biggest problem. They have more tanks, planes and troops than we would bullets, shells and missiles.

Would be an epic stand though.

Would you be firing the main turret or operating one of the top-side heavy machine guns?

[Kannap]

The modern Greek army has a wartime strength of 750,000 men. This army would be outnumbered by any one of the enemies you listed in the OP by themselves. Facing all of them? Greece is fucked.