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Operation Artemis

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How would you contribute to the fighting?

Greek infantry
5
10%
Greek armor and land battle vehicles
4
8%
Greek artillery
5
10%
Greek special forces/snipers
8
16%
Greek jet fighter pilot
9
18%
Greek attack helicopter
3
6%
Greek surface warship/capital ship
7
14%
Greek submarine
8
16%
 
Total votes : 49

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Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38576
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:59 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
That was me.

Now how about modern Russia vs 1930s USA, British Empire, Japan, Germany, Italy?

Is that fair?

Russia is a modern-day great power and a huge arms manufacturer, it’s sitting on tons of natural resources and it has a bit population; I could set a win condition that gives Russia a fair shot?

Russia nukes Berlin, Washington, Toyko, London, and Rome.


And without WMDs? Can they run down three capitals before everyone else gets set up to bring overwhelming numbers to bear?

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Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25320
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:04 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Russia nukes Berlin, Washington, Toyko, London, and Rome.


And without WMDs? Can they run down three capitals before everyone else gets set up to bring overwhelming numbers to bear?

When you have to start cheating to win it’s hardly fair init.
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Northern Socialist Council Republics
Minister
 
Posts: 2401
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:17 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Guys he just needs to build 40 width mediums

It’s Greece. :p By what sorcery are you going to conjure up the necessary military factories to build 40-width mediums?



The Greek economy, like that of the vast majority of countries in this day and age, is heavily dependent on foreign trade and the country will have a hard enough time if suddenly dropped in 1939 even without all those inexplicably hostile enemies bearing down on them.
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The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25083
Founded: May 23, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:22 am

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Guys he just needs to build 40 width mediums

It’s Greece. :p By what sorcery are you going to conjure up the necessary military factories to build 40-width mediums?


I repeat: would they need to ?
They know exactly where all their enemies centers of operations are. They have drones, stealth tech etc. And the ability to create highly convincing incriminating evidence at will about all they would like to blackmail. The platic surgery to make their operatives look like high ranking officers of the enemy.

Greece would be stomped in an army vs army battle. But would this not give them a chance ?

Of course, as I said, in a world where your faction does not have the "repulsive" trait they would sign peace agreements and then become filthy rich from all their patents.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 154155
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:27 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:2. What is your role in the war?

Civilian refugee.
Why do you choose this?

I might actually survive that way.
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The Two Jerseys
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18231
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:48 am

War ends without a shot being fired when the Greek armed forces defect after not being paid in months.

On the other hand, Greece-o-slavia might have a chance...
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Krasny-Volny
Minister
 
Posts: 3154
Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Krasny-Volny » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:13 am

Logistics.

Even with modern artillery, fighter aircraft, and armor Greece doesn’t have the fuel reserves or enough manufacturing capacity to sustain its ammunition requirements. And the parts for all that lovely modern tech are going to get depleted mighty quickly, with no sources to acquire more in 1939.
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Vikanias
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1837
Founded: May 01, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vikanias » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:18 am

Like In our timeline, Greece would probably do good in the first half but when the big boys come around Greece loses, and turn to resistance groups.
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Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5367
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:47 am

The only way Greece would last more than a week in this scenario is if Zeus himself came down from his home in Mount Olympus to fuck shit up. If it was modern Greece vs, say, the Ancient World? Maybe. But not every WW2 nation except the United States.

Therefore, I choose not to fight directly and instead become a priest. Because Divine Intervention is the only way Greece would survive.
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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35392
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:09 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:The following countries are determined to wipe modern Greece from the map.

Nazi Germany
Fascist Italy
British Empire
French Empire
Soviet Union
Japanese Empire
Every single country between the Greek and Soviet, German, Italian borders

Greece ceases to exist then, pretty straightforward when it has that many enemies.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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New Baltenstein
Envoy
 
Posts: 322
Founded: Jan 07, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby New Baltenstein » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:06 pm

Vikanias wrote:Like In our timeline, Greece would probably do good in the first half but when the big boys come around Greece loses, and turn to resistance groups.


Even the bit about the first half is unlikely. IRL, 300,000 or so well-entrenched Greeks stood their ground against 500,000 Italians. In IF's scenario, the Greek Army (which is still app. 300,000 strong, same as back then) is facing more than 50,000,000 enemy troops. You don't even have to arm the latter - an infinite human wave, World War Z style, would overwhelm Greece's defenses in a couple of days.

Also one day I'd really like to know how and why IF keeps coming up with these bizarrely specific yet completely fantastical scenarios.
Last edited by New Baltenstein on Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Old nation has been lost in the void

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Nora Xent
Diplomat
 
Posts: 569
Founded: Oct 02, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nora Xent » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:08 pm

Since Greece stands no chance against the entire world. Long live Atatürk! Long Live The Republic of Turkey!

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Free Ravensburg
Minister
 
Posts: 3400
Founded: Jun 01, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Free Ravensburg » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:12 pm

Ερώτηση: Ποια Γαλλική Αυτοκρατορία?
Last edited by Free Ravensburg on Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ascendant Yugoslavia
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Jan 14, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Ascendant Yugoslavia » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:15 pm

If everyone is trying to dogpile Greece, they will eventually run out of manpower. Not to mention the lack of proper supplies for modern military tech in 1939. Also, Greece has no nuclear weapons and they don't have large reserves of oil, rubber, and many metals within Greece. With enough attacks, Greece will capitulate. Only question is will the anti-Greek forces attack each other first?

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Nora Xent
Diplomat
 
Posts: 569
Founded: Oct 02, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nora Xent » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:29 pm

Ascendant Yugoslavia wrote:If everyone is trying to dogpile Greece, they will eventually run out of manpower. Not to mention the lack of proper supplies for modern military tech in 1939. Also, Greece has no nuclear weapons and they don't have large reserves of oil, rubber, and many metals within Greece. With enough attacks, Greece will capitulate. Only question is will the anti-Greek forces attack each other first?

I assume that they put their differences aside to make sure Greece as a modern nation-state will no longer exist. So I don't think that members of the anti-greece alliance will attack one a other.

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New Baltenstein
Envoy
 
Posts: 322
Founded: Jan 07, 2022
New York Times Democracy

Postby New Baltenstein » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:37 pm

Why all the great powers of the 30ies plus all their smaller neighbors have spontaneously and unanimously decided that this one nation has to go remains another mystery.
Perhaps it involved some bad Ouzo-related incident.
Old nation has been lost in the void

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Frethotia
Secretary
 
Posts: 29
Founded: Aug 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Frethotia » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:37 pm

Me who is from Greece: Never has something so sad been so true

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Holy Marsh
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5522
Founded: Nov 09, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Holy Marsh » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:46 pm

The Greeks could kill an outrageous number of their enemies in this scenario. I sometimes think the gulf in capability between modern military equipment and world war II era equipment is not fully appreciated. The war would be very one sided...at first. The problem is that Greece does not have on hand what it needs to maintain that gulf in superiority when it comes to supplying her soldiers in the battle. Since this battle assumes everyone is 'blooded', and therefore Greece can't cow their enemies into submission, eventually Greece's expenditure of resources would vastly outstrip its ability to replace what is lost and resupply what has been used. The moment that happens the overwhelming advantage in numbers that her enemies have would become instantly fatal, and just as the war was one-sided at first in her favor it would turn against her just as brutally.

There are two fatal elements in this scenario. The first is victory condition. If Greece's victory condition was 'hold Greece' then it would have a chance. However, even assuming Greece could magically resupply and rearm itself and had a much larger army than it does now, expecting it to be able to attack, take, and hold the cities in question (and the territories in between) is absurd. The logistical nightmare of such a deployment while being so overwhelmingly outnumbered cannot be overstated. Greece has no chance of taking and holding these cities. The second is the condition that everyone will fight to the death heedless of losses. That turns it into a pure battle of resources which Greece will lose.
A Greece that just has to hold on has a chance; a Greece that can shock its enemies into not attacking it through a few outrageously one-sided victories has a chance. A Greece that has to occupy all this territory and has to do it against enemies that will never tap out has zero chance whatsoever.

As for me, I'll be an attack helicopter pilot 'cause helicopters are cool.
Last edited by Holy Marsh on Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jinggangshan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Jul 17, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jinggangshan » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:03 pm

I offer the Red Army my best wishes and all the troops I can. f*** Greece. :roll:

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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 122893
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:25 pm

If the Greeks have an unlimited supply of spare parts, mentions, and gas. The greeks, f-16 's and f-4's make short work Europeans.

Drones flying ahead of modern battle tanks, against panzer type 2's?
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Krasny-Volny
Minister
 
Posts: 3154
Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Krasny-Volny » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:35 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:If the Greeks have an unlimited supply of spare parts, mentions, and gas. The greeks, f-16 's and f-4's make short work Europeans.

Drones flying ahead of modern battle tanks, against panzer type 2's?


The situation is very much like the Gulf War, given the massive disparity in technology advancement. The modern Greek Army has enough firepower to destroy every single Panzer 2 ever manufactured within a week.

However, without an adequate reserve of fuel, ammunition, and spare parts for those F-16s and F-4s (unobtainable in 1930s Europe), it's a race against time. And not one the Greeks are guaranteed to win. Without ammo and parts - which are being burned through much more rapidly due to wartime attrition - they're toast.
Last edited by Krasny-Volny on Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 122893
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:38 pm

Krasny-Volny wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:If the Greeks have an unlimited supply of spare parts, mentions, and gas. The greeks, f-16 's and f-4's make short work Europeans.

Drones flying ahead of modern battle tanks, against panzer type 2's?


The situation is very much like the Gulf War, given the massive disparity in technology advancement. The modern Greek Army has enough firepower to destroy every single Panzer 2 ever manufactured within a week.

However, without an adequate reserve of fuel, ammunition, and spare parts for those F-16s and F-4s (unobtainable in 1930s Europe), it's a race against time. And not one the Greeks are guaranteed to win. Without ammo and parts - which are being burned through much more rapidly due to wartime attrition - they're toast.

True, which is why I qualified my answer.
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Neanderthaland
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8586
Founded: Sep 10, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Neanderthaland » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:01 pm

Honestly Turkey would have a much better chance. Since they would at least conceivably have 50 nuclear weapons. Those warheads aren't theirs, but they are physically in Turkey, so depending on how the mechanics of time travel work, they might go back with them.

If they could capture them, and set off even a few, it would probably be enough to get everyone to back off. They still couldn't "Hold Berlin, Moscow and Paris," but they could reduce them to ashes.
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Holy Marsh
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5522
Founded: Nov 09, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Holy Marsh » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:25 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:Honestly Turkey would have a much better chance. Since they would at least conceivably have 50 nuclear weapons. Those warheads aren't theirs, but they are physically in Turkey, so depending on how the mechanics of time travel work, they might go back with them.

If they could capture them, and set off even a few, it would probably be enough to get everyone to back off. They still couldn't "Hold Berlin, Moscow and Paris," but they could reduce them to ashes.

OP said no nukes.
Holy Marsh is ranked 1st in Nova (Greysteel) and 571st (477th) in the world for Largest Defense Forces.
Holy Marsh is ranked 2,723rd in the world and 1st in Greater Dienstad for Most Inclusive.
The Shift: An Update on Holy Marsh
"...an exercise in sadomasochistic futility," - Engaging in warfare against the Union
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Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25320
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:35 pm

Holy Marsh wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Honestly Turkey would have a much better chance. Since they would at least conceivably have 50 nuclear weapons. Those warheads aren't theirs, but they are physically in Turkey, so depending on how the mechanics of time travel work, they might go back with them.

If they could capture them, and set off even a few, it would probably be enough to get everyone to back off. They still couldn't "Hold Berlin, Moscow and Paris," but they could reduce them to ashes.

OP said no nukes.

Never recognise changes to the OP created because I was to clever for the scenario.
Honkbal Hoofdklasse on my radio tonight, I hear the team announcements and I know the time is right
And I know I mustn't say it though I feel it in the air, a home run for Rotterdam's Dirk van Beer!


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