NATION

PASSWORD

Where is left-wing conservativism?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Resilient Acceleration
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1139
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Resilient Acceleration » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:05 am

After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.

2033.12.21
 TLDR News | Exclusive: GLOBAL DRONE CRISIS! "Hyper-advanced" Chinese military AI design leaked online by unknown groups, Pres. Yang issues warning of "major outbreak of 3D-printed drone swarm terrorist attacks to US civilians and assets" | Secretary Pasca to expand surveillance on all financial activities through pattern recognition AI to curb the supply chain of QAnon and other domestic terror grassroots

A near-future scenario where transhumanist tech barons and their ruthless capitalism are trying to save the planet, emphasis on "try" | Resilient Accelerationism in a nutshell | OOC

User avatar
Great Algerstonia
Minister
 
Posts: 2618
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Algerstonia » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:07 am

Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.

TRUE!!!!!
Anti: Russia
Pro: Prussia
Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.

User avatar
Draconisisia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 138
Founded: Oct 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Draconisisia » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:17 am

Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.


Israel isn't left wing, Israel is far right.

User avatar
The free romanians
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 433
Founded: Oct 15, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The free romanians » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:21 am

Draconisisia wrote:
Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.


Israel isn't left wing, Israel is far right.

Weren't some israeli leaders labour zionists?

User avatar
Draconisisia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 138
Founded: Oct 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Draconisisia » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:22 am

The free romanians wrote:
Draconisisia wrote:
Israel isn't left wing, Israel is far right.

Weren't some israeli leaders labour zionists?


Yes, many Zionists used to be socialists. However, the current government is far right.

User avatar
Resilient Acceleration
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1139
Founded: Sep 23, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Resilient Acceleration » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:22 am

Draconisisia wrote:
Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.


Israel isn't left wing, Israel is far right.

Kibbutz.

2033.12.21
 TLDR News | Exclusive: GLOBAL DRONE CRISIS! "Hyper-advanced" Chinese military AI design leaked online by unknown groups, Pres. Yang issues warning of "major outbreak of 3D-printed drone swarm terrorist attacks to US civilians and assets" | Secretary Pasca to expand surveillance on all financial activities through pattern recognition AI to curb the supply chain of QAnon and other domestic terror grassroots

A near-future scenario where transhumanist tech barons and their ruthless capitalism are trying to save the planet, emphasis on "try" | Resilient Accelerationism in a nutshell | OOC

User avatar
The free romanians
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 433
Founded: Oct 15, 2021
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The free romanians » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:24 am

Like i said in another post and i will bold it here
its not that left wing conservatism doesn't exist because it does but that some don't want to acknowledge that it does

User avatar
Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17295
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:40 pm

Draconisisia wrote:
Resilient Acceleration wrote:After a period of letting this discussion run its course without my involvement due to sheer laziness and a new related NS project, I have returned with an answer and that answer is Israel.


Israel isn't left wing, Israel is far right.

Israel has pretty right wing social policies but at least historically had some definite lefty tendencies.
Texas nationalist, 3rd positionist, radical social conservative, post-liberal.
Did the moon landings end because there's a whites-only Nazi UFO base there and NASA didn't want to have to explain why they would never send a black astronaut? Almost certainly not. But it's less depressing than the reality that the moon landings were pointless. So too with all our great works.

User avatar
Necroghastia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7078
Founded: May 11, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Necroghastia » Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:17 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Narland wrote:

Short answer: Dedicated Marxism is designed to destroy social conservatism (the fabric of a society that gives it a semblance cohesion) in order to bring about the revolution so that the "new man" may rise from the ashes of its (society's) destruction. To compromise with this in any way (as Trotsky did) to Lenin was Fascism. The example was set, and anything that deviates from the Dialectic that is the current Orthodoxy (to divide and conquer) is Fascism. The German National Socialists? Fascists. The Italian Corporatist Socialists? Fascists. The Bathists? Fascists, etc.

So what you're saying is that the USSR under Stalin wasn't real communism?

If it does not look like a duck, does not act like a duck, and does not taste like a duck, it's probably not a duck.
The Land of Spooky Scary Skeletons!

Pronouns: she/her

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15532
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kubra » Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:17 pm

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Narland wrote:

Short answer: Dedicated Marxism is designed to destroy social conservatism (the fabric of a society that gives it a semblance cohesion) in order to bring about the revolution so that the "new man" may rise from the ashes of its (society's) destruction. To compromise with this in any way (as Trotsky did) to Lenin was Fascism. The example was set, and anything that deviates from the Dialectic that is the current Orthodoxy (to divide and conquer) is Fascism. The German National Socialists? Fascists. The Italian Corporatist Socialists? Fascists. The Bathists? Fascists, etc.

So what you're saying is that the USSR under Stalin wasn't real communism?
uh, I think he's saying the opposite.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
Teshmir
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Dec 01, 2021
Corporate Police State

Postby Teshmir » Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:02 pm

Taking the best of conservative religious thought and the economic observations and plans for human welfare socialism has to offer is the ideal political and moral approach I would say but only works when it really is the best of religious conservatism that’s being used. It often isn’t values like universal brotherhood or compassion and the preservation of healthy communal ties that are mixed with the leftist aspirations but partial communal ties to particular nations, cultures and ethnic groups and exclusion of other ethnic groups. Which ultimately just devolves into fanaticism and intolerance. It can be done well it just isn’t so often because every time it is the elites notice and do everything they can to ruin it.
A struggling quietist in the ruins of corporate techno-feudalism

User avatar
Jinggangshan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 129
Founded: Jul 17, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jinggangshan » Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:06 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Krasny-Volny wrote:
You’re far too old-fashioned for today’s progressive left in the West. You remember it’s about economic class struggle rather than changing social customs.

What is economic class struggle if not a form of changing social custom?


Krasny-Volny: my point exactly.

Necroghastia:

...exploitation is a social custom for you? The fundamental order of the distribution of wealth and the means of production? The principle of accumulation of capital? Well, if you want to call it that...

Still, I think there is merit in a specially defined "conservativism" within the left of politics. After all - for over 200 years we have fought and worked for our ideals.

Kubra wrote: consider reading Marx, instead


I did. Marx is the basis after all, but we cannot forget or ignore the refinements and the ideas of his successors. This is the problem of this new... twitter-marxism. No more actual study, sentences like "It's not my job to educate you" - tell that to our ancestors who founded the first workers libraries and schools, who founded things like their own workers red cross (dunno what that's called in your country though).
中国共产党万岁!
Cives, floreat Europa
Opus magnum vocat vos
Stellae signa sunt in caelo
Aureae, quae iungant nos

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 122148
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:12 pm

Kind of surprised, but not really, that no one has mentioned Liberation Theology.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17295
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:24 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:Kind of surprised, but not really, that no one has mentioned Liberation Theology.

Liberation theology tends to be tied in more with progressive tendencies in the Catholic Church and not really religious right.
Texas nationalist, 3rd positionist, radical social conservative, post-liberal.
Did the moon landings end because there's a whites-only Nazi UFO base there and NASA didn't want to have to explain why they would never send a black astronaut? Almost certainly not. But it's less depressing than the reality that the moon landings were pointless. So too with all our great works.

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 122148
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:30 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Kind of surprised, but not really, that no one has mentioned Liberation Theology.

Liberation theology tends to be tied in more with progressive tendencies in the Catholic Church and not really religious right.

Socially conservative, yet politically left wing.

Catholicism has its own right wing but the American religious right is protestant in basis not catholic
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Nationalist Northumbria
Senator
 
Posts: 3513
Founded: Apr 27, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nationalist Northumbria » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:04 pm

Kubra wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:So what you're saying is that the USSR under Stalin wasn't real communism?
uh, I think he's saying the opposite.

How so?
Republic of Northumbria
Bede kinnie — Catgirl appreciator

"The amazing thing is that Tony Blair being shot in the head after running a barricade for inexplicable reasons is one of the most plausible episodes in this RP,
which comes across as House of Cards by the writers of Mr. Bean."

User avatar
Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17295
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:12 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Liberation theology tends to be tied in more with progressive tendencies in the Catholic Church and not really religious right.

Socially conservative, yet politically left wing.

Catholicism has its own right wing but the American religious right is protestant in basis not catholic

Catholicism has its own right wing, which liberation theology is not exactly affiliated with. Liberation theology tends to be quite progressive in comparison to the rest of Catholicism- I mean, sure, it’s generally not AS progressive as modern intersectionalist whatever, but not really notable for social conservatism either.
Texas nationalist, 3rd positionist, radical social conservative, post-liberal.
Did the moon landings end because there's a whites-only Nazi UFO base there and NASA didn't want to have to explain why they would never send a black astronaut? Almost certainly not. But it's less depressing than the reality that the moon landings were pointless. So too with all our great works.

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 122148
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:31 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Socially conservative, yet politically left wing.

Catholicism has its own right wing but the American religious right is protestant in basis not catholic

Catholicism has its own right wing, which liberation theology is not exactly affiliated with. Liberation theology tends to be quite progressive in comparison to the rest of Catholicism- I mean, sure, it’s generally not AS progressive as modern intersectionalist whatever, but not really notable for social conservatism either.

Thats my point. And as such should be a topic for the thread.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Diopolis
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17295
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:48 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Catholicism has its own right wing, which liberation theology is not exactly affiliated with. Liberation theology tends to be quite progressive in comparison to the rest of Catholicism- I mean, sure, it’s generally not AS progressive as modern intersectionalist whatever, but not really notable for social conservatism either.

Thats my point. And as such should be a topic for the thread.

I interpreted the thread topic to be about socially conservative movements, not any religious movement in general.
Texas nationalist, 3rd positionist, radical social conservative, post-liberal.
Did the moon landings end because there's a whites-only Nazi UFO base there and NASA didn't want to have to explain why they would never send a black astronaut? Almost certainly not. But it's less depressing than the reality that the moon landings were pointless. So too with all our great works.

User avatar
Teshmir
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 49
Founded: Dec 01, 2021
Corporate Police State

Postby Teshmir » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:26 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:Kind of surprised, but not really, that no one has mentioned Liberation Theology.

It definitely pulls of the synthesis better than any “third position” wackery the right pulls. But it’s not typically that socially conservative per se, as others have said
A struggling quietist in the ruins of corporate techno-feudalism

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15532
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kubra » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:10 am

Nationalist Northumbria wrote:
Kubra wrote: uh, I think he's saying the opposite.

How so?
I mean fella went out of his way to find somewhere, anywhere to fit in an insult of Trotsky. You can tell where he leans on the Stalin question.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

User avatar
Salvatiotan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Sep 13, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Salvatiotan » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:17 am

Kubra wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:How so?
I mean fella went out of his way to find somewhere, anywhere to fit in an insult of Trotsky. You can tell where he leans on the Stalin question.

Is that seriously your argument, he was just saying that Lenin thought of Trotsky as a fascist because he didn’t do anything 100% by the book, but Lenin also saw Stalin as a fascist for the same reason. Besides he didn’t insult Trotsky, he just said that Lenin didn’t want him in power, but Lenin also didn’t want Stalin in power.

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24875
Founded: May 23, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:18 am

The free romanians wrote:Like i said in another post and i will bold it here
its not that left wing conservatism doesn't exist because it does but that some don't want to acknowledge that it does


Well, duh. The west, especially the USA, was indoctrinated to believe those godless commies "had no morals" - while in reality "traditional family values" were VASTLY more important in the Soviet nations than in the "free west".
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
The Communal Union of Libertalia
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Oct 05, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Communal Union of Libertalia » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:23 am

Left-wing conservatism doesn't really exist because conservatism and leftism are opposed. Leftism is about reducing or outright abolishing hierarchies and power-dynamics, whereas conservatism is about maintaining, or sometimes expanding, those hierarchies and power-dynamics. Christian and Islamic socialism do exist, and they are somewhat influential in left-wing spaces.

User avatar
Kubra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15532
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kubra » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:54 am

Salvatiotan wrote:
Kubra wrote: I mean fella went out of his way to find somewhere, anywhere to fit in an insult of Trotsky. You can tell where he leans on the Stalin question.

Is that seriously your argument, he was just saying that Lenin thought of Trotsky as a fascist because he didn’t do anything 100% by the book, but Lenin also saw Stalin as a fascist for the same reason. Besides he didn’t insult Trotsky, he just said that Lenin didn’t want him in power, but Lenin also didn’t want Stalin in power.
could you perhaps tell me the year Lenin died
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
Comrade J. Posadas

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Al Madhaa, American Legionaries, Australian rePublic, Bienenhalde, Communal concils, Google Adsense [Bot], Jewish Underground State, Lichian, MLGDogeland, Necroghastia, New haven america, Ngelmish, PhilTech, Salus Maior, Senkaku, Shrillland, The Jamesian Republic, The Nippon Teikoku, Uiiop

Advertisement

Remove ads