The Invasion of Ukraine, Russia Threatens Finland/Sweden

[Berhakonia]

Russia has every right to be imperialist, because they sell themselves as an imperialistic power. Europe's main MO is "economic stability and the preservation of the democratic process" and has a lot harder of a time justifying their imperialism.

[Mtwara]

Have these demands been made with a foreign or domestic audience in mind? The Russian government will know their requests are completely unfeasible.

The only way we'll really end this is by cutting European demand for Russian gas, because the bottom line will always be that western Europe cannot afford a war with Russia where they close the pipelines.

[Vikanias]

Gonna make a conspiracy; Joe Biden is a JEW and so is Putin, both are also GAY and probably your have kissed each other, but that’s not the end, Jerusalem is not a REAL city, it’s a super-mega-gay-Jew beam that will turn us all into gay Jews! The leader of Israel is Trans and hates our FREEDOM LOVING AMERICAN SOCIETY, they want us to act like little girls, the Jews have planned this since day 1 to make our LORD and SAVIOUR Donald Trump bend the knee to GAY Putin and give up some nations, all AMERICAN in ORIGIN. As the greatest AMERICAN to ever live, JESUS says; “being gay bad, but actually it’s not a sin to be gay, it was a mistranslation from Hebrew to English, it was originally youngster, which was made into young man, and into man. So being gay isn’t a sin, being a Pedophile is.”

[-Goguryeo]

But hey, if Russia does declare war, they will lose and we could see multiple revolutions happen in its territory post-war. Who's ready for the balkanization of Russian Federation?

[ImperialRussia]

Basically the instincts of survival the weaker you are the lower the chances you are to survival but if your in a pack you have increase chances of Survivability to stand against the opponent. But the if a nation wants help the Promises are not meet then made them selfs to die due lack of group willing to anything push themselves forward to death. Only one way forward is destroying your opponent completely then their you triumph until they meet your terms to agreement that you settled in for peace and stability. Only crows watch as weak minded individuals cowar in the face of despair. If you finish your opponent by the neck then you finish by neck same as for a nation. Their is nothing but gaining the advantage once internet access isn’t accessible around areas of your opponent in the battle field. For a nation settle to be with itself turned to the dark ages needs to know how to live without the modernized world dependent on electronics it would lead its certain collapse in the near future nations have veins they can be cut open to collapse like internet crypto currencies international trade and more internet can be cut off from the rest of world without people knowing it. No matter what nation was the highest or inclusive they are really do they have control of citizens due too their petty needs in which means create generate chaos and crime. If really their is WW3 can even governments even regulate the black market it be utterly impossible because internet would utterly be inaccessible. Really nations could use submarines to disconnect under water under ground internet lines international or global trade it doesn’t take that much even without a nuke.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Have these demands been made with a foreign or domestic audience in mind? The Russian government will know their requests are completely unfeasible.

No one cares about us lol

[Juristonia]

It would be stupid to agree to it. Russia is trying to push what they know will be opposed, and they clearly want war.

That said, war would most likely end unfruitful for them.

Russia doesn't want war, because they know they'd never win a conventional war.
This is theatrics from a leader who has been slowly losing support from his own people and is trying to portray himself as a strong, bold leader who will defend his people.
He doesn't care that the west thinks it's laughable, as long as he looks good to his own people.

[Cosmic79]

Tell Putin to shove it up his ass.

Laconic and to the point. Nice.

Russia only understands force. Will Europe understand this before or after they reach annex half the continent? I guess we'll find out.

[Antipatros]

U.S. to consider Russia's NATO proposal, but calls some demands "unacceptable"

[Kerwa]

Isn’t this just a response to the US threatening sanctions for Russia for moving it’s own troops inside it’s own borders? In other words a sort of “we can make asshole demands too” sort of thing. And it’s not like any of their senior politicians is talking about nuking anything (unlike the US).

I really don’t think they are serious. What I do think is they want guarantees that Ukraine won’t join NATO; I see their point, sort of. Anyway, no one is going to go to war over Ukraine, it’s not worth it, especially since the consequences could be devastating. I do think the US is acting in an unnecessarily bellicose fashion and agitating for some conflict however (Possibly with Iran, China or Russia - even Blinken is not sure about which) as the administration is essentially run by flower children who are trying desperately to not fail at something at least once before they die. Hence this stupid sanctions talk.

Ultimately all I see is Russia, like South America and Africa being driven further into China’s arms.

[Lady Victory]

NATO shouldn't withdraw from any member states whatsoever, but we should remove our nuclear missiles from foreign countries both in Europe and elsewhere as ICBMs make the idea of strategic launching positions rather redundant.

NATO should remove it's personnel from non-NATO member states as well.

NATO shouldn't keep expanding and in fact I'd like to see it dissolved sometime in the future when the Russians have backed down a bit.

NATO should definitely not be running training drills with Ukraine, the South Caucasus, or Central Asia but given several NATO members are in Eastern Europe there's no reason to stop with those specific countries there.

---

Overall most of these demands aren't that unreasonable; it's the one where NATO should abandon half it's membership based on geography that is totally ludicrous. The rest are more or less acceptable.

[Fartsniffage]

NATO shouldn't withdraw from any member states whatsoever, but we should remove our nuclear missiles from foreign countries both in Europe and elsewhere as ICBMs make the idea of strategic launching positions rather redundant.

NATO should remove it's personnel from non-NATO member states as well.

NATO shouldn't keep expanding and in fact I'd like to see it dissolved sometime in the future when the Russians have backed down a bit.

NATO should definitely not be running training drills with Ukraine, the South Caucasus, or Central Asia but given several NATO members are in Eastern Europe there's no reason to stop with those specific countries there.

---

Overall most of these demands aren't that unreasonable; it's the one where NATO should abandon half it's membership based on geography that is totally ludicrous. The rest are more or less acceptable.

You just abandoned South Korea, Australia and Japan to the Chinese

[Federated Island Republics]

I feel these demands are being placed with the (not totally unfounded) expectations that the West will spurn them, thereby making it seem as if it were the nato's diffidence that led to Russia interpreting Ukraine as a threat and attacking them.

If you sanction Russia too much (and it's almost confirmed nobody will act militarily against Moscow) Russia will soften up to China more and that's basically an East West Cold War Part II.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

Strange, I was just assured by a european that all of Europe has very close and friendly ties with Russia. They also explained that Europe is subsidizing america with bread and that american soldiers are gay.

Welcome to the internet.

Meanwhile I still believe European members of NATO need to increase military spending and meet treaty obligations. Only 4 of them consistantly do. The US should withdraw from European defense after 75 years. Leave nuclear detterence as a going away present.

[Rosmana]

Sounds like the demands an NS nation would make to start off a war story.....

[Dispertag]

Strange, I was just assured by a european that all of Europe has very close and friendly ties with Russia. They also explained that Europe is subsidizing america with bread and that american soldiers are gay.

Welcome to the internet.

Meanwhile I still believe European members of NATO need to increase military spending and meet treaty obligations. Only 4 of them consistantly do. The US should withdraw from European defense after 75 years. Leave nuclear detterence as a going away present.

I wish this would become true, but Europe has kneeled upon some political buenismo that we call it in Spain. Which means in Europe we have decided to forget the world is in a constant race for dominance and that war still exists. We think know nothing can happen to the nice, innocent, old Europe because we are constantly trying to spread this message that only peace is an option and that violence doesn't work, while the rest of the world is still working under real life circumstances, which aren't always good and peaceful. Europe should really rearm itself because we are a for today the most defenseless people in the world.

[Immoren]

...

Does anyone know how Ukraine and Sweden/Finland feels about NATO membership?

According to one public poll in Finland I found based on autumn 2021
11% Agree with joining to NATO
15% Lean for joining NATO
33% Are unsure
18% Lean against joining NATO
22% Disagree with joining NATO

[Gurkland]

NATO should accept these demands because the USA is still on a cold war mentality and surrounding Russia and impoverish them with all these sanctions and bank freezes is unacceptable. Crimea is a russian majority location and Ukraine itself imposed sanctions on Crimea and blocked its ports. In the European Union there are countries that did opposed sanctions and rely on Russia as a strategic trade partner and any worsening of relationships is not a good thing.

[Galloism]

NATO should accept these demands because the USA is still on a cold war mentality and surrounding Russia and impoverish them with all these sanctions and bank freezes is unacceptable. Crimea is a russian majority location and Ukraine itself imposed sanctions on Crimea and blocked its ports. In the European Union there are countries that did opposed sanctions and rely on Russia as a strategic trade partner and any worsening of relationships is not a good thing.

Tell Putin I said hello.

[The Blaatschapen]

NATO should accept these demands because the USA is still on a cold war mentality and surrounding Russia and impoverish them with all these sanctions and bank freezes is unacceptable. Crimea is a russian majority location and Ukraine itself imposed sanctions on Crimea and blocked its ports. In the European Union there are countries that did opposed sanctions and rely on Russia as a strategic trade partner and any worsening of relationships is not a good thing.

If the USA is on a cold war mentality (sic) , then why should nato accept the demands? It's a non-sequitur.

[Khaanada]

In diplomacy as in cattle trading, the opening bids are usually a bit exagerated.

NATO should negotiate an outcome whereby Ukraine is split up in the Russian majority provinces in the east (which can then join Russia if they want) and the western parts, which clearly don´t want to be under Russian influence.

Russia in return should give up any claims over countries where no such geographically demarcated majorities exist (the Baltic States comes to mind).

NATO should indeed stop creeping up on Russia: the US would freak out too if Cuba, Canada, and Mexico all stationed troops along the borders and waterways - simultaneously no less.

And no, I am not a Russian at all. Just someone with a history book that informs me of how strange a concept Ukraine is, when for most of its history it was split up in two separate spheres of influence.

[Galloism]

In diplomacy as in cattle trading, the opening bids are usually a bit exagerated.

NATO should negotiate an outcome whereby Ukraine is split up in the Russian majority provinces in the east (which can then join Russia if they want) and the western parts, which clearly don´t want to be under Russian influence.

Russia in return should give up any claims over countries where no such geographically demarcated majorities exist (the Baltic States comes to mind).

NATO should indeed stop creeping up on Russia: the US would freak out too if Cuba, Canada, and Mexico all stationed troops along the borders and waterways - simultaneously no less.

And no, I am not a Russian at all. Just someone with a history book that informs me of how strange a concept Ukraine is, when for most of its history it was split up in two separate spheres of influence.

I mean, try to invade the Gunshine state. Or Texas for that matter.

Edit: best Pokémon story ever.

“Cuban Troops use GUNS on Florida. It’s not very effective.”
“Florida uses ALLIGATORS ON CRYSTAL METH against Cuban Troops. it’s super effective!”

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

NATO shouldn't withdraw from any member states whatsoever, but we should remove our nuclear missiles from foreign countries both in Europe and elsewhere as ICBMs make the idea of strategic launching positions rather redundant.

First strikes are still incredibly important and it is why submarines are so threatening. To abandon 1/3 of the nuclear triad is, strategically and tactically, foolish in an era where high altitude interception is regularly demonstrated. Russia just shot a satellite in orbit and the US shot the fuel tank on a satellite that had been de-orbited and was reentering the atmosphere. These demonstrations show, if anything, that strategic launch positions are even more important to maintaining nuclear deterrence. That is just my opinion though and you could argue otherwise.

NATO should remove it's personnel from non-NATO member states as well.

NATO members have non NATO allies. Why should they be abandoned based entirely on geography? Remember NATO is limited to Europe and Atlantic countries.

NATO shouldn't keep expanding and in fact I'd like to see it dissolved sometime in the future when the Russians have backed down a bit.

What about CSTO? Is it only non authoritarian multi party democracies that are not allowed to have an alliance block?

NATO should definitely not be running training drills with Ukraine, the South Caucasus, or Central Asia but given several NATO members are in Eastern Europe there's no reason to stop with those specific countries there.

Again these are non NATO allies of NATO countries. Russia definitely has training going on in non CSTO countries such as Syria and eastern Ukraine.

[Arvenia]

lmaooooooooo russia with the small dick energy

russia aint gonna do shit if nato just says "no"

russia can't win against nato and russia knows this
it's just power projection

Well, Russia has like China and Iran by its side.

[Perm the Great]

Why would Russian oligarchs want a real war with NATO? There is no chance of winning at all.

This is probably some kind of performance.