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[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What would you consider to be the best 'compromise'?

Reduce abortions with welfare supports / other non-invasive measures, leave access untouched.
132
33%
Set conditions under which abortions can be accessed.
83
21%
Allow free access, under a given time limit.
38
9%
Allow free access, but give men an option to excuse themselves from child support.
40
10%
HELL WITH COMPROMISE, IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
86
21%
Look out! They're here! Pink Elephants on Parade! Here they come, hippity hoppity!
22
5%
 
Total votes : 401

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:00 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
A fetus has no brain, they are brain dead. Are you arguing that dead people should have more rights than living people?

No, I'm arguing that brain-dead people should have the same rights as people who are not brain-dead.

Have you polled the dead about their political preferences lately? After all the dead should be permitted to vote according to you no?

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:00 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
A fetus has no brain, they are brain dead. Are you arguing that dead people should have more rights than living people?

No, I'm arguing that brain-dead people should have the same rights as people who are not brain-dead.


Brain dead means you are dead. Like that is how death is defined.
Last edited by Spirit of Hope on Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:01 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.

It absolutely does if I'm right.

*If* you are right? If????
What makes you think you are?
Moreover, what if you aren't?
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:01 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:So how do you define "right?"

Very differently from wrong. :lol:
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:02 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:So how do you define "right?"

Very differently from wrong. :lol:

Not an answer. Now please answer. Why do you think you are "right" that abortion is so morally wrong it should be banned?
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:04 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Sundiata wrote:No, I'm arguing that brain-dead people should have the same rights as people who are not brain-dead.

Have you polled the dead about their political preferences lately? After all the dead should be permitted to vote according to you no?

If brain death = death then a fetus is probably not in the same category. We probably shouldn't have equated the two I guess.
Last edited by Sundiata on Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:04 am

Sundiata wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Have you polled the dead about their political preferences lately? After all the dead should be permitted to vote according to you no?

If brain death = death then a fetus is probably not in the same category.

Fetuses aren't typically allowed to vote anyway.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:05 am

Sundiata wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Have you polled the dead about their political preferences lately? After all the dead should be permitted to vote according to you no?

If brain death = death then a fetus is probably not in the same category. We probably shouldn't have equated the two I guess.

Brain dead = dead. A fetus would be classified as brain dead if tested.
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Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:07 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Sundiata wrote:If brain death = death then a fetus is probably not in the same category. We probably shouldn't have equated the two I guess.

Brain dead = dead. A fetus would be classified as brain dead if tested.

Sure, but it obviously isn't dying in healthy circumstances. It's a human life.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
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Michel Meilleur
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Postby Michel Meilleur » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:07 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Sundiata wrote:It absolutely does if I'm right.

consider: Thinking that you are 100% right all the time is the sin of hubris.

Refusing to act against a blatant crime and ignoring it because it's easier for you is the sin of pusillanimity, however, and I'm pretty that d'Aquin classified it as being a worse one than "misplaced righteousness", if it can even be called so.

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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:08 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Brain dead = dead. A fetus would be classified as brain dead if tested.

Sure, but it obviously isn't dying in healthy circumstances. It's a human life.

A brain dead person isn't dying in the right circumstances either.
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:08 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Brain dead = dead. A fetus would be classified as brain dead if tested.

Sure, but it obviously isn't dying in healthy circumstances. It's a human life.


Its only living by highking a women's body. Much like a brain dead body can be kept alive through major medical intervention.
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Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:09 am

Refusing to act against a blatant crime and ignoring it because it's easier for you is the sin of pusillanimity, however, and I'm pretty that d'Aquin classified it as being a worse one than "misplaced righteousness", if it can even be called so.

wat even is a crime

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Arlenton
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Postby Arlenton » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:09 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Arlenton wrote:The things others are trying to force me to do are outside of abortion and outside the scope of this thread, yet are very much by I support the McConnell court strategy.

As for abortion, I do oppose Roe on states' rights grounds. In the case of abortion, something I tend to believe should be legal, this is more of a "how the government(s) should function" issue to me as opposed to whether I think abortion should be legal or not.


The government shouldn't take peoples rights away because it offends some people morality. You are directly arguing that the government should have the right to take peoples rights away because someone finds it objectionable and then turning around and complaining when someone is doing that to you.

Sundiata wrote:It's wrong to abort a pregnancy for being unwanted.


Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.

This opinion is simply an opinion. The government has, and uses, the ability to take rights away from people for various reason.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:10 am

Arlenton wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
The government shouldn't take peoples rights away because it offends some people morality. You are directly arguing that the government should have the right to take peoples rights away because someone finds it objectionable and then turning around and complaining when someone is doing that to you.



Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.

This opinion is simply an opinion. The government has, and uses, the ability to take rights away from people for various reason.

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Abolish the 2nd amendment because civvies with guns personally offends me lmao

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Michel Meilleur
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Postby Michel Meilleur » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:10 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:Brain dead = dead. A fetus would be classified as brain dead if tested.

No, he or she wouldn't for the simple reason that for something to be dead, it first needs to have been alive and thus a fetus can not be called "brain dead" because his brain has yet to form.
Your whole argument hinges on a faulty premise and abusive argumentation, tbh, and being aggressive about it doesn't make it more right.

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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:10 am

Arlenton wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:
The government shouldn't take peoples rights away because it offends some people morality. You are directly arguing that the government should have the right to take peoples rights away because someone finds it objectionable and then turning around and complaining when someone is doing that to you.



Doesn't answer why the fetus should be able to highjack a woman's body. You can believe something is morally wrong, that doesn't give you the right to deny other people the ability to do it.

This opinion is simply an opinion. The government has, and uses, the ability to take rights away from people for various reason.

Do those "various reason" [sic] include the mentioned reason of offending some peoples' morality?
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Michel Meilleur
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Postby Michel Meilleur » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:11 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:wat even is a crime

An act that goes against natural, moral or human laws.

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:11 am

Sundiata wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Brain dead = dead. A fetus would be classified as brain dead if tested.

Sure, but it obviously isn't dying in healthy circumstances. It's a human life.

"Dying in healthy circumstances"

...
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:11 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Sure, but it obviously isn't dying in healthy circumstances. It's a human life.


Its only living by highking a women's body. Much like a brain dead body can be kept alive through major medical intervention.
Sure, but we shouldn't actively kill people who are in the process of dying. And if we don't do that, then we obviously shouldn't kill people who are in the process of living: embryos.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:11 am

An act that goes against natural, moral or human laws.

and which pendejo made you the arbiter of that?

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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:12 am

Michel Meilleur wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:wat even is a crime

An act that goes against natural, moral or human laws.

wat even is a natural law
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Spirit of Hope
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Postby Spirit of Hope » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:12 am

Michel Meilleur wrote:
Spirit of Hope wrote:Brain dead = dead. A fetus would be classified as brain dead if tested.

No, he or she wouldn't for the simple reason that for something to be dead, it first needs to have been alive and thus a fetus can not be called "brain dead" because his brain has yet to form.
Your whole argument hinges on a faulty premise and abusive argumentation, tbh, and being aggressive about it doesn't make it more right.

So a fetus has yet to gain personhood then. Either way it isn't a person.
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Michel Meilleur
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Postby Michel Meilleur » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:14 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Michel Meilleur wrote:No, he or she wouldn't for the simple reason that for something to be dead, it first needs to have been alive and thus a fetus can not be called "brain dead" because his brain has yet to form.
Your whole argument hinges on a faulty premise and abusive argumentation, tbh, and being aggressive about it doesn't make it more right.

So a fetus has yet to gain personhood then. Either way it isn't a person.

A toddler has yet to gain personhood. A mentally deficient child has yet to gain personhood. Either way, they're still a person and claiming the contrary is just peddling Nazi "life unworthy of life" rhethoric.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:14 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
An act that goes against natural, moral or human laws.

and which pendejo made you the arbiter of that?

I think we're all supposed to be, really.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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