NATION

PASSWORD

Why are we using dogs as law enforcement?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Should dogs continue to be used in law enforcement?

Yes
81
79%
No
21
21%
 
Total votes : 102

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27365
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:49 pm

So long as they’re used responsibly I don’t see why not.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
FNU
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 438
Founded: Jan 21, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby FNU » Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:50 pm

Immortan Khan wrote:
FNU wrote:No dog is born aggressive, it comes from the way that it's owner treats them.

This is simply not true at all. This is just a cope from obsessive dog owner culture that cannot grasp that different breeds differ in their baseline levels of aggression along with other traits. Training can only go so far in preventing aggression and even well trained dogs have turned on their owners or on others.

I don't really have a counterpoint to this, but even still, traditionally aggressive breeds like Rott's and Pitt's can be incredibly lovey and dopey dogs, and most of the time, they are, at least in my experiences.
I write dumb things, ask and I'll vaguely explain them.

User avatar
Vikanias
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1839
Founded: May 01, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Vikanias » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:04 pm

Since it’s very clear now that IM is serious by the dog banning stuff, all animals show aggression to an extent, whether it’s you taking their food or them being threatened by you all animals show aggression. It’s not just limited to dogs, why haven’t cats been banned because they scratched me? Why not humans considering we pretty much kill each other intentionally on a daily basis? My point is banning dogs is so stupid and impossible considering no animal unless trained will listen to a human to get the fuck out, whether we ban them or no animal will bow down to us because we are top dog. we only got to this position because of our brains, if a bear was as smart as us and had an opposable thumb we wouldn’t be at the top. count your blessings.
Last edited by Vikanias on Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition! Can’t afford to be a politician!

HONK HONK

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 122919
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:19 pm

As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Novsiveltz
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 23
Founded: Sep 20, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Novsiveltz » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:29 pm

Ignoring the arguments about dogs being capable of smelling things that humans are not capable of smelling, I want to explicitly state that you lost your point upon claiming it is animal abuse. Just to clarify: the criminal shooting/beating the animal, certainly yes. Using a dog to assist you in tracking down criminals or screening for drugs, nope.

Can you prove with specific evidence that law enforcement can perform the same and reduce/stop crime just as effectively without dogs and at a relatively similar cost? Dogs are domesticated animals with retained instincts to hunt and smell. Here, they are doing exactly that but for humans. In my opinion, the police treat them better than if they were left in the wild.

User avatar
Kadan Land
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Oct 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Yes also with the Coast Guard and Army

Postby Kadan Land » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:40 pm

Since we are an Iceland-type nation in The united Alliance. People can die from going on moving ice or surviving from our crime rates
with the national guard. So it's a Yes.
File-001. the file is only for Explaining Kadan land. Kadan land Region is ██████ ████████. Sorry if there is a Censor On the Region Name but the government blocked it from being public. Kadan land is also its own state.

User avatar
Kadan Land
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Oct 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Kadan Land » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:42 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.
Are you sure? Dogs have the ability to swim causing them for a good coast guard pet.
File-001. the file is only for Explaining Kadan land. Kadan land Region is ██████ ████████. Sorry if there is a Censor On the Region Name but the government blocked it from being public. Kadan land is also its own state.

User avatar
Free Ravensburg
Minister
 
Posts: 3407
Founded: Jun 01, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Free Ravensburg » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:14 pm

Kadan Land wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.
Are you sure? Dogs have the ability to swim causing them for a good coast guard pet.

So can tigers, next question
AAAAAAAAAAAAAA Times
INT:| Scientific Community Refuses to Name Lybian Disease “Ligma” | Indonesia Blockades East Timor After Severe Typhoon, Refuses Passage of Aid or Commerce Without Payment | Iraqi Republic on the Verge of Winning Iraqi Civil War / NAT:| EELOO-Class Rocket Launch Date to be Set Next Year | Brandenburgische Partei Officially Barred From Elections in Light of Recent Controversy
Puzzle
OU RADIO: Now Playing: 0:43/3:32 Pop
RADIO ZUFR: Now Playing: 1:02/8:26 Gaming/Religious
Borb with an NS account and a crippling addiction passion to JoJo | TG’s are not for JoJo Stuff | NSStats Accused of Treason to the Republic | Currently Working On: 1 New Season, 1 Continuation of Series, 2 New Series

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 122919
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Kadan Land wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As a cat, I am for banning dogs from all jobs.
Are you sure? Dogs have the ability to swim causing them for a good coast guard pet.

I do approve of dogs as sharkbait. But wet fur on a dog smells horrible
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Big Bad Blue
Diplomat
 
Posts: 524
Founded: Oct 24, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Big Bad Blue » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:10 pm

Because no dog has ever shot an unarmed young Black man.

Defund the police; replace cops with dogs.

The more I learn about cops the more I appreciate dogs.
"There will come a day when [the disgraced, defeated former president] is gone, but your dishonor will remain." -- Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) | "...the Big Lie is less of a literal belief...and more a myth embraced because it speaks to their deeper belief: That they're entitled to rule, no matter what. They don't believe the 2020 election was a "fraud" because of any actual evidence...they just think that people who voted for President Joe Biden shouldn't have a right to vote in the first place...Attempting to overthrow democracy was their desire all along."

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38474
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:44 pm

Big Bad Blue wrote:Because no dog has ever shot an unarmed young Black man.

Defund the police; replace cops with dogs.

The more I learn about cops the more I appreciate dogs.

Not a joke, my mom's dog is straight up racist. She gets more aggressive and barky around black people.

The theory is that since she was chained up outside in a minority majority neighborhood where she was taunted by kids so she associates dark skin with being taunted.

But the takeaway here, my mom's dog is straight up racist.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

User avatar
Hemakral
Diplomat
 
Posts: 901
Founded: Nov 02, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Hemakral » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:49 pm

Using dogs in law enforcement is kind of like training a baby to disarm bombs- it's cheap, and they may enjoy doing it, but it's also unethical, as they can't give consent and don't understand the risks involved in what they're doing.
._.

User avatar
Totalitarian Missouri
Envoy
 
Posts: 273
Founded: Sep 12, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totalitarian Missouri » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:50 pm

Big Bad Blue wrote:Because no dog has ever shot an unarmed young Black man.

Defund the police; replace cops with dogs.

The more I learn about cops the more I appreciate dogs.

Unbased.

Anyway, I think mauling Criminals to death is pretty neat.
"Kneel!~"
-Sublime Empress Alison Young

Depravity and Despair unbound. No one is safe, not even her from herself.

User avatar
Hemakral
Diplomat
 
Posts: 901
Founded: Nov 02, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Hemakral » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:54 pm

Totalitarian Missouri wrote:Anyway, I think mauling Criminals to death is pretty neat.

Meanwhile, in the far future

"Linda, I'm- I'm so, so sorry. I was speeding, and now- now they're going to release the Highway Patrol Murderbear. God, I can't believe this is it for me. Please, take care of our son, raise him well. I love you."

They were executed that very night.
Last edited by Hemakral on Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
._.

User avatar
Totalitarian Missouri
Envoy
 
Posts: 273
Founded: Sep 12, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Totalitarian Missouri » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:59 pm

Hemakral wrote:
Totalitarian Missouri wrote:Anyway, I think mauling Criminals to death is pretty neat.

Meanwhile, in the far future
"Linda, I'm sorry. I was speeding, and now- now they're going to release the Highway Patrol Murderbear. Take care of our son, raise him well. I love you."

This is the Future I fight for. 8)
"Kneel!~"
-Sublime Empress Alison Young

Depravity and Despair unbound. No one is safe, not even her from herself.

User avatar
American Legionaries
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6116
Founded: Nov 03, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby American Legionaries » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:45 pm

Hemakral wrote:Using dogs in law enforcement is kind of like training a baby to disarm bombs- it's cheap, and they may enjoy doing it, but it's also unethical, as they can't give consent and don't understand the risks involved in what they're doing.


Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

User avatar
Dogmeat
Minister
 
Posts: 3310
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:23 am

American Legionaries wrote:
Hemakral wrote:Using dogs in law enforcement is kind of like training a baby to disarm bombs- it's cheap, and they may enjoy doing it, but it's also unethical, as they can't give consent and don't understand the risks involved in what they're doing.


Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.
Immortal God Dog
Hey boy, know any tricks?
天狗

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27365
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:01 am

Dogmeat wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.


That's not a thing in ethics. Consent is consent, and if there's consent it's not coercion.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
Iwassoclose
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1309
Founded: Dec 08, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Iwassoclose » Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:24 pm

Salus Maior wrote:So long as they’re used responsibly I don’t see why not.

Thats the rub, they arent

User avatar
Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27365
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:14 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:So long as they’re used responsibly I don’t see why not.

Thats the rub, they arent


So they should be.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

User avatar
Iwassoclose
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1309
Founded: Dec 08, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Iwassoclose » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:22 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:Thats the rub, they arent


So they should be.


But they wont be. Thats the problem.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 39356
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:46 pm

Dogmeat wrote:
American Legionaries wrote:
Consent and an understanding of risks isn't necessary on account of dogs being, y'know, dogs.

Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.

Welll, there are dogs that failed because they where too friendly...
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38474
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:47 pm

Iwassoclose wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
So they should be.


But they wont be. Thats the problem.

There's better jobs for them anyway if we insist on giving animals jobs, like helping people with disabilities or as a way to get pretty people to talk to you.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 39356
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:49 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Iwassoclose wrote:
But they wont be. Thats the problem.

There's better jobs for them anyway if we insist on giving animals jobs, like helping people with disabilities or as a way to get pretty people to talk to you.

NOt all dogs in law enforcement have the personality to act as service dogs.

As an aside I assume we are excluding search and rescue dogs from the conversation?
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Dogmeat
Minister
 
Posts: 3310
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:59 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Speaking on behalf of all good boys, we would accept the risk anyway. Because it's who we are.

But that's not really the point. It's not unethical because the dog would refuse. It's unethical because the dog will never refuse. There are many things that you can coerce a dog to do that you probably shouldn't. Not because the dog minds, but because it lowers you.


That's not a thing in ethics. Consent is consent, and if there's consent it's not coercion.

Maybe finish the paragraph.

Consent for dogs is much like consent for children. It's not something they can meaningfully give.

And so you, the steward of the dog/child must make sure that what you are asking of them is ethical. Because it's not something they are equipped to do.
Immortal God Dog
Hey boy, know any tricks?
天狗

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aerlanica, Aggicificicerous, Ethel mermania, Greater Miami Shores 3, Infected Mushroom, Necroghastia, North Grantsburg, Orlesian States, Rhodevus, Shrillland, South Pacifican Kilendjj, Terminus Station, The Jamesian Republic, The Lone Alliance, Umeria

Advertisement

Remove ads