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Why are we using dogs as law enforcement?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should dogs continue to be used in law enforcement?

Yes
81
79%
No
21
21%
 
Total votes : 102

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Iwassoclose
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Why are we using dogs as law enforcement?

Postby Iwassoclose » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:55 am

What a terrible idea to have an animal that can be conditioned to alert the police to anything they want under the guise of police work or attacking a person.

1) the dogs are used as an excuse to search you when the police have no probably cause. they can say that the dog alerted them to narcotics or whatever illegal substance of the day and get the free pass to do a search against your wishes. Esp. people of color.

2) the dogs being used as an attack weapon.
- one there are too many instances of the police not being able to control their animal and cause more harm than necessary.

- two its animal abuse

Lopez has found police K-9s are “grossly, disproportionately” used against people of colour, inflict gruesome lifelong injuries, and often attack people who have committed minor crimes.

An extensive investigation led by the Marshall Project last year examining more than 150 severe bites found almost none of the victims were armed and most were suspected of low-level, non-violent crimes. Some were innocent bystanders. Among those cases are an Arizona man whose face was bitten off, and a 51-year-old man who committed no crime but was mauled to death in Alabama when a dog tore an artery in his groin.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3xqzy/ ... xperts-say
Last edited by Iwassoclose on Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:59 am

Free these innocent doggos from the police.


Greater Cesnica wrote:The use of dogs should be reserved for military use, not civilian law enforcement.

No, dogs are too good and pure for war. Dogs should be for disposing of treats.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:00 am

Ifreann wrote:Free these innocent doggos from the police.


Greater Cesnica wrote:The use of dogs should be reserved for military use, not civilian law enforcement.

No, dogs are too good and pure for war. Dogs should be for disposing of treats.

Fair enough :p

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Republic Of Ludwigsburg
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Postby Republic Of Ludwigsburg » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:01 am

One of the only reason police use dogs is because of sniff. *sniff* that smells like a terrorist
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:34 am

Dogs are useful in law enforcement for a few reasons, quickly finding drugs and explosives being two of them.

We have worked dogs, since they were domesticated. Not really seeing why police work should be exempted.
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Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:38 am

Animal abuse? The dogs are having fun.
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Hemakral
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Postby Hemakral » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:38 am

Jabberwocky wrote:Animal abuse? The dogs are having fun.

What if they get shot?
._.

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Iwassoclose
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Postby Iwassoclose » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:32 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Dogs are useful in law enforcement for a few reasons, quickly finding drugs and explosives being two of them.

We have worked dogs, since they were domesticated. Not really seeing why police work should be exempted.


There is a difference between herding cattle and using the dogs as tools for bypassing your rights and targeting mainly minorities

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Haganham
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Postby Haganham » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:34 am

Jabberwocky wrote:Animal abuse? The dogs are having fun.

The dogs are being coerced to commit perjury.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:35 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Dogs are useful in law enforcement for a few reasons, quickly finding drugs and explosives being two of them.

We have worked dogs, since they were domesticated. Not really seeing why police work should be exempted.

Drug sniffer dogs used by law enforcement are notorious for their false positive rates- well above 50% in many situations across the board. WIth false positives for explosives the statistics aren't that fleshed out, but NBC has some fascinating information on how they fail in that department too.

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Kerwa
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Postby Kerwa » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:42 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Dogs are useful in law enforcement for a few reasons, quickly finding drugs and explosives being two of them.

We have worked dogs, since they were domesticated. Not really seeing why police work should be exempted.


I don’t think the issue is stuff like bomb sniffing dogs etc, but more dogs trained to give false signals at traffic stops as a pretext for otherwise illegal searches.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:44 am

Kerwa wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Dogs are useful in law enforcement for a few reasons, quickly finding drugs and explosives being two of them.

We have worked dogs, since they were domesticated. Not really seeing why police work should be exempted.


I don’t think the issue is stuff like bomb sniffing dogs etc, but more dogs trained to give false signals at traffic stops as a pretext for otherwise illegal searches.

Dogs also false signal in general for treats/praise, or because they smell something they're interested in other than drugs e.g the scent of a female dog.

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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:05 am

Why dogs are used comes down to 3 main reasons.

1. Dogs have an inherently superior sense of smell and hearing than humans. Trained right, dogs can track a scent over long distances or detect what people won't. Which includes sabotaging any infiltration attempts most of the time. A would be commando likely would need to kill the dog to continue or retreat if barking will be heard or alert everyone else.

2. Dogs are inherently faster than the fastest person running. It has 4 legs and it's futile to try to outrun a canine's chase instinct generally speaking.

3. Humans as the dominant species of this world consider ourselves the masters of our environment or top of the food chain. Since when has any moral qualms or ethics ever stopped people from using lower tier animals as tools or help when this is viable?
Last edited by Saiwania on Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:08 am

Saiwania wrote:Why dogs are used comes down to 3 main reasons.

1. Dogs have an inherently superior sense of smell and hearing than humans. Trained right, dogs can track a scent over long distances or detect what people won't. Which includes sabotaging any infiltration attempts most of the time. A would be commando likely would need to kill the dog to continue or retreat if barking will be heard or alert everyone else.

2. Dogs are inherently faster than the fastest person running. It has 4 legs and it's futile to try to outrun a canine's chase instinct generally speaking.

3. Humans as the dominant species of this world consider ourselves the masters of our environment or top of the food chain. Since when as any moral qualms or ethics ever stopped people from using lower tier animals as tools or help when this is viable?

1. This is applicable to the military, and shouldn't be for civilian law enforcement.

2. Still applicable more to the military.

3. My arguments against dogs in law enforcement are based on their ineffectiveness when it comes to detection.

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Ithalian Empire
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Postby Ithalian Empire » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:18 am

So, there is a town north of me. A dot on a map with two bars really. Now three years ago a dude got dumped by his girl friend and decided to get high as fuck and start waving a shot gun around the town. Of course a dot with two bars doesn't have its own police to the county sheriff responded to the call. Needless to say as soon as the deputies got out the got shot at. Dude hand them pinned down in the front lawn of his house. Now, the county sheriff isn't in the habit of blasting people, so the sent for the robot to go and see where he was. Robot was killed by 00 buck.

So they call in the K9 unit. They then tell the dude that the dog is here. By know he's kinds sorta sobering up so he is no longer too sure if this is a good idea. He still refused to surrender so the K9 god sent in and before he could say "oop" it had bit his thigh and ended the confrontation. No one died but a robot. If anything a dog is a massive intimidation factor. There is something primal about being bit by a dog that makes most people just give up.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:30 am

The most compelling reason for civilian police using dogs is that a canine will probably do a better job of intercepting a fleeing suspect on foot than another person can. The dog will near inevitably catch up to a person assuming it's a clear path regardless of how fast they are.
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Immortan Khan
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Postby Immortan Khan » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:00 pm

LE has legitimate uses for using dogs from drug detection to tracking missing persons or fleeing criminals. What's next, flat out preventing law enforcement from using any force whatsoever?
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:01 pm

Police uses dogs because they wouldn't hire me sheep.
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Immortan Khan
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Postby Immortan Khan » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:02 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Dogs are useful in law enforcement for a few reasons, quickly finding drugs and explosives being two of them.

We have worked dogs, since they were domesticated. Not really seeing why police work should be exempted.

Drug sniffer dogs used by law enforcement are notorious for their false positive rates- well above 50% in many situations across the board. WIth false positives for explosives the statistics aren't that fleshed out, but NBC has some fascinating information on how they fail in that department too.

What is a dog's positive rate vs that of a human when it comes to sniffing out drugs.
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United Ballguard
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Postby United Ballguard » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:09 pm

Because dogs are very useful for law enforcement, largely for their ability to sniff out drugs or people hiding. I'm surprised this is even a topic. Ya'll need to give the cops a break for once.
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Northern Socialist Council Republics
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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:11 pm

Assuming that the facts are indeed as they are presented, then yes I’d be in favour of removing dogs from law enforcement.

Violence as wielded by the state is an inherently sensitive issue, simply because its such a dominant force from which there’s basically no recourse. Consequently I’m firmly of the opinion that for any state institution that uses violence, society is better off if they go for high specificity over high sensitivity nine times out of ten.

That goes double when that society is at peace and facing no great threat to its stability, and doubled yet again when we’re talking about civil law enforcement intended to be used against people within the state society using the violence.

Something with a 50+ percent false positive rate shouldn’t constitute “probable cause” for a search.
Last edited by Northern Socialist Council Republics on Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:52 pm

Because people complain when the police use bullets to make people stop resisting arrest.
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Postby American Legionaries » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:02 pm

Northern Socialist Council Republics wrote:Assuming that the facts are indeed as they are presented, then yes I’d be in favour of removing dogs from law enforcement.

Violence as wielded by the state is an inherently sensitive issue, simply because its such a dominant force from which there’s basically no recourse. Consequently I’m firmly of the opinion that for any state institution that uses violence, society is better off if they go for high specificity over high sensitivity nine times out of ten.

That goes double when that society is at peace and facing no great threat to its stability, and doubled yet again when we’re talking about civil law enforcement intended to be used against people within the state society using the violence.

Something with a 50+ percent false positive rate shouldn’t constitute “probable cause” for a search.


You could always limit the use of dogs behind a warrant.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:07 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:Because people complain when the police use bullets to make people stop resisting arrest.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Several police k-9 units have died in the line of duty when officers fired on suspects that the dog was attacking.
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