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[DEFEATED] Self-Defence Education Compact

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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:35 pm

Wasn't there a ruling somewhere, that a proposal had to actually had to do what the title says? And if so, how much of said proposal had to do what the title says?
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:40 am

This is a self-defence proposal slightly interwoven with PE :P
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
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Polomon Islands
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Postby Polomon Islands » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:02 am

Tinhampton wrote:This is a self-defence proposal slightly interwoven with PE :P

Oh ok.
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Xernon
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Postby Xernon » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:13 pm

It's an interesting idea, but one that I feel is not really an international issue warranting WA intervention. I can think of a number of other topics that may warrant WA intervention into member nations' educational policies. This is not really one of them.
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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:48 pm

Tinhampton wrote:This is a self-defence proposal slightly interwoven with PE :P

It’s a four line omnibus bill that blocks both further self defence regulation and physical education legislation. Now I am not opposed to the idea of blockers on both subjects, should they actually become hot button topic. Honestly when was the last time we had a 40 page thread on a phys ed, or self defence resolution? This honestly comes off a solution looking for a problem. No support from me.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:30 pm

Anderson: The real proposal "that blocks further self defence regulation" is Ambassador Bell's Self-Defense Compact. Does anybody else have any comments about the actual content of our delegation's proposal?
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
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Xanthorrhoea
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Postby Xanthorrhoea » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:02 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Anderson: The real proposal "that blocks further self defence regulation" is Ambassador Bell's Self-Defense Compact. Does anybody else have any comments about the actual content of our delegation's proposal?

In all honesty (in my mind) this is the least effective way to approach the problem of crime and assault. I’d much rather have improved education on issues like consent/empathy, and put funding towards reducing societal influences on violence/better policing etc.

To use the news article that inspired this proposal as an example, it is frankly laughable that the young lady that died could have stopped a knife-wielding opponent with basic ‘school level’ self defence techniques. Once she was in that situation and he grabbed a knife, there was very little she could have done, even with training. The best way to stop that happening again is through preventative measures, not teaching people to fight back. It’s similar to the gun situation in the US. Giving everyone more ways to fight simply leads to escalation.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:41 pm

To reiterate that Article c currently contains provision for education "on the importance and safe execution of basic unarmed self-defence, de-escalating and preventing small-scale conflict situations, and escape from life-threatening situations," as was discussed on Monday. I'd be open in principle to Xanthorrhoea's preferred course of action, but do not want to take the content of this bill extremely far from its original and current intention.

I would note that James Gray's quest to enshrine self-defence lessons in the National Curriculum never culminated in a bill - although many other important issues have admittedly arisen since February 2020. I originally wrote this proposal on the day that Ellie Gould: Murdered girl's friends call for self-defence lessons was published but never bothered to forum-draft it for the first 54 weeks of its existence... goddamnit, Xant, you're making me think of the Teach The Future campaign that was gathering steam around the same time and was one surprise COVID briefing away from talking with the then-Education Secretary about their demands to require teaching on climate change
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:52 pm

Still wanna go forward with this sooner - rather than later :P
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
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Goobergunchia
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Postby Goobergunchia » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:11 pm

We are unsure as to how this proposal accounts for students with disabilities?

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:20 am

Anderson: I would once again like to express my confidence that a functional education system would find some means of ensuring full compliance with Article b - perhaps including disability sports, which I understand are played in many member states, and including students in participatory but non-competitive roles such as refereeing or coaching.
As for Article c, I fail to see how those with severe physical disabilities cannot also benefit from learning about how to defend themselves. I have always been adamant that there is no one necessarily right way of safe and effective self-defence, and this resolution gives schools and teachers the flexibility to adapt the methods they use depending on the ability of the student.
Students with severe mental disabilities are a bit of a different case, but I would note that there are many other resolutions requiring member states to educate all of their inhabitants, no matter their mental capacity, on certain subjects. Take, for example, "management of personal savings," which Resolution Four Seventy-Four requires everybody to learn about even if they have so little capacity to actually manage their finances that they require someone with power of attorney to do so.
Alexander Smith, Tinhamptonian Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: This made quorum in less than eight hours, also. Again. That figure is growing by the arbitrary twenty-five-minute period or thereabouts. Do pencil the beginning of voting at 5am on Thursday 9th December and the end four days later, Monday 13th December, in your diaries.

AS OF 1220 GMT ON THURSDAY: Approvals: 82 out of 59 needed (Tinhampton, Albrook, Treadwellia, The Scottish Republic, Enlais, Tevaris, TESDAI, Queenbury, The Finntopian Empire, Polomon Islands, Zeiling, Free Liberties, NinjitsUtopia, Sedgistan, Kokhestan, Dow Salold Islands, Tyslonia, Potenzia, Auxorii, Elyrethusa, Prussia-Saxon, Krovx Indochina, Islan Messh, 15th Scottish Highlanders Division, Fluvannia, The Bolivian Socialist Falange, Embreydo, Cadmy, Zombiedolphins, South Doge Land, Artemiso, Republic of Blank, Koslovenia, The Flyin, Ratification Of Your Mom, The Anarchist Federation of Spain, The Greastest Nation, KurentSlavija, Xukong, Langenia, Budgie Snugglers, Goatia, The Free Columbian States, Particle, Quebec and Labrador, Democratic anti veganist state, Socialization, The Free Northern Isles, Telgan Alpha, Estathuania, Novum Orientis, United Zephation, Kinben-ism, Candanadium, Fachumonn, Onionist Randosia, Wadelhelpia, Willtechia, Wisea, Flasankia, Yaxopsville, The Eurasian SFSR, Johill, Seveshka, Fsdh E, Telperian, Recycling Bins, Amerion, Viktorovitch, Kalanaria, Boiledcabbage, Ameritz, Roudeleiw, Marchas, The Tinfields, Boreguard, Laketovia, New Megaton, Ric Belli, The Communists of the Multiversal Empire, Satn, Setne)

And, as you can see on the projector screen - maybe not because the writing's small and I had to get all those names on one slide - approved by 8.4% of all eligible delegates in eighteen hours. This was our secret to success:
Greetings, Delegate. I ask today that you approve Self-Defence Education Compact.

My proposal would require schools in member states to educate their pupils about basic self-defence.

It will also help students learn about how to de-escalate, avoid and escape small-scale conflict.

If you believe that individuals should be empowered to keep themselves safe from violent and potentially fatal crime, then I encourage you to approve the Self-Defence Education Compact.

Thank you,
The Self-Administrative City of Tinhampton
Last edited by Tinhampton on Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

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Seppen
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Postby Seppen » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:36 am

Xanthorrhoea wrote:A more effective proposal in my mind would require training on how to recognise and avoid dangerous situations, and how to de-escalate and escape, rather than how to fight. If you’re in a fight, you’ve already lost.

This is what I think it should be taught in schools. That proposal, no matter how noble your intentions are, will encourage school to teach "violence as a solution".

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:40 am

Seppen wrote:
Xanthorrhoea wrote:A more effective proposal in my mind would require training on how to recognise and avoid dangerous situations, and how to de-escalate and escape, rather than how to fight. If you’re in a fight, you’ve already lost.

This is what I think it should be taught in schools. That proposal, no matter how noble your intentions are, will encourage school to teach "violence as a solution".

I added the provisions about de-escalation, escape and avoidance that Xanthorrhoea was calling for into this draft a week ago. It has been submitted with those provisions included.

AS OF 1440 GMT ON SUNDAY: Approvals: 112 out of 60 needed (Tinhampton, Albrook, Treadwellia, The Scottish Republic, Enlais, Tevaris, TESDAI, Queenbury, The Finntopian Empire, Polomon Islands, Zeiling, Free Liberties, NinjitsUtopia, Sedgistan, Dow Salold Islands, Tyslonia, Potenzia, Auxorii, Elyrethusa, Prussia-Saxon, Krovx Indochina, Islan Messh, 15th Scottish Highlanders Division, Fluvannia, The Bolivian Socialist Falange, Embreydo, Cadmy, Zombiedolphins, South Doge Land, Artemiso, Republic of Blank, Koslovenia, The Flyin, Ratification Of Your Mom, The Anarchist Federation of Spain, The Greastest Nation, KurentSlavija, Xukong, Langenia, Budgie Snugglers, Goatia, The Free Columbian States, Particle, Quebec and Labrador, Democratic anti veganist state, Socialization, The Free Northern Isles, Telgan Alpha, Estathuania, Novum Orientis, United Zephation, Kinben-ism, Candanadium, Fachumonn, Onionist Randosia, Wadelhelpia, Willtechia, Wisea, Flasankia, Yaxopsville, The Eurasian SFSR, Johill, Seveshka, Fsdh E, Telperian, Amerion, Viktorovitch, Kalanaria, Boiledcabbage, Ameritz, Roudeleiw, Marchas, The Tinfields, Boreguard, Laketovia, New Megaton, Ric Belli, The Communists of the Multiversal Empire, Satn, Setne, Galaxiak, Ceneopia Hana, Baloo Kingdom, Sailiopia, Bearded Dragones, Jentrad, Wischland, Tau Ceti Omega, Foreignaid, Stonehave, Meink, Very totally free, Pasaistan, Komrat, Baccalieu, Vipathe, Ravko, Chairman Cities, Carie Neopitzia, The Isles of Bermuda, Mardatan, The Dark Crusaders, The Age of Utopia, WinkyMaster, Bayin, Free Woritanarbio Islands, Calnodia, The United Provinces of North America, Desertiania, Nesya, Libonesia, Battadia)
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

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Seppen
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Postby Seppen » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:00 am

Tinhampton wrote:mandates that schools, as part of their physical education curriculum, deliver practical lessons to all of their students on the importance and safe execution of basic unarmed self-defence

I was talking about that above. As conviced pacifist and antimilitarist, I think that schools should never teach violence (both physical or other forms), not even as defensive solution.

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Sylh Alanor
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Postby Sylh Alanor » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:32 pm

Seppen wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:mandates that schools, as part of their physical education curriculum, deliver practical lessons to all of their students on the importance and safe execution of basic unarmed self-defence

I was talking about that above. As conviced pacifist and antimilitarist, I think that schools should never teach violence (both physical or other forms), not even as defensive solution.

This is where I'm at as well. I think I'd be fine with this proposal if it wasn't mandatory. My nation (admittedly an exception here) is entirely non-violent and the people in it are pacifists. They have no need to address how to mitigate violence or potential violence in situations, making pushing this into classes a waste of time. If it were a requirement to provide this as an elective for primary and secondary schools, I wouldn't mind it.
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Triseria
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Postby Triseria » Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:57 pm

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The Europeian Ministry of World Assembly Affairs recommends a vote AGAINST the General Assembly Resolution, "Self-Defence Education Compact".
Its reasoning may be found here.


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Herby
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Postby Herby » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:13 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Does anybody else have any comments about the actual content of our delegation's proposal?

Yeah. It sucks. Mandating primary school kids like first graders take self defense classes? Yeah that’s gonna go over well. Absofuckinglutely ridiculous.
Last edited by Herby on Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Setne
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Postby Setne » Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:23 pm

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The Creatopia Assembly Board has cast their votes, we vote AGAINST GA : "Self-Defence Education Compact" we encourage other members to vote against the resolution as well.

Understanding that this resolution has good intentions on lecturing about self-defence, it fails to realize that such teachings would be ineffective for those unwilling to use force, this also advocates the use of arms which would, although help victims in situations of harm, would just enable people to hurt other people as well. For such reasons, we vote against the resolution.
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Croanique
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Postby Croanique » Wed Dec 08, 2021 11:35 pm

As a nation which has outlawed guns (and encourages all others to do the same), we take issue with the implications of Article d. Furthermore, Croanique is a pacifist nation with a low crime rate, and we cannot encourage the use of violence among our youngest citizens, even as self-defense. There's nothing stopping anyone receiving a formal education regarding self-defense from using that knowledge to further harm others in non-defensive ways. Finally, we cannot support any resolution stressing the importance of staying "physically able" as though that is a choice everyone gets to make. Physical education classes are notoriously ableist and fatphobic environments which breed contempt among the majority of people and rarely teach much of anything valuable in a long-term sense. Croanique votes wholeheartedly AGAINST this resolution.

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Durgaven
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Postby Durgaven » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:27 am

Absolutely approve of this.

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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:46 am

As the title hint(ed), this was approved by a bit over 12% of delegates and is now at vote until Monday minor. Unfortunately it only seems to be gathering support from 15% of voters, the most powerful of which is me :P

For: 564: Tinhampton (37), Johanneslanden (20), Candanadium (16), Loush Land (12), Onionist Randosia (11), Satn (10), Kyuxcy (7), Refrigeratoria (6), The Communists of the Multiversal Empire (5), Marinonia (4), Deus Todo Poderoso (4), Smiley Bob (4), Swadonland (4), Roudeleiw (3), The Hazar Amisnery (3), Fickonong (3), Democratic anti veganist state (2), KurentSlavija (2), Free Woritanarbio Islands (2), Guerin Smith (2), IrelandElectricBoogaloo (2), and (405) individual member nations.

Against: 3,094: Albrook (726), Wischland (432), Imperium Anglorum (411), Duby (279), Luna State (196), Lesser Velutaria (113), ShrewLlamaLand (98), Sylh Alanor (75), Octal (44), Dabberwocky (33), Orioni 2 (24), NewTexas (22), Owswaldia (20), Draganisia (12), Vegaga (11), Trovons (8), Gatchina (8), Chodean Kal (8), Otaku Stratus (8), The Soviet state of Svalbard (7), Captain Woodhouse (6), The Palentine (5), Setne (4), The Klevs (3), The Isles of Bermuda (3), Barak Khalad (3), Republic of Washinton (3), Herby (3), Avalon Nova (2), Arkilandic (2), Majajaya (2), The Tinfields (2), Rolenmar (2), Suvalov (2), Jruhld (2), Western Isles Of Denmark (2), The Leine Land (2), Sedgistan (2), Xukong (2), Shnrubton (2), and (505) individual member nations.

Croanique wrote:As a nation which has outlawed guns (and encourages all others to do the same), we take issue with the implications of Article d.

Non-binding article.

For the 4,384,028,506th time - SDEC does not in principle require or prescribe that any form of self-defence be taught by schools.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

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Ichirokuhachi
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Founded: Oct 17, 2021
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Postby Ichirokuhachi » Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:07 am

The Commonwealth SUPPORTS this proposition.
We humbly request other states to reciprocate our sentiments.
Knowledge in self-defence is a vital and potentially life-saving measure to ensure the safety of citizens, most importantly the children of our nations.
Our Parliament believes it is only proper that we teach the future of our establishments the fundamentals of the arts and the promotion of physical fitness.
Last edited by Ichirokuhachi on Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kadinatia
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Postby Kadinatia » Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:58 am

Tinhampton wrote:Non-binding article.

For the 4,384,028,506th time - SDEC does not in principle require or prescribe that any form of self-defence be taught by schools.

Genuine question, then: what exactly is the point?

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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:08 am

Kadinatia wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Non-binding article.

For the 4,384,028,506th time - SDEC does not in principle require or prescribe that any form of self-defence be taught by schools.

Genuine question, then: what exactly is the point?

"Improving the world" is the GA's only stated goal. It is my belief that helping decent and well-meaning people protect themselves against unwarranted attack - as well as to reduce the likelihood of serious harm should the worst happen to them - is a form of such improvement.

The reason why I require that self-defence be taught without ordering schools to teach any one form of self-defence is to ensure that schools have the flexibility to deliver culturally appropriate training on self-defence.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; possibly very controversial; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 46yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate; currently reading nothing much

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Martinianos
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Founded: Dec 07, 2021
Anarchy

Postby Martinianos » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:18 am

"If we teach the people to defend themselves, we don't have to pay a police force. Less taxes!"

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