Kyle Rittenhouse goes to trial

[Gravlen]

Well, the rioters aren't noted for being that bright.

Naturally, otherwise they wouldn't be rioters

There is, of course, no evidence that the people shot were rioters. Not that it's going to stop certain people from pretending that they were.

Rosenbaum was homeless after having been released from the hospital after a suicide attempt, and based on his reported behaviour he was having a mental health crisis at the time.

Huber, a friend of Jacob Blake, had gone to the scene of the unrest to document the demonstrations for posterity according to his girlfriend Gittings.

Grosskreutz was supposedly there as a medic to help out with medical care.

As to why they were assaulting Rittenhouse, it's hard to know what set Rosenbaum off. It may have been that Rittenhouse was armed (He was at one point asking armed people to shoot him), it may have been something else.

Huber most likely thought he was seeing someone who'd just shot and killed someone, and tried to stop the shooter from getting away or killing others. His girlfriend suggests he was trying to protect her.

Grosskreutz... you'd have to ask him.

[The Alma Mater]

Naturally, otherwise they wouldn't be rioters

There is, of course, no evidence that the people shot were rioters. Not that it's going to stop certain people from pretending that they were.

Rosenbaum is on video setting fires, throwing rocks and calling protesters "the n-word". While one can attribute that to his mental condition, rioter does seem to fit.

[Galactic Transylvania]

Rosenbaum was homeless after having been released from the hospital after a suicide attempt, and based on his reported behaviour he was having a mental health crisis at the time.

I will grant that Huber perhaps has a more complicated involvement in the scene.

But let's not conflate mental health issues with excuses.

[Senkaku]

Rosenbaum was homeless after having been released from the hospital after a suicide attempt, and based on his reported behaviour he was having a mental health crisis at the time.

I will grant that Huber perhaps has a more complicated involvement in the scene.

But let's not conflate mental health issues with excuses.

Sure, but let’s also not enable right-wing stigmatization of the mentally ill as undesirables whose liquidation should be celebrated if they ever become disruptive or frightening or dangerous.

[Galactic Transylvania]

I will grant that Huber perhaps has a more complicated involvement in the scene.

But let's not conflate mental health issues with excuses.

Sure, but let’s also not enable right-wing stigmatization of the mentally ill as undesirables whose liquidation should be celebrated if they ever become disruptive or frightening or dangerous.

If someone threatens to kill me and grabs at my firearm I am shooting them. End of story.

It is not my job to determine why they are now a threat to my person. The fact is they have become a threat to my person and I have a right to defend myself from that threat.

I am under no obligation to cede my right to self defense because my assailant might not be purely sane.

[Gravlen]

There is, of course, no evidence that the people shot were rioters. Not that it's going to stop certain people from pretending that they were.

Rosenbaum is on video setting fires, throwing rocks and calling protesters "the n-word". While one can attribute that to his mental condition, rioter does seem to fit.

Fair enough, I suppose, but I think it's important to not forget his mental health situation. It seems a decisive element in the situation that took place.

[Galactic Transylvania]

Rosenbaum is on video setting fires, throwing rocks and calling protesters "the n-word". While one can attribute that to his mental condition, rioter does seem to fit.

Fair enough, I suppose, but I think it's important to not forget his mental health situation. It seems a decisive element in the situation that took place.

I don't see how. If someone assaults me there is no realistic way of me determining with any specificity whether they are or are not mentally ill. And even if I could, that doesn't negate the threat they pose to me.

I suppose it's important in judging the man as a person, but in terms of whether the shoot was clean or not it's irrelevant.

[Senkaku]

Sure, but let’s also not enable right-wing stigmatization of the mentally ill as undesirables whose liquidation should be celebrated if they ever become disruptive or frightening or dangerous.

If someone threatens to kill me and grabs at my firearm I am shooting them. End of story.

It is not my job to determine why they are now a threat to my person. The fact is they have become a threat to my person and I have a right to defend myself from that threat.

I am under no obligation to cede my right to self defense because my assailant might not be purely sane.

I didn’t disagree with any of that? The circumstances and specific blow-by-blow of the actual scuffle are the least interesting, most discussed, and least important element of this story at this point; it’s the media discourse around it that’s become of actual political concern.

The issue is not that Rittenhouse shot him, under the circumstances. The issue is that he was there in the first place rather than receiving care, and that his death is now being celebrated as the righteous putting-down of a faceless “rioter” whose personhood and motives are erased and left unexamined. As a consequence, the sort of truly vicious paramilitarism that some people seem to believe Rittenhouse was engaged in will actually be emboldened, while vulnerable (and dangerous, especially to themselves) people like Rosenbaum will continue to have their needs go unaddressed and end up in the line of fire.

[Gravlen]

Fair enough, I suppose, but I think it's important to not forget his mental health situation. It seems a decisive element in the situation that took place.

I don't see how.

Seems to be because you are only looking at one thing, namely the question of whether Rittenhouse's course of action constitutes justifiable self-defence, instead of looking at the whole situation in order to understand all of the events that took place. Which is odd, considering that you posed the question "Why were these people [...] assaulting a guy who was strapped?"

If you want to understand why Rosenbaum did what he did, but you don't understand how the assailants mental health situation is an important element, I don't know what to tell you.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I don't see how.

Seems to be because you are only looking at one thing, namely the question of whether Rittenhouse's course of action constitutes justifiable self-defence, instead of looking at the whole situation in order to understand all of the events that took place. Which is odd, considering that you posed the question "Why were these people [...] assaulting a guy who was strapped?"

If you want to understand why Rosenbaum did what he did, but you don't understand how the assailants mental health situation is an important element, I don't know what to tell you.

From all the digging my husband did, it seems Rosenbaum was bipolar. He was homeless after a domestic violence incident with his then girlfriend and suicide attempt, he was placed on psychiatric hold for 24-48 hours, iirc. He was given a prescription for his medication, but for reasons I’m not sure, it was not fulfilled. He tried to go to his girlfriend’s, but he was under a restraining order. He wasn’t medicated. It’s very possible he was going through an episode stemming from all that had happened prior to him going to the Kenosha riot. Not justifiable, his involvement, but his diminished mental capacity from his bipolar disorder and depression condition may have contributed to his reckless behavior and ultimately, his demise.

If you want more info, he can fill you in.

[Gravlen]

Seems to be because you are only looking at one thing, namely the question of whether Rittenhouse's course of action constitutes justifiable self-defence, instead of looking at the whole situation in order to understand all of the events that took place. Which is odd, considering that you posed the question "Why were these people [...] assaulting a guy who was strapped?"

If you want to understand why Rosenbaum did what he did, but you don't understand how the assailants mental health situation is an important element, I don't know what to tell you.

From all the digging my husband did, it seems Rosenbaum was bipolar. He was homeless after a domestic violence incident with his then girlfriend and suicide attempt, he was placed on psychiatric hold for 24-48 hours, iirc. He was given a prescription for his medication, but for reasons I’m not sure, it was not fulfilled. He tried to go to his girlfriend’s, but he was under a restraining order. He wasn’t medicated. It’s very possible he was going through an episode stemming from all that had happened prior to him going to the Kenosha riot. Not justifiable, his involvement, but his diminished mental capacity from his bipolar disorder and depression condition may have contributed to his reckless behavior and ultimately, his demise.

If you want more info, he can fill you in.

I've not heard anything about a restraining order, unless that was by his former girlfriend? All I can tell you is that his fiancée testified to a somewhat different set of facts during the trial.

This contrasted considerably with testimony on Friday from Rosenbaum’s fiancée, Kariann Swart, an Illinois native who met Rosenbaum in August of 2019 and began a romantic relationship with him. She described Rosenbaum as “a very animated person.”

Swart explained that Rosenbaum was originally from Waco, Texas, and had recently moved to Kenosha around the time they met to be closer to his daughter who lived there. She and Rosenbaum were both homeless when they met and lived together at a motel in the Kenosha area at the time of his death.

Rosenbaum was discharged from a Milwaukee hospital on Aug. 25, 2020, and returned to the motel and Swart that afternoon.

She also confirmed he had been taking medications for bipolar disorder (generally, I mean. This to confirm that he had bipolar disorder, not to say he was medicated on the 25th.)

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

From all the digging my husband did, it seems Rosenbaum was bipolar. He was homeless after a domestic violence incident with his then girlfriend and suicide attempt, he was placed on psychiatric hold for 24-48 hours, iirc. He was given a prescription for his medication, but for reasons I’m not sure, it was not fulfilled. He tried to go to his girlfriend’s, but he was under a restraining order. He wasn’t medicated. It’s very possible he was going through an episode stemming from all that had happened prior to him going to the Kenosha riot. Not justifiable, his involvement, but his diminished mental capacity from his bipolar disorder and depression condition may have contributed to his reckless behavior and ultimately, his demise.

If you want more info, he can fill you in.

I've not heard anything about a restraining order, unless that was by his former girlfriend? All I can tell you is that his fiancée testified to a somewhat different set of facts during the trial.

This contrasted considerably with testimony on Friday from Rosenbaum’s fiancée, Kariann Swart, an Illinois native who met Rosenbaum in August of 2019 and began a romantic relationship with him. She described Rosenbaum as “a very animated person.”

Swart explained that Rosenbaum was originally from Waco, Texas, and had recently moved to Kenosha around the time they met to be closer to his daughter who lived there. She and Rosenbaum were both homeless when they met and lived together at a motel in the Kenosha area at the time of his death.

Rosenbaum was discharged from a Milwaukee hospital on Aug. 25, 2020, and returned to the motel and Swart that afternoon.

She also confirmed he had been taking medications for bipolar disorder (generally, I mean. This to confirm that he had bipolar disorder, not to say he was medicated on the 25th.)

I could be misremembering, point. Gallo can chime in if he wants. Either way, being depressed, having been at hospital for a suicide attempt, frail mental state and the powder keg a riot is can explain why he behaved the way he did.

[Gravlen]

I've not heard anything about a restraining order, unless that was by his former girlfriend? All I can tell you is that his fiancée testified to a somewhat different set of facts during the trial.

This contrasted considerably with testimony on Friday from Rosenbaum’s fiancée, Kariann Swart, an Illinois native who met Rosenbaum in August of 2019 and began a romantic relationship with him. She described Rosenbaum as “a very animated person.”

Swart explained that Rosenbaum was originally from Waco, Texas, and had recently moved to Kenosha around the time they met to be closer to his daughter who lived there. She and Rosenbaum were both homeless when they met and lived together at a motel in the Kenosha area at the time of his death.

Rosenbaum was discharged from a Milwaukee hospital on Aug. 25, 2020, and returned to the motel and Swart that afternoon.

She also confirmed he had been taking medications for bipolar disorder (generally, I mean. This to confirm that he had bipolar disorder, not to say he was medicated on the 25th.)

I could be misremembering, point. Gallo can chime in if he wants. Either way, being depressed, having been at hospital for a suicide attempt, frail mental state and the powder keg a riot is can explain why he behaved the way he did.

It can indeed. There are strong indications that he should not have been released by the hospital on the day in question, and unanswered questions concerning whether he got the care and treatment he needed.

It's very likely lives would have been saved if he had remained there for just an extra night.

[Kubra]

And suffered the consequences.

Generally speaking assaulting someone who is visibly armed is not really in your self interest.

For all the talk about "why was Kyle even there?" and "where was his common sense approaching the crowd like that?" I have yet to hear someone ask the question "Why were these people engaging in a riot and assaulting a guy who was strapped?"

Riots are more like a weather phenomenon. Sometimes they start over stakes much lower than actual politics.

[Reploid Productions]

Y E S

Kid yeet'd 3 criminals and walked. Bliss.

Cope, seethe and riot BLM commies.

Your first post in over two years and straight back to trolling? *** Sahin K 3-day ban for trolling ***

Y E S

Kid yeet'd 3 criminals and walked. Bliss.

Cope, seethe and riot BLM commies.

Amen

Quoting the blatant trolling and basically going "^this" is a good way to get yourself smacked for trolling, too.

~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Grinning Dragon]

I could be misremembering, point. Gallo can chime in if he wants. Either way, being depressed, having been at hospital for a suicide attempt, frail mental state and the powder keg a riot is can explain why he behaved the way he did.

It can indeed. There are strong indications that he should not have been released by the hospital on the day in question, and unanswered questions concerning whether he got the care and treatment he needed.

It's very likely lives would have been saved if he had remained there for just an extra night.

To be frank in the hind sight is 20/20 dept., the hospital staff would have been none the wiser as to whether rosenbaum would engage in riotous activities that day.

[Galactic Transylvania]

It can indeed. There are strong indications that he should not have been released by the hospital on the day in question, and unanswered questions concerning whether he got the care and treatment he needed.

It's very likely lives would have been saved if he had remained there for just an extra night.

To be frank in the hind sight is 20/20 dept., the hospital staff would have been none the wiser as to whether rosenbaum would engage in riotous activities that day.

Not to mention that 5150s, or whatever the Wisconsin term for a psych hold is, are incredibly limited and specifically only allow the hospital to involuntarily hold you for 24-48 hours depending on the jurisdiction.

Actually committing someone much past that without some pretty explicit statements of imminent self harm or the consent of the patient is incredibly legally difficult to the point of being near impossible in some states.

[Galloism]

From all the digging my husband did, it seems Rosenbaum was bipolar. He was homeless after a domestic violence incident with his then girlfriend and suicide attempt, he was placed on psychiatric hold for 24-48 hours, iirc. He was given a prescription for his medication, but for reasons I’m not sure, it was not fulfilled. He tried to go to his girlfriend’s, but he was under a restraining order. He wasn’t medicated. It’s very possible he was going through an episode stemming from all that had happened prior to him going to the Kenosha riot. Not justifiable, his involvement, but his diminished mental capacity from his bipolar disorder and depression condition may have contributed to his reckless behavior and ultimately, his demise.

If you want more info, he can fill you in.

I've not heard anything about a restraining order, unless that was by his former girlfriend? All I can tell you is that his fiancée testified to a somewhat different set of facts during the trial.

This contrasted considerably with testimony on Friday from Rosenbaum’s fiancée, Kariann Swart, an Illinois native who met Rosenbaum in August of 2019 and began a romantic relationship with him. She described Rosenbaum as “a very animated person.”

Swart explained that Rosenbaum was originally from Waco, Texas, and had recently moved to Kenosha around the time they met to be closer to his daughter who lived there. She and Rosenbaum were both homeless when they met and lived together at a motel in the Kenosha area at the time of his death.

Rosenbaum was discharged from a Milwaukee hospital on Aug. 25, 2020, and returned to the motel and Swart that afternoon.

She also confirmed he had been taking medications for bipolar disorder (generally, I mean. This to confirm that he had bipolar disorder, not to say he was medicated on the 25th.)

It's from the Wisconsin court system for his bail jumping related to his domestic violence charge.

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.ht ... de=details

08-20-2020 Adjourned initial appearance Mason, Jon G. CD
Additional text:
201-205PM Special Prosecutor Ian Hackett appeared for the State. Defendant in custody and appeared in court w/ Attorney Kristyne Watson. Clerk JT Minutes: - all by Zoom. The Court finds probable cause in this case today. Plea of Not Guilty entered. Final pre-trial scheduled for September 3, 2020 at 09:30 am. $1500 Signature Bond Set w/conditions (see bond event).

08-20-2020 Signature bond set for Rosenbaum, Joseph D. Mason, Jon G. CD $1,500.00
Additional text:
*Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn

08-21-2020 Signature bond signed
Additional text:
$1500 kmk

He had been released on 8/21/2020 (four days prior) on a $1500 bond, with a no contact order for Kariann Swart.

[Ethel mermania]

I've not heard anything about a restraining order, unless that was by his former girlfriend? All I can tell you is that his fiancée testified to a somewhat different set of facts during the trial.

This contrasted considerably with testimony on Friday from Rosenbaum’s fiancée, Kariann Swart, an Illinois native who met Rosenbaum in August of 2019 and began a romantic relationship with him. She described Rosenbaum as “a very animated person.”

Swart explained that Rosenbaum was originally from Waco, Texas, and had recently moved to Kenosha around the time they met to be closer to his daughter who lived there. She and Rosenbaum were both homeless when they met and lived together at a motel in the Kenosha area at the time of his death.

Rosenbaum was discharged from a Milwaukee hospital on Aug. 25, 2020, and returned to the motel and Swart that afternoon.

She also confirmed he had been taking medications for bipolar disorder (generally, I mean. This to confirm that he had bipolar disorder, not to say he was medicated on the 25th.)

It's from the Wisconsin court system for his bail jumping related to his domestic violence charge.

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.ht ... de=details

08-20-2020 Adjourned initial appearance Mason, Jon G. CD
Additional text:
201-205PM Special Prosecutor Ian Hackett appeared for the State. Defendant in custody and appeared in court w/ Attorney Kristyne Watson. Clerk JT Minutes: - all by Zoom. The Court finds probable cause in this case today. Plea of Not Guilty entered. Final pre-trial scheduled for September 3, 2020 at 09:30 am. $1500 Signature Bond Set w/conditions (see bond event).

08-20-2020 Signature bond set for Rosenbaum, Joseph D. Mason, Jon G. CD $1,500.00
Additional text:
*Not to Possess or Consume Alcohol. *Not To Possess or Consume Controlled Substances w/o a Prescription. No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Park Ridge Inn

08-21-2020 Signature bond signed
Additional text:
$1500 kmk

He had been released on 8/21/2020 (four days prior) on a $1500 bond, with a no contact order for Kariann Swart.

When we as a society coddle criminals instead of protecting the innocent this is what happens. Look at the idiot in Kenosha, or our looters in San Francisco.

[Galloism]

He had been released on 8/21/2020 (four days prior) on a $1500 bond, with a no contact order for Kariann Swart.

When we as a society coddle criminals instead of protecting the innocent this is what happens. Look at the idiot in Kenosha, or our looters in San Francisco.

Well, I think this order made him homeless. Here's the original case for domestic violence that specifically states Kariann Swart is the victim:

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.ht ... de=details

07-20-2020 Signature bond set for Rosenbaum, Joseph Don Keating, Loren CD $1,000.00
Additional text:
No contact including the residence, electronic or 3rd party with: Kariann S, Matthew K. The DE may make arrangements with a party or law enforcement to retrieve personal property and/or medication from the victim's Kariann S residence within 24 hours of signing the bond in this case. The DE may not be the party retrieving any property and/or medication.

Of course, all this was dismissed after his death.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

It's from the Wisconsin court system for his bail jumping related to his domestic violence charge.

https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.ht ... de=details



He had been released on 8/21/2020 (four days prior) on a $1500 bond, with a no contact order for Kariann Swart.

When we as a society coddle criminals instead of protecting the innocent this is what happens. Look at the idiot in Kenosha, or our looters in San Francisco.

Or that bail-jumper (out on bail for attempted homicide with a motor-vehicle) that plowed an SUV through a dancing grandma parade. Killing 5 and injuring 40+ for this thanksgiving.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I could be misremembering, point. Gallo can chime in if he wants. Either way, being depressed, having been at hospital for a suicide attempt, frail mental state and the powder keg a riot is can explain why he behaved the way he did.

It can indeed. There are strong indications that he should not have been released by the hospital on the day in question, and unanswered questions concerning whether he got the care and treatment he needed.

It's very likely lives would have been saved if he had remained there for just an extra night.

Perhaps. Hindsight and all. That whole situation was a clusterfuck from start to finish.

[Galloism]

Also, I misspoke earlier about the curfew charge being dismissed because it was possibly issued illegally.

It possibly WAS issued illegally (the courts in Kenosha have been throwing it out pretty regularly), but in THIS case it was dismissed because the state never presented any evidence that he was in violation of a lawfully issued curfew in court. They charged it and never talked about it again.

[Fartsniffage]

Donald Trump did so much damage to law and order in the US.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... c-n1241581

[Albrenia]

Donald Trump did so much damage to law and order in the US.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nation ... c-n1241581

Considering some Democrats made the same mistake in the opposite direction, I think someone needs to teach US politicians to shut up about ongoing court cases. Commenting afterwards isn't so bad though.