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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6555
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:37 am

Sedgistan wrote:That probably falls under the umbrella of Rule 3a - "In some circumstances rules violations may be legal to refer to in a proposal - you must always request a ruling prior to submission if you wish to do this."

Some things, like referring to Milograd's coups, or Cormac's delegacy of wherever, are innocuous and likely fine. Others, of which I'm sure we can all imagine plenty of examples, would get a firm "no chance" from Moderation.


Thanks Sedge, makes sense.
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Terra Animo
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 42
Founded: Oct 29, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Terra Animo » Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:13 am

Would a PSA pertaining to the well-being of nation’s citizens be appropriate for a SC declaration?

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Rick Perry
Diplomat
 
Posts: 767
Founded: Sep 24, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rick Perry » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:42 pm

What is the point of condemning if it only gives the nation a badge?
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Comfed
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1454
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:46 pm

Rick Perry wrote:What is the point of condemning if it only gives the nation a badge?

Recognition.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 3483
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:46 pm

Rick Perry wrote:What is the point of condemning if it only gives the nation a badge?

It is recognition that a nation or region has managed to play the black hat for a long period of time.

Which is why the SC avoids rewarding players that have been puppet swept and had their main deleted.
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Thousand Branches
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thousand Branches » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:39 pm

Is there a separate list somewhere for the rules of SC declarations? Or is that just under the regular rules? I couldn’t find it if it is
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Wayneactia
Minister
 
Posts: 3055
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:55 pm

Thousand Branches wrote:Is there a separate list somewhere for the rules of SC declarations? Or is that just under the regular rules? I couldn’t find it if it is

They follow the same standard rules as the Security Council.
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RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Thousand Branches
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thousand Branches » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:05 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Thousand Branches wrote:Is there a separate list somewhere for the rules of SC declarations? Or is that just under the regular rules? I couldn’t find it if it is

They follow the same standard rules as the Security Council.

Ah thank you! Is there then a place that outlines what a declaration actually is in simple terms? Like what it does?
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Wayneactia
Minister
 
Posts: 3055
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:07 pm

Thousand Branches wrote:
Wayneactia wrote:They follow the same standard rules as the Security Council.

Ah thank you! Is there then a place that outlines what a declaration actually is in simple terms? Like what it does?

None that I have seen. Sedge may be able to direct you further though as he has been handling the declarations side of things.
Sarcasm dispensed liberally.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Sedgistan
Senior Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 31621
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:13 am

There isn't anything beyond the rules. I've been hoping someone might write a general (and unofficial) Guide to the SC, but the various attempts over the years haven't got anywhere.

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Thousand Branches
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thousand Branches » Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:16 pm

How do repeals work with declarations? How does relevant argument apply?
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Wayneactia
Minister
 
Posts: 3055
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:11 am

Thousand Branches wrote:How do repeals work with declarations? How does relevant argument apply?

You would argue the clauses of the declaration as any normal repeal?
Sarcasm dispensed liberally.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Sedgistan
Senior Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 31621
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:09 am

Same as ever - "it must address the contents of the resolution it is repealing".

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The Blaatschapen
Tech Modling
 
Posts: 61234
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:24 pm

If I were to describe Big Jim P's marriage to a fellow NSer as:

Being the first nation that had an extra-dimensional alliance based on mutual love and understanding with another nation.

Would that be legal?
Last edited by The Blaatschapen on Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sedgistan
Senior Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 31621
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:47 pm

I suspect there would be deep reluctance on the part of Moderators to allow anything that referred to personal characteristics of players and their personal lives. Same as when Tin's proposal Commending someone who had cancer got pulled.

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Thousand Branches
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thousand Branches » Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:55 pm

Question: I’m curious because of the Jakker repeal, how does 2a apply to DEAT/DOS players and the action of deleting a nation? I assume simply saying “deleted” would be illegal, but what is the generally accepted line for what is and isn’t legal there?
Last edited by Thousand Branches on Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lord Dominator
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8220
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:17 pm

Thousand Branches wrote:Question: I’m curious because of the Jakker repeal, how does 2a apply to DEAT/DOS players and the action of deleting a nation? I assume simply saying “deleted” would be illegal, but what is the generally accepted line for what is and isn’t legal there?

Kaboom’s series of Predator repeals are useful here for prior examples:
search.php?keywords=Kaboomlandia&t=7503&sf=msgonly

I personally was using “act of violet” both because that’s a reasonably literal description (at the very least, they made the announcement) and as far as I’m aware using violet as the local “God” so to speak is generally legal.

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Sedgistan
Senior Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 31621
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:10 am

There's a few ways of doing it legally, although "deleted" as a term wouldn't work. They key thing to remember is Rule 3b - request a mod ruling on legality first, before submitting.

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Thousand Branches
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thousand Branches » Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:02 am

How is the legality on mentioning the character limits for proposals?
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Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9796
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:23 am

Thousand Branches wrote:How is the legality on mentioning the character limits for proposals?

"Noting that NS Admin only lets me type up to a certain number of characters into this text box" - no.

"Noting that Nation X's accomplishments are too numerous to catalogue in their entirety, nevertheless detailing certain accomplishments such as: [list of whatever]" - yes.

With some decent writing you can get readers to infer it without breaking the rules.
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Thousand Branches
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thousand Branches » Fri Mar 04, 2022 9:48 am

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Thousand Branches wrote:How is the legality on mentioning the character limits for proposals?

"Noting that NS Admin only lets me type up to a certain number of characters into this text box" - no.

"Noting that Nation X's accomplishments are too numerous to catalogue in their entirety, nevertheless detailing certain accomplishments such as: [list of whatever]" - yes.

With some decent writing you can get readers to infer it without breaking the rules.

But a specific reference to the NS character limit would be illegal?
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Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9796
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:21 am

Thousand Branches wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:"Noting that NS Admin only lets me type up to a certain number of characters into this text box" - no.

"Noting that Nation X's accomplishments are too numerous to catalogue in their entirety, nevertheless detailing certain accomplishments such as: [list of whatever]" - yes.

With some decent writing you can get readers to infer it without breaking the rules.

But a specific reference to the NS character limit would be illegal?

Can't rule on a hypothetical beyond the guidance given above - I don't know what you mean by a "specific reference", I don't know the context, I can't give a ruling. If you're working on a draft and would like to get our take on it, by all means post it to the forum and we'll take a look.
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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10065
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:36 am

What - in your opinion - is the Security Council's direction of travel with apologies to James Heappey, eviscerator of free lateral flow tests in regards to raiding and defending?

Defenders have been, and will continue to be, Commended. Condemnations for raiders, however, are now widely seen as black commends/badges of honour for raiders, an argument that came to the forefront of the Condemn Raionitu back-and-forth. I'd be looking for defenders to start writing their own, particularly scathing, good-faith Condemnations (and TSP is huge on good faith, as they have been since the Commend Twobagger scandal).

Various raiding-adjacent declarations have been defeated: Against Quorum Raiding (by Jedinsto) was criticised for offering far too little leeway with the practice. With TNP moving away from the raider sphere over the Madjack delegacy, Thaecia being similarly scathing of raider groups and The League being a notable hard-line defender region, a redraft by Morover or a new symbolic decrying of the practice by another author could well pass... but only by a few hundred votes. It'll get repealed three weeks later anyway.

Against Destructive Raiding Practices was arguably too broad (and, like AQR, not too accomodating with certain forms of invasion widely believed to be acceptable). Aivintis has patched some holes with his redraft, but there are still other holes, I personally object to the concept of retaliatory justice, and not even a perfectly-written draft would be likely to pass.

On Raider Unity was criticised for being authored by a raider who wanted to paint his discipline in a negative light. Something along its lines could pass in future, but arguably only if written by a notable regional politician with little interest in R/D (such as Harkagrad) or an interested, active member of a roleplaying community (Eura? Chromatika? Lamoni? Northern New Solingarch????? Vancouvia?????????????). It could gut most of whatever symbolism is left in SC#52, if written particularly well.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Thousand Branches
Diplomat
 
Posts: 669
Founded: Jun 03, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Thousand Branches » Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:08 pm

Couple of small perspective questions. Would the proper pronoun in reference to the Security Council be we/our? In theory since resolutions are supposed to be from the perspective of the SC, you would be referring to the SC (and therefore yourself) as a body of individuals, and therefore we/our, yes? Just want to confirm.

Additionally, I know that SC resolutions have to be the WA speaking, can they be addressed to the nominee? I don’t believe a rule exists to prevent that but I’m also pretty sure nobody has tried before :p Anyway, what I mean by this would be basically, could I use you/yours in reference to the nominee? Say as if I were writing a letter to that person. Could I say like idk “We (the SC) has watched you (X nominee 1) grow throughout the many years you have graced this wide multiverse”
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Lord Dominator
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8220
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:38 pm

We/our would seem to be the correct pronouns.

I feel like addressing something to the nominee from the SC should be illegal, and that a reasonable view of the rules would prohibit it, but frustratingly I can not point to any particular ruling or description in R1 that says as much.

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