Bill Maher blames gaming, beards and bad attire for "incels"

[GuessTheAltAccount]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RthRU3wFDdY

So when he spreads the lie that the MMR vaccine causes autism, people flip their shit, but when he spreads the lie that "rejection" is what guys are afraid of, it's a-ok?

I mean, you could go by the video's own comment's section, filled to the brim with guys insisting what they're really afraid of is being falsely accused of sexual harassment, if not outright rape. Don't get me wrong, none of them can prove they mean it. But is entirely plausible that how bold to be in flirting has become a damned if you do, damned if you don't... too meek and mild about it, and there's nothing to stop word from getting out about how timid you are. But only recently has being too bold about it been considered rapey, and while that's understandable in light of recent events, there has been no alternative option that would be safe from false rape accusations. Even "affirmative consent" apps can't prove the consent wasn't under duress. And the court of public opinion, even after having been wrong about these things before, still acts like they know better than a judge and jury.

If it were just about fear of "rejection", wouldn't the expectation have been on women to make the first move? If males really are hornier and/or less picky, women have less risk of rejection anyway; not that I think either sex fears it as much as they're made out to. And if they aren't "hornier and/or less picky", then doesn't that make this stereotype the fault of its critics, for so often being so wrong about so much about the personal lives of those touting the stereotype, in the process undermining their own credibility and therefore bolstering that of the stereotype itself?

I mean, that sounds a lot more like something that has changed in recent years than the other things he mentioned. After all...

Video games: They have a reputation for being a problem even within relationships, so they alone cannot explain why a video game junkie isn't in a relationship in the first place.

Beards: Have you been to the mall lately? Plenty of bearded guys have a girl on their arm, and plenty of clean-shaven guys do not.

Bad attire: Again, have you been to the mall lately? Plenty of guys in hoodies, tattered jeans, whatever else, have a girl on their arm, and plenty of guys in the "button up shirts" Bill touts do not.

It seems like Bill uses these scapegoats to dance around the real issue. And what's funny is, usually he'd be the last to "dance around" any issue. Bill himself has made relationships out to incentivize toeing the line toward women's perspectives on various topics. To say nothing of his infamous outspokenness on other topics. Shame he sidestepped this one. What say you, NSG? What was the incentive to sidestep this one?

[The V I C]

Beards cause men to be incels? Explain every Muslim man who got married by 20.

Or Amish.
Or Hasidic Jew.

[Ifreann]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

[Senkaku]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has

[Ifreann]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has

You make a good point.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

Stupid or not, they're a product of someone who's otherwise-independent-minded enough to differ from the right on Trump and differ from the left on why the Mary Kay LeTourneau case is different from any gender flip thereof, and otherwise-outspoken enough to double down on his remarks no matter which side of the aisle gets pissed off.

Conventionally liberal and conventionally conservative talking points are a dime a dozen. Stuff that thinks outside the box is so much rarer we need to take what we can get. :/

[Tsaivao]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

Can we just quote this for the rest of the thread? Sums up my thoughts perfectly

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

Stupid or not, they're a product of someone who's otherwise-independent-minded enough to differ from the right on Trump and differ from the left on why the Mary Kay LeTourneau case is different from any gender flip thereof, and otherwise-outspoken enough to double down on his remarks no matter which side of the aisle gets pissed off.

Conventionally liberal and conventionally conservative talking points are a dime a dozen. Stuff that thinks outside the box is so much rarer we need to take what we can get. :/

Unique doesn't mean good. Just because an individual is able to piss off both sides of the aisle and take a new direction doesn't mean that this direction is significant or worthwhile. This is more or less why I'm often skeptical of most centrists I run into, as they sometimes (not always, I wanna stress, NOT ALWAYS!) believe in the things they do because somehow being in the middle of two extremes gives them some sense of a highground, even though it's another perspective same as anyone else's. Honestly the "middle of the road compromising and mildly-apathetic centrist" is the talking point I hear more than any other radical left or right opinion, mostly because I used to be that person and I literally used to think that being caught in the middle was just somehow better than either extreme. Of course, that's not how things work, and often it's much more fuzzy than even just sitting in the middle.

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

Can we just quote this for the rest of the thread? Sums up my thoughts perfectly

Stupid or not, they're a product of someone who's otherwise-independent-minded enough to differ from the right on Trump and differ from the left on why the Mary Kay LeTourneau case is different from any gender flip thereof, and otherwise-outspoken enough to double down on his remarks no matter which side of the aisle gets pissed off.

Conventionally liberal and conventionally conservative talking points are a dime a dozen. Stuff that thinks outside the box is so much rarer we need to take what we can get. :/

Unique doesn't mean good. Just because an individual is able to piss off both sides of the aisle and take a new direction doesn't mean that this direction is significant or worthwhile. This is more or less why I'm often skeptical of most centrists I run into, as they sometimes (not always, I wanna stress, NOT ALWAYS!) believe in the things they do because somehow being in the middle of two extremes gives them some sense of a highground, even though it's another perspective same as anyone else's. Honestly the "middle of the road compromising and mildly-apathetic centrist" is the talking point I hear more than any other radical left or right opinion, mostly because I used to be that person and I literally used to think that being caught in the middle was just somehow better than either extreme. Of course, that's not how things work, and often it's much more fuzzy than even just sitting in the middle.

"Middle ground" would imply something like "well, Trump is mediocre, neither good nor bad." Bill is unmistakable in his condemnation of Trump.

There's a difference between "middle ground" and "outside the box." A middle ground would be drawing a line between two opposing perspectives and settling on a position along the line. Independent thought implies looking outside that line in the first place.

[Xmara]

Bill Maher once insinuated that comic books were responsible for Trump’s election. Do you really think his opinion on this matters?

[The Reformed American Republic]

That's really stupid. I blame personal flaws of those in the incel community, lack of treatment for mental illness, and some societal problems for the incel problem.

[Dakini]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

It's been four posts since this was quoted so it needs to be quoted again.


Also, the problem with incels is entitlement. Lots of people go through periods where they struggle to get laid, incels feel like they're entitled to get laid. Usually by women who are way more attractive than they are and usually without doing basic things like looking after their own personal hygiene or making sure that their personality is, you know, remotely interesting.

[Ifreann]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

Stupid or not, they're a product of someone who's otherwise-independent-minded enough to differ from the right on Trump and differ from the left on why the Mary Kay LeTourneau case is different from any gender flip thereof, and otherwise-outspoken enough to double down on his remarks no matter which side of the aisle gets pissed off.

Conventionally liberal and conventionally conservative talking points are a dime a dozen. Stuff that thinks outside the box is so much rarer we need to take what we can get. :/

Maher doesn't think outside the box, he's basically a conservative.

[Ithalian Empire]

Oh god oh fuck.

I play video games.

I have a beard.

I wear worn out jeans and flannel, idk if that bad attire but whatever.

NSG, am I an incel now?

[Senkaku]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

Stupid or not, they're a product of someone who's otherwise-independent-minded enough to differ from the right on Trump and differ from the left on why the Mary Kay LeTourneau case is different from any gender flip thereof, and otherwise-outspoken enough to double down on his remarks no matter which side of the aisle gets pissed off.

Conventionally liberal and conventionally conservative talking points are a dime a dozen. Stuff that thinks outside the box is so much rarer we need to take what we can get. :/

Bill Maher is not “outside the box” lol he basically is the box

[Dakini]

Stupid or not, they're a product of someone who's otherwise-independent-minded enough to differ from the right on Trump and differ from the left on why the Mary Kay LeTourneau case is different from any gender flip thereof, and otherwise-outspoken enough to double down on his remarks no matter which side of the aisle gets pissed off.

Conventionally liberal and conventionally conservative talking points are a dime a dozen. Stuff that thinks outside the box is so much rarer we need to take what we can get. :/

Maher doesn't think outside the box, he's basically a conservative.

I mean, that's basically all centrists for you though, isn't it?

[Dakini]

NSG, am I an incel now?

Are you an angry misogynist who thinks that women should fuck you just because you're nice* to them?


*note: not actually nice

[The Holy Therns]

Oh right, that guy. The guy who when mentioned only triggers in me the thought "Wait, who was he again?"

[GuessTheAltAccount]

Stupid or not, they're a product of someone who's otherwise-independent-minded enough to differ from the right on Trump and differ from the left on why the Mary Kay LeTourneau case is different from any gender flip thereof, and otherwise-outspoken enough to double down on his remarks no matter which side of the aisle gets pissed off.

Conventionally liberal and conventionally conservative talking points are a dime a dozen. Stuff that thinks outside the box is so much rarer we need to take what we can get. :/

Maher doesn't think outside the box, he's basically a conservative.

Is "conservative" even definable though? History textbooks define it in terms of how much you value tradition, but that doesn't specify which traditions (medieval times? Primodial soup?) and though some of his reasoning resembles traditionalist reasoning he typically defends it without falling back on "tradition."

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

It's been four posts since this was quoted so it needs to be quoted again.


Also, the problem with incels is entitlement. Lots of people go through periods where they struggle to get laid, incels feel like they're entitled to get laid. Usually by women who are way more attractive than they are and usually without doing basic things like looking after their own personal hygiene or making sure that their personality is, you know, remotely interesting.

So do I count as an "incel" or not then? Because my opinions here are often characterized as "incel" opinions, but I look after my hygiene plenty, I'm not too picky about looks (other than were it severe obesity that'd make me look like I'm preying on her desperation) I don't get angry at individual women over rejection or anything like that, and my classmates considered my personality pretty interesting. Last time I was picky was in my junior high years, before I heard of how child support law worked (somehow infatuation is easier to feel when that isn't hanging over your head), and even then I was only picky in the sense of being selectively interested in my crushes. I'd have turned down other girls I thought of as pretty just as quickly as I'd have turned down other girls I thought of as ugly.

But only very recently have I gotten to a point where I could afford child support bills if the condom broke, and am now competing with guys who have proven results in pleasuring them dating all the way back to their teen years. How would I prove I could perform well too?

If that makes me an "incel" doesn't that make your characterization of the issue wrong, and if it doesn't, does that make others' characterization of me wrong?

(In case you're wondering where I stand on that, quite frankly I don't think the word ever had a real definition in the first place.)

[Xmara]

Oh god oh fuck.

I play video games.

I have a beard.

I wear worn out jeans and flannel, idk if that bad attire but whatever.

NSG, am I an incel now?

You’re too far gone m8. We’re gonna have to send you off to Reddit or 4chan now.

It was nice knowing you, buddy.

[Page]

Well, I have the beard and the bad attire part. You have to put a gun to my head to make me wear anything more formal than a t-shirt and jeans. But I'm happily married. Anyway...

The whole incel thing is a vicious cycle. Rejection leads one to seek validation, they get that validation from redpill types, they internalize the toxic attitudes of that culture and it reflects in their interaction with women which causes more rejection, and that takes them even deeper down the rabbit hole.

I will admit that the issue of affirmative consent has some tricky elements. Like with a first kiss, for a huge number of people, being asked "can I kiss you" completely ruins the moment, but one does have a responsibility to pay attention to body language and cues, and there are definitely situations in which kissing someone is creepy or outright assault. But some people have trouble with non-verbal communication, both neurodivergent people and those who are poorly socialized, and they might make an honest mistake and shouldn't be crucified over it.

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer. People have different perspectives and different boundaries. I've had sexual encounters which a good deal of people would describe as me being raped, both because of age differences and because of the times I've been really drunk or high, but I don't consider those encounters such and I do believe my consent was valid. But that's just me and my experiences, it would be wrong for me to tell someone who had the same experience that they have to feel the same way about it as I do.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Bill Maher once again demonstrating he is a stupid fuckwit.

Oh god oh fuck.

I play video games.

I have a beard.

I wear worn out jeans and flannel, idk if that bad attire but whatever.

NSG, am I an incel now?

Too late pal, its incel time

[Kerwa]

Beards cause men to be incels? Explain every Muslim man who got married by 20.

Or Amish.
Or Hasidic Jew.

Lots of “arranged” marriages in those communities, so I’m not sure that’s a great example.

Also not all Muslims have beards.

[Ifreann]

Maher doesn't think outside the box, he's basically a conservative.

Is "conservative" even definable though?

How can conservatives be real if our eyes aren't real?

[Gravlen]

Who cares what stupid ideas Bill Maher has about incels?

Yes. Seriously, who gives a shit?

[GuessTheAltAccount]

The whole incel thing is a vicious cycle. Rejection leads one to seek validation, they get that validation from redpill types

They could "get that validation" from all sorts of sources. What made "redpill" types, of all people, more credible than their critics in such people's eyes, let alone more than everyone else? I feel like you can't call it a vicious cycle without addressing that question.

I will admit that the issue of affirmative consent has some tricky elements. Like with a first kiss, for a huge number of people, being asked "can I kiss you" completely ruins the moment, but one does have a responsibility to pay attention to body language and cues, and there are definitely situations in which kissing someone is creepy or outright assault. But some people have trouble with non-verbal communication, both neurodivergent people and those who are poorly socialized, and they might make an honest mistake and shouldn't be crucified over it.

Again, honest mistakes notwithstanding, even if we as a society ever fully address this, that still leaves behind the question of how to avoid cases where both parties directly contradict each other on the material facts of what happened, with the rest of us unable to conclusively tell which of the two is telling the truth.