[Abortion Thread] (POLL 4) A compromising position...

[Katganistan]

My liver is begging for mercy.

Non-Alcoholic Strawberry Daquiris are available for those with beleaguered livers… like mine.

Thank you.... my liver and I appreciate it.

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

My liver is begging for mercy.

Non-Alcoholic Strawberry Daquiris are available for those with beleaguered livers… like mine.

Yeah, but what about my Scotch?

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

Non-Alcoholic Strawberry Daquiris are available for those with beleaguered livers… like mine.

Yeah, but what about my Scotch?

Domestic drinks only. Got some white lightning you can try if your liver is not beleaguered, and you are intent on remedying that.

[Grave_n_idle]

So if you follow only old testament, disabled ppl aren't submitted to heaven. Aren't allowed to worship.



Jesus contradicts this in new testament.

I agree. If you are a Christian, you would mainly follow New Testament teachings, as Jesus is the centre of the religion. The Old Testament only speaks of a Messiah, not exactly Jesus’ teachings.

Self-mutilation being the aspirational ideal is new testament

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

I agree. If you are a Christian, you would mainly follow New Testament teachings, as Jesus is the centre of the religion. The Old Testament only speaks of a Messiah, not exactly Jesus’ teachings.

Self-mutilation being the aspirational ideal is new testament

What?

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

Yeah, but what about my Scotch?

Domestic drinks only. Got some white lightning you can try if your liver is not beleaguered, and you are intent on remedying that.

Sure, I’ll try White Lightning

[Betoni]

Banning abortion isn't the same as giving rights to a fetus.

It is, it's de facto giving the fetus the right to use the body of another against their will. That's a right that no other person has.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the fetus doesn't have any legal bearing, it is not a legal entity.

Given the pro-life crowd very frequently want the fetus to be considered a person, the question of it being a legal entity in this context is very pertinent, hence why we need to speak in terms like this.

'

It really isn't, the fetus has no capacity to act in any sense much less legal, so it cannot use anything or have any rights. Laws banning abortion don't create new rights for fetuses they limit the rights of the mother. Have you then conceded already that a fetus is capable of having rights?

[The New California Republic]

It is, it's de facto giving the fetus the right to use the body of another against their will. That's a right that no other person has.


Given the pro-life crowd very frequently want the fetus to be considered a person, the question of it being a legal entity in this context is very pertinent, hence why we need to speak in terms like this.

'

It really isn't, the fetus has no capacity to act in any sense much less legal, so it cannot use anything or have any rights. Laws banning abortion don't create new rights for fetuses they limit the rights of the mother. Have you then conceded already that a fetus is capable of having rights?

"Concede"? I was never starting from a position where I would need to "concede" that, so you are arguing against a position that I never held. So you might want to do a hard reset of your view of my position and start again. The second part of the quote you responded to reveals that I'm needing to argue from starting points I don't believe are true, solely due to the pro-life crowd having a set of assumptions, and me needing to place myself in a position to argue against them (I don't consider the fetus to be a person for instance, but since the pro-life crowd bring forward arguments that have that as one of their arguments, I need to suspend that to actually even argue against them, even though I myself do not hold that view):

Given the pro-life crowd very frequently want the fetus to be considered a person, the question of it being a legal entity in this context is very pertinent, hence why we need to speak in terms like this.

[Grave_n_idle]

Self-mutilation being the aspirational ideal is new testament

What?

It does what it says on the tin.

According to the Greek scripture, the highest aspirational ideal to which all (male, obviously) believers should aspire, is self castration.

Read the book.

[Sundiata]

What?

It does what it says on the tin.

According to the Greek scripture, the highest aspirational ideal to which all (male, obviously) believers should aspire, is self castration.

Read the book.

[Dogmeat]

It does what it says on the tin.

According to the Greek scripture, the highest aspirational ideal to which all (male, obviously) believers should aspire, is self castration.

Read the book.

It's no use Grave. Even if you were to give them 99 reasons why they're doing religion wrong. They would just respond by ignoring you, and killing a million Germans.

[Isles of Eamhna]

has the pro-life crowd considered the possibility of reducing the overall prevalence of abortion by mandating vasectomies for men? modern vasectomy surgery (and vasectomy reversal surgery) is a generally safe procedure with low chance of complications that almost entirely removes the possibility of a man causing an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

[Vassenor]

has the pro-life crowd considered the possibility of reducing the overall prevalence of abortion by mandating vasectomies for men? modern vasectomy surgery (and vasectomy reversal surgery) is a generally safe procedure with low chance of complications that almost entirely removes the possibility of a man causing an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

That solution doesn't involve controlling women, so they're against it.

[Grave_n_idle]

It's no use Grave. Even if you were to give them 99 reasons why they're doing religion wrong. They would just respond by ignoring you, and killing a million Germans.

I'm fine with Sun 'doing it wrong', I'm picking up his religious anti-abortion arguments (or in this case, religious hijack) and explaining where they are wrong for the benefit of others.

[Esternial]

has the pro-life crowd considered the possibility of reducing the overall prevalence of abortion by mandating vasectomies for men? modern vasectomy surgery (and vasectomy reversal surgery) is a generally safe procedure with low chance of complications that almost entirely removes the possibility of a man causing an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

I've considered this idea as well. Putting aside the fact that making it mandatory could be rather draconian, it would result in more/all pregnancies being a fully conscious choice rather one that is made passively.

Sounds impossible to sell to most of humanity, though - even I am a bit apprehensive about it, and I don't even dislike the idea.

[Neutraligon]

has the pro-life crowd considered the possibility of reducing the overall prevalence of abortion by mandating vasectomies for men? modern vasectomy surgery (and vasectomy reversal surgery) is a generally safe procedure with low chance of complications that almost entirely removes the possibility of a man causing an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

I suggested it as a "reasonable" alternative. I also suggested that for this to work sperm banks would be important.

[Sundiata]

It's no use Grave. Even if you were to give them 99 reasons why they're doing religion wrong. They would just respond by ignoring you, and killing a million Germans.

I'm fine with Sun 'doing it wrong', I'm picking up his religious anti-abortion arguments (or in this case, religious hijack) and explaining where they are wrong for the benefit of others.

I'm not making religious arguments. And second, there's nothing wrong with Catholicism.

[Stellar Colonies]

has the pro-life crowd considered the possibility of reducing the overall prevalence of abortion by mandating vasectomies for men? modern vasectomy surgery (and vasectomy reversal surgery) is a generally safe procedure with low chance of complications that almost entirely removes the possibility of a man causing an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

Number one, vasectomies are still difficult to reverse and surgery like that probably shouldn't be viewed as a normal birth control method.

Number two (for anyone who unfortunately focuses first on women's rights and views men's rights as subordinate to them), it sets a terrible precedent for bodily autonomy and would only encourage advocation of similar control being forced on female bodies like aforementioned abortion restrictions, unless a double standard is held between male and female bodily autonomy (which in itself is bad for what I hope is obvious reasons).

Number three (building on number two) it would be a heavy blow against efforts to get rid of infant circumcision, and that cannot be allowed. Male bodily autonomy has already trampled upon enough by normalizing baby cutting, making that worse in a self-defeating gotcha is not a good idea.

Terrible idea all around.

[Ifreann]

People who support forced pregnancy will obviously oppose forced vasectomies because they are, fundamentally, misogynists. It's funny to get them to admit that, but obviously there's no solution to be derived from that fact.

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

It's no use Grave. Even if you were to give them 99 reasons why they're doing religion wrong. They would just respond by ignoring you, and killing a million Germans.

Ok what? I’m simply following my religion, not your cult. Now be quiet. And no, I don’t massacre Germans lol.

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

It's no use Grave. Even if you were to give them 99 reasons why they're doing religion wrong. They would just respond by ignoring you, and killing a million Germans.

I'm fine with Sun 'doing it wrong', I'm picking up his religious anti-abortion arguments (or in this case, religious hijack) and explaining where they are wrong for the benefit of others.

Did you just assume that I was pro life? Man, can someone prove them wrong because they won’t believe me. Neutraligon you tell em.

[Ifreann]

It's no use Grave. Even if you were to give them 99 reasons why they're doing religion wrong. They would just respond by ignoring you, and killing a million Germans.

Ok what? I’m simply following my religion, not your cult. Now be quiet. And no, I don’t massacre Germans lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-five_Theses

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

Ok what? I’m simply following my religion, not your cult. Now be quiet. And no, I don’t massacre Germans lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-five_Theses

I’m not Catholic if that is what you think…

[The New California Republic]

I'm fine with Sun 'doing it wrong', I'm picking up his religious anti-abortion arguments (or in this case, religious hijack) and explaining where they are wrong for the benefit of others.

Did you just assume that I was pro life? Man, can someone prove them wrong because they won’t believe me. Neutraligon you tell em.

Nobody even mentioned you in that post...

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

Did you just assume that I was pro life? Man, can someone prove them wrong because they won’t believe me. Neutraligon you tell em.

Nobody even mentioned you in that post...

Oh ok. Oof…my bad.