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by Giovanniland » Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:56 am
by Debussy » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:52 pm
Giovanniland wrote:While I am not able to give feedback about the proposal at this exact moment, I do think you're again falling to the common error of submitting too soon. After the proposal's defeat, the only comments on this thread were during August 16th-17th and September 1st-10th, for a total of around one week and a half of active discussion. I do understand if those lapses in activity were a result of real life, and there's no problem with that, but especially as you're dealing with a previously-defeated proposal, I'd recommend waiting more so as to have more feedback and better chances of getting it passed.
by Thousand Branches » Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:11 am
Debussy wrote:Believing it necessary to inform the greater public on how nations attempt to collect signature artwork, henceforth referred to as “cards”, of other nations in order to protect collectors and minimize disputes,
Debussy wrote: Recognizing that the collecting of cards, even with the help of advanced tools, can be extremely time-consuming and arduous,
Debussy wrote:Card Farming – the process by which nations, through a number of proxies, produce large quantities of international artwork.
Debussy wrote:Card Organization – an association of nations with a common interest in the field of international artwork.
Debussy wrote: Transfer – the process by which nations collect bank from their proxies.
Debussy wrote: Heist – the process by which nations attempt to interfere with a trade between a nation and one of its proxies with the intent of stealing bank.
Debussy wrote:Pull Event – an event in which nations manipulate the artwork market with the intent of duplicating a specific piece of artwork.
Debussy wrote:Understanding that the consolidation of bank from proxy nations is often necessary to purchase desirable cards,
Debussy wrote: Acknowledging that the process of transferring carries with it a great risk of being heisted by other nations,
Debussy wrote: Asserting that nations are entitled to the fruits of their labor, and that the practice of heisting does not align with the mission of this Council,
Debussy wrote:It is recommended that collectors avoid transferring concurrently with pull events, which will disrupt the event and increase the odds of a heist occurring.
Debussy wrote:Transfers are best conducted with cards of either high scarcity or with cards in which the collector commands a controlling interest of the total copies.
Delete “cards in” (after “high scarcity or with…”)
“Interest” is definitely wrong, perhaps “percentage”? I suppose if you were talking about some kind of investment in those cards? I guess it works but it sounds a little bit wonky.Debussy wrote:The risk of being heisted is directly correlated with the amount of bank being transferred in a given exchange, so lowering the amount of bank per exchange can reduce this risk.
“exchange” should be “transfer” as per the definition.Debussy wrote:When possible, members of card organizations should refrain from heisting and advise against the practice.
Why “When possible”? Is there ever a time when it is impossible? I’d argue there isn’t really any reason to heist, yes? This seems like it’s kind of undermining the point, and the sentence works better without.Debussy wrote:When a heist originates from a region with a card organization, the card organization should facilitate communication between the parties involved when requested and practical.
by Debussy » Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:02 pm
First of all, it should be “attempt to collect the signature artwork”
BAM: “Believing that in order to protect collectors and minimize disputes, it is necessary to inform the greater public… etc etc”
The clause feels tired and also a couple of grammar errors are present. It would sound less lethargic with a couple of edits.
“collecting” should be “collection” (collecting is not a noun)
“help” would sound better as “aid” or “assistance”
Last bit would also sound better as: “can be an extremely time-consuming and arduous task,”
Is proxy the right word here? Usually a proxy is the object that is authorized to act on the behalf of another, not the other way around. Considering this is referring to card puppies, I would do something like “satellite states” or “colonies” or “protectorates” or “dominions” or honestly just “puppet nations”. Proxy feels wrong here.
Might note said nations as “independent” mostly because you just noted that nations often have a lot of smaller nations under their belt for farming. Don’t want it to sound like all the nations are owned by the same dude.
Yadda yadda same comment on proxies.
I’m chill with most of these definitions, a curious style for the SC but it is a declaration so it makes sense, but the whole dang resolution is about heisting! Shouldn’t this be its own clause? I guess it works here but just sticking it with all of the other boring definitions and stuff that nobody reads kind of seems weird to me?
Also, is this not an inaccurate definition of heisting? I could be wrong but I remember the term being used for undercutting someone else and for stealing high value cards in things like pull events. Actually I’m probably totally wrong on this, I haven’t farmed in months haha.
Also you simply list here “a trade”. You should specify that such is “a trade of cards” or something to that idea.
“Intent” should be “intention” or “of duplicating” should be “to duplicate”. Either way works but I think the first sounds better.
“are” should be “should be”. Obviously they are not at the moment or this resolution to protect those nations would not be here
Their ideas do not simply “not align” with this Council, they CLASH with it! They are not an idea we do not wish to implement, they are a problem that need be stopped, an evil that must be squashed! Okay yes, I’m being dramatic, but that’s the point! This cannot read as simply a firmly worded clause toward pirates, it should act as a vow to destroy them! The resolution is mostly to help people from getting heisted but there should be something saying that heisting is bad, right? This is all a long winded way to say basically add spice to this clause
“Which will disrupt and increase” should be “thereby disrupting the event and increasing”. Which will just sounds bad
“Interest” is definitely wrong, perhaps “percentage”? I suppose if you were talking about some kind of investment in those cards? I guess it works but it sounds a little bit wonky.
When I read the title “Convention Against Heisting”, I think I was expecting, ya know, something against heisting. This reads instead like a how-to guide on what heisting is and what to do about it.
by Giovanniland » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:07 am
Debussy wrote:Giovanniland wrote:While I am not able to give feedback about the proposal at this exact moment, I do think you're again falling to the common error of submitting too soon. After the proposal's defeat, the only comments on this thread were during August 16th-17th and September 1st-10th, for a total of around one week and a half of active discussion. I do understand if those lapses in activity were a result of real life, and there's no problem with that, but especially as you're dealing with a previously-defeated proposal, I'd recommend waiting more so as to have more feedback and better chances of getting it passed.
If you need time, you've got it. I just ask that you give feedback when you have time. You've known this proposal was here, and I've asked you for your feedback before. I've asked others, too. Active discussion is only started by people who give feedback, otherwise, this rots on the 3rd or 4th page.
by Debussy » Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:00 am
Giovanniland wrote:Reading and reflecting upon other card traders' comments, I tend to partly agree with HS. I disagree with them in the point that Section I should be removed, because in my opinion the guidelines are useful for nations looking to enter the market - and declarations don't necessarily need to be exactly non-binding laws, I think we should also explore more unconventional approaches to them like this one. However, I do agree on a part making a conclusion on the topic and saying "heisting bad, don't heist" as they said.
Giovanniland wrote:Also, on communication, I get that some nations may heist out of inexperience with the market but I feel like you didn't fully address concerns here. The SC's goal is "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary", perhaps it could also encourage a more belligerent option against heisters who keep heisting and never listen to others? (It's what I personally do anyways.) I think that'd be interesting for other experienced card traders to discuss.
by Giovanniland » Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:18 am
Debussy wrote:Giovanniland wrote:Reading and reflecting upon other card traders' comments, I tend to partly agree with HS. I disagree with them in the point that Section I should be removed, because in my opinion the guidelines are useful for nations looking to enter the market - and declarations don't necessarily need to be exactly non-binding laws, I think we should also explore more unconventional approaches to them like this one. However, I do agree on a part making a conclusion on the topic and saying "heisting bad, don't heist" as they said.
Asserting that nations should be entitled to the fruits of their labor, and that the practice of heisting does not align with the mission of this Council,
Debussy wrote:Giovanniland wrote:Also, on communication, I get that some nations may heist out of inexperience with the market but I feel like you didn't fully address concerns here. The SC's goal is "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary", perhaps it could also encourage a more belligerent option against heisters who keep heisting and never listen to others? (It's what I personally do anyways.) I think that'd be interesting for other experienced card traders to discuss.
Card organizations are encouraged to organize against heisters.
by Debussy » Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:02 pm
Giovanniland wrote:Debussy wrote:
Asserting that nations should be entitled to the fruits of their labor, and that the practice of heisting does not align with the mission of this Council,
That is the closest you have, but it's still not a clause telling people not to heist. You'd think this is obvious in a resolution against heisting but all guidelines you post are how to protect heists; I think perhaps a clause like "Hereby urges collectors not to heist, unless when advised by this proposal, and declares the following guidelines on how to protect against heists:" could work.
Why card organizations only? Sure, new traders may not have the strength to fight off heisters and might need help, but many others may already have the resources to do that and retaliate if needed, if talking doesn't work. Also, come to think about it, the retaliation is often heisting back, so if the "organize" you wrote there means this, you probably need to edit item I of article II (organization members need to refrain from heisting) so it doesn't contradict item III.
by Team Lennox » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:56 am
by Tinhampton » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:02 am
Debussy wrote:It is recommended that collectors avoid transferring concurrently with pull events
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