Australia, The Nanny State

[Australian rePublic]

Firstly, before we get started, I'm not talking about 150 year old obsolete laws that are unenforceable. I am talking about non-obsolete enforceable laws, so before you go on about "oh, but it's illegal to change a light bulb, but no one cares if you do", those aren't the kinds of laws I'm referring to. Those kinds of laws are obsolete and unenforceable. I am talking about enforceable laws

So, in my opinion, Australia is one of the world's worst nanny states

Some examples include:
In NSW it's a crime to posses a laser pointer outside of your home. More so than anywhere else in Australia or anywhere else in the world. In Victoria, you can get fined for driving at 102km/h in a 100 zone. In Queensland, you can get fined for drinking water behind the steering wheel. This is considered a stupid law by world standards. Most DIY which is legal overseas is illegal in Australia. In most countries around the world, including NZ (which has the same electric system as us) it's perfectly legal to change a faulty light bulb. Guess which one has outlawed it… and the list goes on

The thing is, it's a slippery slope. Today something might be legal, tomorrow, it might be illegal. Just because what you wanna do is legal now, doesn't necessarily mean it will be in the future. I mean what's next to be banned? Christmas trees? All they do is serve as a decoration and yet they could fall and crush a small child. Desktop computers? A laptop does everything that a desktop does, but is less able to be used as a projectile. Stereos? Why not ban stereos over 15dB considering that laser pointers are banned in public, after all, it is possible to use a laser pointer without disturbing anybody, it's impossible to use a ridiculously loud stereo without annoying your neighbours and/or damaging your hearing


However, Australia is only a nanny state when it suites the government, leading me to believe that this is due to either lazy legislation and/or corruption. When it doesn't the suite the government, Australia is an anti-nanny state
For example, outside of Eastern Sydney, it's virtually impossible to find soap in public toilets in NSW, undertaking is illegal in most countries as it's deemed dangerous, however it's perfectly legal in Australia, as the way Australian roads are designed, it's impossible to prohibit undertaking. If Australia were to prohibit undertaking, we would really need to redesign the roads, etc.

There are some nanny state laws which are, in my opinion, reasonable such as mandatory seat belts and mandatory bike helmets. However, there needs to be a line between mandatory seat belts and banning Christmas trees. I don't know where to draw the line, but in my opinion, Australia has not only crossed it, but we've gone so far, the line is now a distant memory, soon to be forgotten

So why is this a problem in my opinion:
1. It takes away our freedoms
2. It makes us stupider
3. If Aboriginals weren't already over-governed by the post-colonial government, this provides more over-governance when they should have more autonomy
4. It's stifles innovation- people who can't do things can't invent things, as it's illegal for people to do their own inventing. The NSW government wants more technology to be developed in the state, but I don't see how that's gonna happen, considering that you're not allowed to do stuff that would allow you to invent something


So my question is here, is this a problem? And what can we do about it? My answer is stop putting up with it. If we stopped putting up with it, the problem will go away. What I would do about it is hold an event which would draw media attention, without causing a public nuisance, but sadly, I don't have the ability to muster up the manpower required for it

So what do you think NSG? Is Australia a nanny state? Is it a problem? What can we do about it?

[Perikuresu]

Nothing about the raids on the ABC, the arrest of Friendlyjordie's producer (which may/may not have been Bruz's orders) and the new law that allows Police to hack into our devices and social media account and pretend to be us?

I feel like these incidents would give you a better case on why Australia is a Nanny state

[Australian rePublic]

Nothing about the raids on the ABC, the arrest of Friendlyjordie's producer (which may/may not have been Bruz's orders) and the new law that allows Police to hack into our devices and social media account and pretend to be us?

I feel like these incidents would give you a better case on why Australia is a Nanny state

This is abuse of power, which is very different from nanny state. We need better systems in place to protect us from such abuse of power, but that's a different discussion in and of itself

[Australian rePublic]

I suppose though, over-zealous nanny state laws could be interpreted by some as abuse of power, so fine, I'll give you that

[Perikuresu]

Nothing about the raids on the ABC, the arrest of Friendlyjordie's producer (which may/may not have been Bruz's orders) and the new law that allows Police to hack into our devices and social media account and pretend to be us?

I feel like these incidents would give you a better case on why Australia is a Nanny state

This is abuse of power, which is very different from nanny state. We need better systems in place to protect us from such abuse of power, but that's a different discussion in and of itself

Excuse my mistake, forgot what a Nanny State was whilst writing this comment, although if irc, the new law was meant to fight terrorism so I guess it counts?

[Andronya]

Granted, Mexico is not exactly a great country to live in, it's REALLY unsafe and it has MANY problems, but even then, I'm glad Australia exists, because it makes me glad at least I wasn't born there.
No offence to Ausies, quite the contrary, the few I've met where all great, very likeable people, but I trully can't understand how people can like to live in a country like that; as much as I hate the Mexican government I still prefer an incompetent, corrupt government to a nanny state like that.

[Democratic Republic of Arztotzka]

Well from your examples, it definitely seems Australia is becoming more of a nanny state.

[Australian rePublic]

Granted, Mexico is not exactly a great country to live in, it's REALLY unsafe and it has MANY problems, but even then, I'm glad Australia exists, because it makes me glad at least I wasn't born there.
No offence to Ausies, quite the contrary, the few I've met where all great, very likeable people, but I trully can't understand how people can like to live in a country like that; as much as I hate the Mexican government I still prefer an incompetent, corrupt government to a nanny state like that.

I don't know, I'd prefer to live somewhere with over-zealous nanny state laws than with a crappy government system. I mean, Australia isn't perfect, but at least I can take solace in the fact that, for the most part, the police aren't malicious, with few notable exceptions, foreign services will help us if we have problems overseas, I don't need to pay bribes in order to do things, etc. If it means putting up with over-zealous legislation, so be it. It's far better, in my opinion, to live in a country with a competent government and few systematic problems and deal with a nanny state, than to live in a country with many systematic problems. All countries have systematic problems, and in my opinion, Australia's systematic problem is the nanny state, but if that's our biggest systematic problem, we're still pretty damned good. I mean, as far as systematic problems go, nanny state isn't the worst possible one. At least here, I know that, for the most part, and with few exceptions, if I criticise the government, no body is going to show up and arrest me, yes, we had the FriendlyJordies incident, but that was an isolated incident, and the police themselves were very critical of Barilaro thug squad, and now Barilaro is now thankfully gone

[The H Corporation]

Granted, Mexico is not exactly a great country to live in, it's REALLY unsafe and it has MANY problems, but even then, I'm glad Australia exists, because it makes me glad at least I wasn't born there.
No offence to Ausies, quite the contrary, the few I've met where all great, very likeable people, but I trully can't understand how people can like to live in a country like that; as much as I hate the Mexican government I still prefer an incompetent, corrupt government to a nanny state like that.

The first time I agree, I am one of those people who really take one's individual freedom very seriously. So maybe living in Australia won't be my future choice of living. Some of the laws there are very ridiculous and just like the OP says they are not a nanny state when they don't want to or do not benefit them. Sounds similar but at the same time, it is not because in Mexico we don't have laws like those, and thank god we got the slim chance to not have those kinds of presidents.

[Teuthita]

It´s when governments become fearful of the people they govern, that they want to control every aspect of their lives.
That way, the people are made to fear one another, become secretive, and manipulable.

[Australian rePublic]

Granted, Mexico is not exactly a great country to live in, it's REALLY unsafe and it has MANY problems, but even then, I'm glad Australia exists, because it makes me glad at least I wasn't born there.
No offence to Ausies, quite the contrary, the few I've met where all great, very likeable people, but I trully can't understand how people can like to live in a country like that; as much as I hate the Mexican government I still prefer an incompetent, corrupt government to a nanny state like that.

The first time I agree, I am one of those people who really take one's individual freedom very seriously. So maybe living in Australia won't be my future choice of living. Some of the laws there are very ridiculous and just like the OP says they are not a nanny state when they don't want to or do not benefit them. Sounds similar but at the same time, it is not because in Mexico we don't have laws like those, and thank god we got the slim chance to not have those kinds of presidents.

Yep, well it's our fault for putting up with it

[The H Corporation]

Granted, Mexico is not exactly a great country to live in, it's REALLY unsafe and it has MANY problems, but even then, I'm glad Australia exists, because it makes me glad at least I wasn't born there.
No offence to Ausies, quite the contrary, the few I've met where all great, very likeable people, but I trully can't understand how people can like to live in a country like that; as much as I hate the Mexican government I still prefer an incompetent, corrupt government to a nanny state like that.

I don't know, I'd prefer to live somewhere with over-zealous nanny state laws than with a crappy government system. I mean, Australia isn't perfect, but at least I can take solace in the fact that, for the most part, the police aren't malicious, with few notable exceptions, foreign services will help us if we have problems overseas, I don't need to pay bribes in order to do things, etc. If it means putting up with over-zealous legislation, so be it. It's far better, in my opinion, to live in a country with a competent government and few systematic problems and deal with a nanny state, than to live in a country with many systematic problems. All countries have systematic problems, and in my opinion, Australia's systematic problem is the nanny state, but if that's our biggest systematic problem, we're still pretty damned good. I mean, as far as systematic problems go, nanny state isn't the worst possible one. At least here, I know that, for the most part, and with few exceptions, if I criticise the government, no body is going to show up and arrest me, yes, we had the FriendlyJordies incident, but that was isolated, and now it's gone

Not gonna lie you are actually right although more than arrest you, they will probably disappear you just like in Tlatelolco and just like in Ayotzinapa that is how things are, let alone narcos. The governor of Nuevo Leon is rumoured to have ties with the narcos, and oh god let's just look away from Tamaulipas and Veracruz, you have to pay a fee to criminals to have your business or they will disappear you

[Perikuresu]

The first time I agree, I am one of those people who really take one's individual freedom very seriously. So maybe living in Australia won't be my future choice of living. Some of the laws there are very ridiculous and just like the OP says they are not a nanny state when they don't want to or do not benefit them. Sounds similar but at the same time, it is not because in Mexico we don't have laws like those, and thank god we got the slim chance to not have those kinds of presidents.

Yep, well it's our fault for putting up with it

I mean, we're pretty famous for not giving a fuck about politics

[Andronya]

Overall I just couldn't possibly live under a nanny state, I think a nanny state is just one or two steps away from becoming a full-on dictatorship, and the 20th century showed us where those lead to all too well.

I understand there are people out there that want that kind of life and government, but I personally don't know how anyone could do that to themselves.

[The H Corporation]

The first time I agree, I am one of those people who really take one's individual freedom very seriously. So maybe living in Australia won't be my future choice of living. Some of the laws there are very ridiculous and just like the OP says they are not a nanny state when they don't want to or do not benefit them. Sounds similar but at the same time, it is not because in Mexico we don't have laws like those, and thank god we got the slim chance to not have those kinds of presidents.

Yep, well it's our fault for putting up with it

We care about politics but we are really bad at those XD

[Australian rePublic]

Yep, well it's our fault for putting up with it

We care about politics but we are really bad at those XD

I see

[Andronya]

Like I said, as much as I despise the Mexican government, it's not as bad as Australia's in my honest opinion.
The Mexican government has its own head up his... you know what hole. But in that incompetence it's just that, incompetent.
The Australian government sounds to me like the sort of people that would say "I will save you, even if it kills you"

[The H Corporation]

Like I said, as much as I despise the Mexican government, it's not as bad as Australia's in my honest opinion.
The Mexican government has its own head up his... you know what hole. But in that incompetence it's just that, incompetent.
The Australian government sounds to me like the sort of people that would say "I will save you, even if it kills you"

I don't think we can compare both countries like that, because it is not only incompetence. I sometimes feel they are trying to kill us

[Australian rePublic]

Like I said, as much as I despise the Mexican government, it's not as bad as Australia's in my honest opinion.
The Mexican government has its own head up his... you know what hole. But in that incompetence it's just that, incompetent.
The Australian government sounds to me like the sort of people that would say "I will save you, even if it kills you"

Oh well, at least by posting it here, we can gather some international attention. Now if that international attention turns to domestic attention, maybe people will start demanding the government do something about it

[Andronya]

Like I said, as much as I despise the Mexican government, it's not as bad as Australia's in my honest opinion.
The Mexican government has its own head up his... you know what hole. But in that incompetence it's just that, incompetent.
The Australian government sounds to me like the sort of people that would say "I will save you, even if it kills you"

I don't think we can compare both countries like that, because it is not only incompetence. I sometimes feel they are trying to kill us

More than that I feel like they simply don't care at all, More than trying to kill us the government is simply not worried about what happens to us.

[Australian rePublic]

I don't think we can compare both countries like that, because it is not only incompetence. I sometimes feel they are trying to kill us

More than that I feel like they simply don't care at all, More than trying to kill us the government is simply not worried about what happens to us.

Yep. They're not actively killing people, just indifferent, huge difference

[Infected Mushroom]

I'm sorry but the examples you bring up, seem to make sense.

A laser pointer outside of the home could cause accidents.

Drinking water behind the steering wheel while the car is moving IS irresponsible and dangerous behavior.

If the speed limit is 100 then it makes sense that you would be fined if you went even slightly over. Otherwise why isn't the speed limit 103?

I'm not sure I would feel less "free" living in Australia with those constraints because it would never occur to me to test those limits or to do things that could endanger others for no real gain.

[Kerwa]

If the speed limit is 100 then it makes sense that you would be fined if you went even slightly over. Otherwise why isn't the speed limit 103?

Because speedometers are calibrated exactly and/or that accurate. (Amongst other things).

[Ifreann]

If the speed limit is 100 then it makes sense that you would be fined if you went even slightly over. Otherwise why isn't the speed limit 103?

Because speedometers are calibrated exactly and/or that accurate. (Amongst other things).

Are the police radar guns even calibrated that accurately?

[Kerwa]

Because speedometers are calibrated exactly and/or that accurate. (Amongst other things).

Are the police radar guns even calibrated that accurately?[/quote]

Challenging speed gun calibration is often a way to beat a speeding ticket. But in theory is they are set up and used properly they are supposed to be.