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Spode Humbled Minions
Envoy
 
Posts: 252
Founded: May 13, 2016
New York Times Democracy

Postby Spode Humbled Minions » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:50 pm

Andusre wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:Pointing out how unrelated the reference was... That's one way to go.
Personally, I would have pointed out how the post admonished me with a "be informed before you speak" metaphor, then called me "a West Pacifican" when I've only been in TWP for 6 hours.

God, is this the best you can throw at me? :snooze:

Varanius wrote: Anything for cheap TEP points I suppose.

Coming from the person whose virtually only notability is being TWP's attack dog? K.

I believe the preferred term is ‘agendaposter’ :P
"Sadly we do not have seven plagues to soften your hardened heart"
“Your existing state of mind is at caress to apocalypse.”

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Zukchiva
Envoy
 
Posts: 253
Founded: Dec 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Zukchiva » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:19 pm

RiderSyl wrote:
How dare you. My political siege of the halls of this embassy is responsible for the existence of one of Zukchiva's favorite memes! !

But seriously speaking it was a great meme for the situation IMO :p

I like memes... We should have more of them, all the time!
My name is Zukchiva Spartan Yura.
I'm a goose! Give me your bells!
"Are you ok zuk" - Halley
“Posts a wall of text, mentions he can elaborate more. Classic Zuk.”- Bach
“who the fuck is zukchiva lol”- Virgolia
“note to self: zuk is a traitor who must be silenced”- Atlae
“I vote that Zukchiva is kicked off the island”- Algerstonia
"everyone ban zuk"- AMOM
"i've come to the conclusion that zuk cannot pronounce words"- Euricanis
"no we blame zuk for everything now"- Catiania
"zuk is just an idiot" - Vor
"Zuk is absolutely a failure" - Vara
"Zuk's been made illegal? pog" - Boro

Proud member of The East Pacific, The Union of Democratic States, and Refugia!

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Sedgistan
Site Director
 
Posts: 35471
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:57 pm

Matthew the Man wrote:Hey glen what sorta pot are you smoking, I too would love to get involved if it makes my critical thinking comprehension drop to rock bottom and ego swell to unimaginable heights. Or at least, I think you’re smoking pot since the alternative is just a comedically bad “opinion” akin to that of a clown act at a circus.

Matthew the Man wrote:
Sandaoguo wrote:I’m a circus clown bozo who doesn’t know anything.

Yeah that’s what I said, you derelict armchair general.

Enough of the shitposting pot-shots at Sandaoguo.

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A Bloodred Moon
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 427
Founded: Jan 13, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby A Bloodred Moon » Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:49 am

I’m agreeing with Glen and Cormac, which is a twist I didn’t see coming.

Quebecshire wrote:Our sanctions were based on Thaecia’s. It would be unnecessary to go beyond what Thaecia, the victims of the issue here, see as appropriate. The LDF is prepared to choose Thaecia over the JTF in full if it comes down to it. Our sanctions really aren’t any more lenient than Thaecia’s, and I doubt you’d accuse Thaecia of trying to use this situation to hurt raiding for defending’s benefit.

Except Thaecia’s sanctions (and, for that matter, TEP’s) had a credible threat behind them. They raid, they have a significant military, they get frequently invited to raids, they have a large enough updater force to make a significant difference during liberations. No one in their right mind would invite the JTF over Thaecia, and if they did the chances of getting liberated are all the greater. Add to that the fact that this cuts the JTF off from several important military partners and you can fairly safely conclude that the JTF is left with few options to raid anymore as a result of these sanctions.

The reason I was given by Andy for the lack of sanctions related to defending was that they were concerned that the JTF might join liberations or defences and force Thaecia to sit them out. Personally, I think that weakens their position - it would be far more powerful to my mind to give defenders an ultimatum: boot the JTF or risk losing Thaecia altogether. But it was a reasoning, anyway, and one with valid, working logic behind it.

The LDF is a different matter entirely. They raid very rarely and their main goal is defending, so logically 90% of the time they’ll cooperate with the JTF will be during defensive operations. Making the sanctions only apply to the remaining 10% doesn’t hurt or affect the JTF in any way they’d notice, and basically adds a * to the statement which says “this will do nothing in 90% of all cases”. I can only conclude that you’re either A) terrible at making diplomatic threats and should get someone more capable to decide your sanctions in the future or B) that you’re acting purely for a PR move aimed to gain sympathy with Thaecia and less out of concern over August’s comments. I’m assuming it’s the former and you didn’t think this through very well, but it seems more than a little silly to mock Glen when he’s figured out what you haven’t: that your sanctions are inconsequential and don’t threaten or harm the JTF’s operational capabilities in any significant way.
JoWhatup

Alpha Emeritus of Lone Wolves United - For Your Protection

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Sandaoguo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Sandaoguo » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:48 am

RiderSyl wrote:Watch out, Glen, I'm about to become a TSPer by spending 6 hours in your region! :lol:

We’ll probably elect you Minister of Culture if you do.
Last edited by Sandaoguo on Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Matthew the Man
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 137
Founded: Nov 09, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Matthew the Man » Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:47 am

A Bloodred Moon wrote:your sanctions are inconsequential and don’t threaten or harm the JTF’s operational capabilities in any significant way.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the JTF literally just decommissioned due to being neutered to the point of ineffectiveness by these same sanctions? I mean course I, and former JTF officer Aav could be wrong, but then again perhaps you’re right. It could of course be a 9 dimensional chess move by the JTF but somehow I know deep within me that it’s a foolish pipe dream.
Sandaoguo wrote:
RiderSyl wrote:Watch out, Glen, I'm about to become a TSPer by spending 6 hours in your region! :lol:

We’ll probably elect you Minister of Culture if you do.

Tbf I think it’s quite telling that someone with 6 hours in your region would be able to ascend to such levels. Perhaps that’s an issue on the part of a few regional seniors who are supposed to nurture growth from long time natives as opposed to mimic expertise on matters they’ve little input or information outside of lurking in public channels for. Personally I’d assume that TSP would be happy to be a bastion of opportunity, freedom, and democracy in this vast world
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Benevolent Thomas wrote:It is fun for me to see invaders lose at something they won at for so long.

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Quebecshire
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1911
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Quebecshire » Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:53 am

A Bloodred Moon wrote:The LDF is a different matter entirely. They raid very rarely and their main goal is defending, so logically 90% of the time they’ll cooperate with the JTF will be during defensive operations. Making the sanctions only apply to the remaining 10% doesn’t hurt or affect the JTF in any way they’d notice, and basically adds a * to the statement which says “this will do nothing in 90% of all cases”. I can only conclude that you’re either A) terrible at making diplomatic threats and should get someone more capable to decide your sanctions in the future or B) that you’re acting purely for a PR move aimed to gain sympathy with Thaecia and less out of concern over August’s comments. I’m assuming it’s the former and you didn’t think this through very well, but it seems more than a little silly to mock Glen when he’s figured out what you haven’t: that your sanctions are inconsequential and don’t threaten or harm the JTF’s operational capabilities in any significant way.

Look, Jo. You can continue to complain and be a broken record if you like. The LDF was prepared, at any moment, to choose Thaecia over the JTF in no uncertain terms if it came down to it. Believe me, or don't, I'm not particularly concerned with what you think about the LDF's inclinations.
Sandaoguo wrote:We’ll probably elect you Minister of Culture if you do.

Glen, I joined TSP and then put in the work to win an election. That's how democracy works. Complain about it more, I guess? Like Matthew said, if anything, the fact that TSP is so eager to turn to new people might be more of an indictment of people like you than anything else. Prior to Luca's resignation, 4 of the 6 members of Cabinet were people who only became South Pacificans in the year 2021. Hm.
PATRIOT OF THE LEAGUE REDEEMER OF CONCORD
Defender Moralist | Consul of the LDF | Warden-Lieutenant Emeritus | Commended
Benevolent Thomas wrote:I founded a defender organization out of my dislike of invaders, what invading represents, and my desire to see them suffer.
Pergamon wrote:I must say, you are truly what they deserve.

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Sandaoguo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 541
Founded: Apr 07, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Sandaoguo » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:07 am

Quebecshire wrote:… if anything, the fact that TSP is so eager to turn to new people might be more of an indictment of people like you than anything else.


This would actually be a biting critique of the elite establishment if anyone in the elite establishment actually ran for office lol

But we are veering a bit too far from the purpose of this thread, I imagine. ;)

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Minskiev
Minister
 
Posts: 2423
Founded: Apr 20, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Minskiev » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:24 am

So uh....what's up with airline food, am I right?

Also err Thaecia stronger than JTF so we pick Thaecia or something? I don't know
Minskiev/Walrus. Former Delegate of the Rejected Realms, 3x Officer. 15x WA author. Join the RRA here.

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Comfed
Minister
 
Posts: 2254
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:28 am

Minskiev wrote:So uh....what's up with airline food, am I right?

Also err Thaecia stronger than JTF so we pick Thaecia or something? I don't know

Thaecia's military would tend to be more powerful than a non-functioning military, yes.

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Lord Dominator
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8900
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:31 am

Comfed wrote:
Minskiev wrote:So uh....what's up with airline food, am I right?

Also err Thaecia stronger than JTF so we pick Thaecia or something? I don't know

Thaecia's military would tend to be more powerful than a non-functioning military, yes.

I personally am more powerful than the JTF is at present (apparently) ;)

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A Bloodred Moon
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 427
Founded: Jan 13, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby A Bloodred Moon » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:47 am

Matthew the Man wrote:
A Bloodred Moon wrote:your sanctions are inconsequential and don’t threaten or harm the JTF’s operational capabilities in any significant way.

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the JTF literally just decommissioned due to being neutered to the point of ineffectiveness by these same sanctions? I mean course I, and former JTF officer Aav could be wrong, but then again perhaps you’re right. It could of course be a 9 dimensional chess move by the JTF but somehow I know deep within me that it’s a foolish pipe dream.

What in the world makes you associate that with the LDF's sanctions, which apply to a handful of updates a year, and not TEP and Thaecia's, which practically break their ability to raid at all?

Quebecshire wrote:Look, Jo. You can continue to complain and be a broken record if you like.

You complained about August's comments, then proceeded to apply 'sanctions' that do practically nothing, either not realising they failed to impact the JTF in any significant way and therefore would not achieve much or applying them with the knowledge they wouldn't do anything other than seem like a good PR move. The first is a miscalculation of what your sanctions actually would have achieved, the second a dishonest attempt to use this incident to further your IC goals.

The LDF was prepared, at any moment, to choose Thaecia over the JTF in no uncertain terms if it came down to it.

Sounds like what TGW said, but instead of making a big statement and applying sanctions that affect nothing they just said that and waited to see what happened. I'm not exactly a fan of theirs either, but they made clear they were willing to act and were ready to accept the consequences of such sanctions. By contrast, you made a big statement, presumably to impress. That'd have been fine on its own, but you proceeded to apply meaningless sanctions that seem like a thinly veiled PR move - which, given the IC/OOC blur of this entire situation, would be somewhat questionable. If you did believe they were consequential, it would demonstrate ignorance on your part. The decisions made here are questionable at best.

Believe me, or don't, I'm not particularly concerned with what you think about the LDF's inclinations.

I am not sure what I'm supposed to be believing or not, since you essentially said "we were prepared to do what we didn't do" without ever explaining the reasoning behind doing what you did do. What was the aim here?
JoWhatup

Alpha Emeritus of Lone Wolves United - For Your Protection

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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:50 am

Andusre wrote:God, is this the best you can throw at me? :snooze:

I don't know why you'd expect me to heartily defend a point that I had already conceded to Quebecshire a few posts before yours. :blink:

So, ya, quips related to the rest of your post is the best I've got.
Last edited by RiderSyl on Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eastern Pacific News Service
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Eastern Pacific News Service » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:14 pm

The East Pacific News Service
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Editor's Note: This article was edited especially for NS forum readers. The original, unedited version may be seen here.

The East Pacific News Service
September 30, 2021


New Ally Spotlight: The Alstroemerian Commonwealths

FEATURE | BY: Albrook | Edited by: Zukchiva | You can read more about our authors by clicking on the "Our Staff" tab at the top

The Alpaca Accords allies the Alstroemerian Commonwealths (AC/Alstroemeria) – featuring The Glorious Nations of Iwaku, Eientei Gensokyo, and Yggdrasil – with The East Pacific.

As a long-time Alstroemerian community leader, I can provide a background on these regions and summarize the events that built up to our eventual alliance.

HISTORY AND BACKGROUND

On November 1, 2012, Vando0sa founded Iwaku to serve as a NationStates satellite community to the Iwaku Roleplay Forum. In Fall 2013, this region quickly became the largest anime UCR following the first ever tag:all recruitment. This region then grew a culture of “spammy” improv RMB RP with minimal focus on government or gameplay aspects.

On April 2, 2016, in response to mass moderation action, Vandoosa’s original nation became DEAT. Iwaku eventually refounded, and several community members – including myself – wished to continue “a more serious” version of Iwaku in Eientei Gensokyo, which served as a holding region for the community during the refounding. Iwaku and its now sister region EG, along with Iwaku’s territories and smaller splinter regions, became known as the Iwakusphere.

In March 2020, TEP Chief Minister of Foreign Affairs Libertanny reached out to Eientei Gensokyo as it was an in-game embassy, but had no official relations. This event marked the beginning of more interregional cooperation and activity from the Iwakusphere, eventually leading to it joining The Consortium as a founding member in August 2020.

The AC assumed its present form and name after admitting Yggdrasil as a member region in November 2020. Yggdrasil has been Commended in SC Resolution 221 in 2017 for the efforts of the Yggdrasil Defense Services, promotion of gameplay activity and cooperation in diplomacy and WA authorship, and its long life and history since 2003. It joined the AC after its founder, Goddess Relief Office, had retired from NS and left the region in Vandoosa’s custody.

The AC also includes the regions Alstroemeria, Tsumonrin, Hetalia, and Slavija. These smaller regions are either Iwaku splinter regions or territories that formed their own communities. These are not “public/FA-facing regions” due to their smaller size and puppet leadership.

COOPERATION AND THE ROAD AHEAD

As a fellow Consortium member, Alstroemeria frequently chatted and shared experiences with TEP in both Consortium and TEP public FA channels, participated in N-Day 2020 with ATOMIC, and even welcomed Delegate Zukchiva’s cabinet to “coup” the Alstromeria Discord Server on April Fools 2021.

Our new treaty promises to continue this activity by opening all cultural and social events we host to each other and continue our exchange of diplomats to our communities.

Alstroemeria Above All, and Hail Pacificum Orientalis!

TEP RMB RP's Most Popular Map Faces Change: The Overview

FEATURE | BY: Zukchiva | Edited by: Albrook

The title says it all.

For those unaware, TEP has a very active roleplay community on the Regional Message Board. While it does not have an official map (moreso a slew of unofficial ones), there has always been one clearly dominant map on on the roleplay community: Valsora. But recent announcements to the map have caused somewhat of a turmoil within the RMB.

But first, to explain the context.

THE CONTEXT

Valsora as a roleplay map has existed for almost two years. The initial map team focused on creating a fleshed out map for the RMB. However, the project was later abandoned due to extensive backlash related to the then-dominant map of the time, Dibergia. A former map team member, Nova-Columbia, would later revive the map as a passion project. Ironically, the drama initiated by Valsora’s first release caused Dibergia to shut down, which led to many players flocking to Valsora and cementing its status as the new main map.

Valsora was a roleplay focused on warfare geopolitics with a lack of mechanics; player interaction guided most Valsora-based roleplays. Despite this, Valsora did extremely well during its first two years, with multiple large-scale wars and political dramas taking place. This intensive roleplay marked a long period of activity for the overall community.

However, things would not remain so cheerful as Valsora began its third year of existence. Roleplay transitioned from grandiose plots to smaller-scale warfare and character roleplay, driving many older players from the map. Nova’s dwindling interest in NationStates led to the appointment of successive “temporary cartographers”, whose actions were sometimes opposed by the community. The map began witnessing overcrowding in close-to-shore areas, while landlocked areas remained largely unclaimed. These issues and more saw a decrease in quality and activity of Valsora’s roleplay scene.

THE PROPOSAL

To fix this, a nation known as Merlovich (a former Valsora temporary cartographer) released a new proposal- in short, the community would hold a poll on whether Valsora should be replaced by a new map. Alongside an increase of map size and the re-shaping of certain continents, Merlovich proposed the creation of a “cartography team” who would equally own the map, as well as having major map decisions be decided by community vote.

When first proposed, the idea gained much support with around 60% of 32 poll respondents agreeing with a new map in the aforementioned poll. Roleplayers noted that the existence of many old yet inactive nations clogged the map, and the balance of power was shifted much in favor of older players- both issues they believed could be resolved with a massive edit of Valsora or just a new map.

However, questions would soon begin to arise. Many roleplayers were worried about the change too being drastic, with some being reminded of a previous attempt to remake Valsora without Nova’s consent- a remake that ultimately fell apart. Others worried about their lore being lost and having to redraw national maps, as well as losing their old-time roleplay partners due to the change.

To address concerns, Merlovich released another dispatch further detailing the process, alongside directly addressing concerns on the RMB. A Discord was also created to help stir further discussion about the possible new map without clogging the RMB as Merlovich began work on the project.

THE IMPACT & CONCLUSION

While discussions are slowly progressing, the proposal itself has had a notable impact, being that it has deterred many roleplayers from roleplaying for the time being. Said roleplayers have announced an indefinite “break” from Valsora RP as they wait to see what happens next. Besides the practical concerns of further worldbuilding being wasted if a new map is made, many such roleplayers are also just seeking a break from the stress this situation has created.

In the meantime, discussion slowly continues in said Discord server as Merlovich labors on this new goal. Whether it will come to fruition and take Valsora’s place, or slip into obscurity, is only something time can tell.

Residents Deserve Rights Too: An opinion, a story, and written completely in-character

IN-CHARACTER | BY: Emjay Moon (East Malaysia) | Edited by: Albrook

The East Pacific is an ancient yet vibrant confederacy. It has many groups of nations that all have different yet all equally important roles within its territory. You have nations that run the Confederated Government, others that tell deep stories filled with lore from a faraway land called Urth, those that tell of the glorious battles of Valsora, and many that represent The East Pacific across the Planet Gameplay.

Since the beginning, as our grand confederacy was being established by the Steveithicus Brothers of 1 Infinite Loop, it has had a Citizen class and Resident class of nations. Citizen nations were the ones that ratified the Concordat of the confederacy and enjoyed prominent status over the Resident nations. Not too far in the distance from where we are today, Resident nations had no legal protections, and were not seen in the best light compared to Citizen nations. Resident nations came forward, they ratified the Concordat, and they became Citizen nations. They sent representatives to the Magisterium and to the Confederated Government at-large and fought for very basic rights for fledgling Resident nations.

In Rilanon, Christie Island where the seat of the Confederated Government lies, a gaggle of Citizen nations joined hands together and led the fight on behalf of the Resident nations. Eventually Resident nations gained some acknowledgement in the Concordat but for gaggle of Citizen nations that simply was not enough. To those pioneers of Residents Rights, the Resident nations were just as important as the Citizen nations, and they deserved not just rights but equal rights. A united citizenry of nations, equal, and indivisible with a common goal of the betterment of the Confederate States.

The most active nations within the overall interior territory of the confederacy and the RMB Stock Exchange are undoubtedly Resident nations. Citizen nations make up a minority of activity in these areas of the confederacy but make it up elsewhere with the continuity of government, defense and maintaining all services that are available to all nations within the bounds of The East Pacific. Citizens and Resident nations both put in a lot of work for the betterment of the confederacy. Each dedicating countless hours of workforce to The East Pacific to keep it a beautiful, safe and active confederacy. The solution is simple: residents deserve rights too. This shouldn’t be based on their status but what their contributions are to the confederacy.

As a member of the East Malaysian Non Voting Delegation to the Magisterium, I submitted a proposal for a United Citizenry Concordat on April 22, 2021. After countless hours of debate between Magisters and other Non Voting Delegation members it went to a vote and was passed by the Magisterium on August 12, 2021. Finally on August 20, 2021, with a two-thirds majority it passed among the Citizen nation’s representatives. I believe that this will make The East Pacific a leader among the Feederland regions of Planet Gameplay, for a safe and secure society, by promoting unity and the common goal of simply being the best.

Against East Malaysia's Citizenship System

OPINION | BY: Nociav | Edited by: Zukchiva

(Editor's Update to the Author's Note: The situation in TEP has changed since time of writing. The proposed system has been passed. This article was originally slated to launch late August 2021.)

I write as a concerned citizen, concerned for the future of The East Pacific. Everyone in the region should be able to remember the many times TEP has been in mortal danger. Those around during those times of turmoil would never wish such a thing again. TEP has learned much from its history. Monarchical rule ended when Gnidrah proved the failures of said system in 2008, and the Viziers were reorganized into a fourth security branch following the Fedele coup attempt.

The latest attempt to protect TEP is East Malaysia's citizenship system. EM has been around since early 2004 and has experienced all the trials and tribulations TEP has gone through. He, of all people, knows what security TEP has been in desperate need of. The latest citizenship system overhaul is a baffling turn. I, for my part, have dissented against the otherwise mostly supported proposal.

EM's proposal is meant to enhance security and expand accessibility to TEP whilst granting residents more rights. The method of granting residents more rights is by getting rid of the distinction between residents and citizens. Under the new system, everyone in TEP is a citizen. Citizens, however, can not vote in referendums and Delegate elections unless they register to vote beforehand. The registration system would involve telegramming a commissioner from your WA nation with the details of your TEP nation. This would then allow your vote to count. This process has to happen before every election. WA's can be located anywhere, from TRR to a puppet storage. To join the Magisterium and the Executive, you still have to ratify the Concordat.

The goals for a more accessible and secure TEP is admirable and one we all share. EM, being so active across two decades, has wisdom that most of us lack. But I fail to see this wisdom in the new citizenship system. I would never have expected such a strange thing to come from an esteemed member of our community. The proposal system hollows TEP's security and actively excludes some people from participating.

First I concede that WA verification does combat individual vote stackers but that is all I concede. It only defends against an individual who vote stacks using multiple accounts. I have to remind everyone that Fedele did not vote stack for himself with five different accounts he personally owned, he vote stacked with other people. This system does nothing to prevent against this form of vote stacking. The proposed system grants no practical advantage in this sector since the threat of one man pretending to be an army is low.

In addition to the above, EM's system mandates zero IP checks. The consequences are obvious. This lack of checks effectively nullifies Conclave bans since any individual could resign from the WA and join again under a new puppet. As it stands, Fedele could rejoin, and I would have encouraged him to do so to highlight the problem if such an action were legal. OOC bans also get effectively nullified now that no IP checks are done at the time of voter registration. IP checks may be done if there is suspicion that the person is Conclave banned or OOC banned but that is it, - there will be no checks on IPs outside of this. The extreme ease of avoiding OOC bans under the proposed system should be worrying to everyone. TEP should not regress.

A reasonable person might suggest keeping IP checks at some point in the new Citizenship system, but EM will not do this. To clarify the arguments against IP checks, IP checks were removed firstly because there are many supposedly commonplace methods to defeat IP checking such as switching carriers or ISPs, secondly because of the assumption that WA multying will be caught by NS, and thirdly because some people are not comfortable sharing their IP. The first is a legitimate concern but making it easier for evaders is not a solution. The second does nothing to allay my fears of Conclave and OOC ban evaders. The third is just unreasonable. There exist stringent laws on what can be done with IPs, these laws bind everyone uniformly.

For these reasons, I contend such a system does nothing to combat vote stackers such as those that helped Fedele. It cripples TEP's security and raises OOC concerns as well. What a disaster this system would have been if it was enacted under Fedele.

Secondly, the system actively excludes r/d-ers by mandating they disclose their WA regardless of operational security. EM's response has been that they should deal with it. This is not an acceptable response since a reason for many supporting this system was expanded accessibility. It fails here as it does in security. A solution has been proposed that commanders vouch for such individuals. Aside from opsec concerns, can such an important system be left to the trust of foreign military commanders? A commander that lies would be an invaluable tool for the same vote stackers the WA requirement actually halts.

Thirdly, the headache of reapplying every single election is guaranteed to annoy many people. This headache extends to the new commissioners as well since now they have to remask and reverify each and every single time there's an election or referendum. And what does TEP have to show for it? A gutted security system and reduced accessibility.

Fourthly, the consequences of such destabilizing changes will inevitably require changes to laws that otherwise would cause problems. The immediate concern is the RMBRA which in its current state would require every offender to be tried before being ejected and banned for RMB misconduct under the proposed citizenship system.

EM has demonstrated the problems of overhauling a legal system quite well. Just recently, EM put up a replacement for the Citizenship Act. First, it says multiple citizenships are forbidden. This makes it a crime for me to create a puppet for card farming if it spawns in TEP. Such a heinous crime bad RNG is. EM also cripples the Praesidium's ability to prohibit nations from entering TEP. Citizens can't be prohibited. Any prohibited nation can bypass it by spawning in TEP with a puppet and declaring that since they now have citizenship by lawful means, their prohibition is unlawful. They never entered TEP since their puppet was never outside to begin with, they were always in TEP. And with this, another security system is defeated by bad planning. All of this could have been avoided if things were left alone. Nothing was broken, nothing needed fixing.

I have to remind everyone of the severity of the issue. The citizenship system is not a toy for people to propose huge overhauls to. Changes have ripple effects and they can be disastrous for the region. The system before worked. It had kinks, but it had nothing that needed such dangerous reforms. Conclave bans, Praesdium prohibitions, and OOC bans now have zero weight. There has been no adequate justification for the railroading of a new system. In the name of accessibility, security, and resident rights, TEP has closed its doors to some, crippled some of the most important security systems the region has, and created a massive headache for everyone trying to iron out the many kinks of this unjustifiable system. Legislation is supposed to create an ideal version of TEP. This is not ideal. This is a solution that is searching for a problem.
Last edited by Eastern Pacific News Service on Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Varanius
Diplomat
 
Posts: 726
Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Varanius » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:20 pm

Eastern Pacific News Service wrote:New Ally Spotlight: The Alstroemerian Commonwealths
You can do better than this TEP. Be original.
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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:32 pm

Yggdrasil and Iwaku are great allies to have. Between this and the risk taken on Thaecia paying off, TEP's foreign affairs have been knocking it out of the park in the past few years, which feels weird to say.
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Lord Dominator
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8900
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:41 pm

RiderSyl wrote:Yggdrasil and Iwaku are great allies to have. Between this and the risk taken on Thaecia paying off, TEP's foreign affairs have been knocking it out of the park in the past few years, which feels weird to say.

For all the weird things it can spit out, being willing in general to have relations with anyone does produce some good gems.

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Gorundu
Envoy
 
Posts: 350
Founded: May 02, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Gorundu » Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:17 am

Varanius wrote:
Eastern Pacific News Service wrote:New Ally Spotlight: The Alstroemerian Commonwealths
You can do better than this TEP. Be original.

While such an idea is by no means original, it is one of those that everyone has probably thought of at some point. No one is stealing from anyone else.
Last edited by Gorundu on Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:06 am

Gorundu wrote:
Varanius wrote: You can do better than this TEP. Be original.

While such an idea is by no means original, it is one of those that everyone has probably thought of at some point. No one is stealing from anyone else.

That's an interesting spin, and one I might have to use the next time someone calls something I do unoriginal. :p "We're all unoriginal here, some of us are just forward about it!"
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Zukchiva
Envoy
 
Posts: 253
Founded: Dec 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Zukchiva » Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:41 am

Varanius wrote:
Eastern Pacific News Service wrote:New Ally Spotlight: The Alstroemerian Commonwealths
You can do better than this TEP. Be original.

It's a well used format that an author (not TEP as a region) decided to use. Don't see the issue in that. Don't regions share and copy ideas all the time? Wouldnt that happen moreso for more generalized ideas like this FA spotlight thing, which multiple regions have used in some way?

Im personally happy we have an unoriginal yet well-written article discussing the relationship of our regions. Thanks to Aurora for writing it. ^-^
Last edited by Zukchiva on Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Aenglaland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 643
Founded: Dec 01, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Aenglaland » Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:49 am

Tbh when I first heard about the new citizenship system, I was a bit surprised. Personally I don't believe it's a good move, but if it was approved by the majority, that's all that matters.
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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:57 pm

Aenglaland wrote:Personally I don't believe it's a good move, but if it was approved by the majority, that's all that matters.

The East Pacific has been reclassified from Father Knows Best State to Tyranny by Majority.
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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2764
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:03 am

To assist Zukchiva's well reasoned argument and tie it up with a nice, pretty bow, I will just point out the following:

Under TEP's new system, all I have to do is resign WA on my main, apply it to another nation unknown to everyone, and I too can be a voting citizen of TEP and have a say in all of your elections and referendums. So can all my friends! I currently have no inclination to do this, because retirement, but you never know. Given all the grief TEP has caused me and mine over the years after the many times I've tried to warn TEP of impending danger, I won't rule it out with you making it so easy.

So I guess just consider yourselves warned? Again. By me. Like the last several times you've done something monumentally absurd and it proved disastrous.

Edit:

Seconds ago: Cormactopia Prime resigned from the World Assembly.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RiderSyl
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6309
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby RiderSyl » Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:39 am

Personally, I've come around to accept and applaud how they're going about this. NS needs a region to fulfill the role that Osiris and Lazarus left vacant when they stabilized.
TEP has stepped up to the plate to fill their shoes as the easily-subverted region, weakening the ability of their legislative wing to provide checks and balances, weakening their internal security, and just generally begging to be couped.

Of course they're gonna give people grief that warn them about what they're doing. They know what they're doing, Cormac. They just don't want it out there in public spaces where the newer TEPers can see it. It kinda gives the game away, y'know?

Anyway, to the secret cabal in TEP (that totally doesn't exist) - I hope the "soft coup" (that's totally never going to happen) results in a cool TEP. otherwise this whole song and dance is gonna feel very, very pointless. :p
Last edited by RiderSyl on Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ashmoria
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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2764
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:00 pm

As it happens, it doesn't look like I'm going to be around to test TEP's new system personally. :lol:

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