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American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is it no longer possible to collaborate with political opponents at this stage?

It is no longer possible.
144
38%
It is possible.
92
24%
Collaboration is possible if we have similar economic views.
25
7%
Collaboration is possible if we have similar cultural/social views.
58
15%
Why would I collaborate with anyone? Going monke is the best way forward.
58
15%
 
Total votes : 377

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Greater Cesnica
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Anarchy

American Politics Thread VI: Can't We All Just Get Along?

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:42 am

Old thread can be found here.
Well, this is it. The sixth iteration of the American Politics Thread. Here's hoping we have even more civil, and completely rational debate here! :p

So, I have decided to focus the poll and title of this thread on collaboration. Specifically, the question of whether collaborating with political opponents is possible. What do I think personally? I'll collaborate with anyone who seeks to end the statist and coercive socioeconomic paradigm we reside in. To fight the oppression of the state and the corporate oligarchy. In that regard, if someone who disagrees with me politically on certain issues but otherwise wants the same end goal wishes to fight alongside me, so be it. However, I do believe that someone who fundamentally wants the same goal as I do is no political opponent of mine. In that sense, I believe that collaboration with political opponents is no longer feasible.

We know the drill- follow the rules, stay sane, and have fun debating!
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:53 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:44 am

the answer to the thread title is no
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
"“I did not attend his funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
it's all propaganda

Headline of the day: Daniel Hale, man who exposed illegal US drone warfare program, sentenced to 45 months in prison

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Exalted Inquellian State
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:44 am

*Mongolian throat Singing 5: The Struggle to Survive*
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The Temple of the Computer
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Founded: May 02, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

American Politics Thread VI: Return of Joe Manchin.

Postby The Temple of the Computer » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:45 am

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=501959 The last thread.

Welcome Back Republicans and Democrats, Libertarians and Greens, Kowani and GMS, to Thread that contains almost all american politics.

You already know the drill already, with over 45% of the american population already fully vaccinated, without any further Adieu, Let us begin this newest edition finally.
Last edited by The Temple of the Computer on Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:45 am

Kowani wrote:the answer to the thread title is no


So much this lol
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The Temple of the Computer
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Temple of the Computer » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:46 am

Fuck, I was too slow, but anyway I love that new thread smell.
#FreeNSGRojava

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Esthe
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Esthe » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:47 am

It feels like we created the last thread yesterday.
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Torisakia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Torisakia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:49 am

Collaborating with political opponents is like putting a lion and a rooster in the same pen and expecting them be friends.
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Andsed
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Andsed » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:51 am

Bipartisanship is pretty much a joke now. The world is dying, I really have no interest in cooperating for half assed measures.
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Sundiata
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Sundiata » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:52 am

Ok, isn't Joe Manchin just doing the same thing as Joe Lieberman under the Obama administration? Preventing a public option to appease his campaign donors?
Last edited by Sundiata on Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:52 am

Millioniare attempts to purchase justice in New York

Tali Farhadian Weinstein announced her candidacy for Manhattan district attorney in July 2020, joining a crowded field of candidates for the June 22 primary. At least eight other contenders have jockeyed for attention since last summer. And all of them, to varying degrees, have sought to position themselves as progressive or reform-minded alternatives to a stilted status quo. (Cyrus Vance, who has served as Manhattan DA since 2010, is not seeking reelection.)

Some candidates wear their progressive label more credibly than others. Janos Marton, a prominent advocate of closing the Rikers Island jail complex, announced his campaign with a plan to slash Manhattan’s jail population by 80 percent. Tahanie Aboushi, endorsed by the Working Families Party and Bernie Sanders, pledged to introduce a policy of non- or delayed prosecution for many misdemeanors and to provide alternative-to-incarceration programs in all cases, “no exceptions.” Eliza Orlins, a longtime public defender, has consistently led the race in small-dollar donations while campaigning on what she describes as a “decarceral vision” for the DA’s office.

The presence of Aboushi, Marton, and Orlins in the race established a principled (and competitive) progressive pole against which more moderate candidates were forced to pitch their own positions — including former federal prosecutor Alvin Bragg, whom Marton endorsed after dropping out of the race in April. Even more significantly, Aboushi and Orlins demonstrated early on that a bold anti-incarceration agenda could be electorally viable in Manhattan by amassing endorsements, small donors, and volunteers.


As recently as April, an optimistic observer could be forgiven for thinking that the “progressive prosecutor” movement — embodied by figures like Philadelphia’s Larry Krasner and San Francisco’s Chesa Boudin — was on the cusp of claiming Manhattan. Two years after the razor-thin defeat of Tiffany Cabán’s campaign for Queens DA, the race represented another referendum on New York City’s expansive law-and-order infrastructure — and a rare opportunity for residents to vote for a reduction in the city’s capacity to send people to jail.

But elites had other plans. With breathtaking speed, Tali Farhadian Weinstein was elevated from minor player to presumed front-runner thanks to a wave of big-dollar donations. In mid-April, Gothamist reported that Farhadian Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor and director of an underperforming conviction integrity unit in Brooklyn, had out-fundraised her nearest opponent (Bragg) by more than two to one. “Wall Street Has Chosen Its Candidate,” read Gothamist’s headline.

While Farhadian Weinstein, like so many others in the race, rushes to call herself a progressive and a reformer, her platform reveals she is well to the right of nearly every other candidate on nearly every important issue — from sentencing to policing to felony murder.

“Tali is a favorite among financial services and other members of the business community who know her both socially and professionally,” one private sector lobbyist told Gothamist. The lobbyist went on to say that “the business community has generally thought that Cy Vance has done a good job at reconciling quality of life and criminal justice issues.” Farhadian Weinstein’s meaningless campaign slogan, “Real reform is about results,” makes sense when you realize that, for her wealthy donors, the candidate represents what the lobbyist called “continuity” and “a moderate approach.”

At the time, other candidates were unruffled by Farhadian Weinstein’s deep pockets — Aboushi and Orlins emphasized that their campaigns were driven by small donors, while Bragg and others questioned Farhadian Weinstein’s ability to credibly investigate and prosecute financial crime.

But in the weeks since, Farhadian Weinstein has taken the spending offensive to new heights. What had previously been a scandalous, if predictable, imbalance of campaign resources has become what attorney David Menschel calls “the most outrageous effort to flat-out purchase a district attorney position in America ever.”

Farhadian Weinstein donated $8.3 million of her own money to her campaign, boosting her fundraising total to about $10 million more than any other candidate in the race. “It’s an enormous amount of money to spend on a local DA race and it [seems like she’s] trying to buy justice,” the director of Common Cause New York, a watchdog organization, told Gothamist.

Farhadian Weinstein outspent her opponents seven to one between May 17 and June 7. During that time, the campaign shelled out roughly $6.5 million to pay for mailers, TV ads, and digital outreach.

This digital outreach included an online “push poll” that purported to be nonpartisan while misrepresenting rival candidate Alvin Bragg’s record and campaign platform. In a televised debate, another DA candidate, city assembly member Dan Quart, called Farhadian Weinstein’s attack on Bragg “disgraceful.”

The next day, the Farhadian Weinstein campaign used portions of a $5 million ad buy to circulate images of Quart and Bragg together under the headline “Do you want a District Attorney Who Protects Domestic Abusers?” (Quart and Bragg, along with Aboushi and Orlins, indicated in a candidates’ survey that they would not pursue domestic charges in cases where neither the accused nor the accuser wants to proceed.)

Farhadian Weinstein, who owns a $25.5 million Fifth Avenue apartment and a $13 million summerhouse in the Hamptons, has characterized comments about her affluence as “misogyny.” But it is clear her immense wealth is relevant to her newfound viability as a DA candidate. And as her rivals have pointed out, it also raises significant questions about what kind of DA she’d be in office.

The source of much of Farhadin Weinstein’s personal wealth is her marriage to Boaz Weinstein, the founder and manager of the hedge fund Saba Capital Management. ProPublica recently revealed that the couple declared an annual income as high as $107 million in the last ten years, although they paid no federal income tax in 2017, 2015, or 2013. And Gothamist uncovered that among her donors are a number of finance and real estate heavyweights.

As Ross Barkan wrote in Jacobin last month, “The problem with Farhadian Weinstein raising so much from Wall Street is that the Manhattan DA is the preeminent investigator, along with the US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, of white-collar crime in America. Tax evasion, money laundering, and real estate cases of national and global import all fall under the purview of the Manhattan office.”

A key criticism sitting DA Cyrus Vance faced throughout his tenure was that he was insufficiently aggressive in pursuing financial and other corporate crimes. Beyond her hollow slogan, Farhadian Weinstein has given voters no reason to believe she would be any different.

There are no term limits for DAs in New York, and the Manhattan office is especially famous for the longevity of its chief prosecutors. Vance served just three terms. But his predecessors, Robert Morganthau and Frank Hogan, each held office for more than thirty years. In nearly a century, then, the most powerful law enforcement position in one of the most significant jurisdictions in the country has been occupied by only three men.

Manhattan voters have a choice to make on Tuesday — and they can only make one. (Because district attorney is a state position, not a municipal one, ranked-choice voting won’t apply in this race.)
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
"“I did not attend his funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
it's all propaganda

Headline of the day: Daniel Hale, man who exposed illegal US drone warfare program, sentenced to 45 months in prison

User avatar
Exalted Inquellian State
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Posts: 3180
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:53 am

The Anti-Thread.
My Kaiserreich Cold War RP-https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=507613&sid=a338bded6a6009aba44e8b2d0d1d04c4

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The Temple of the Computer
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Founded: May 02, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Temple of the Computer » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:54 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:The Anti-Thread.

To be fair, I was too slow to link my new thread in the old thread, bu this thread is older by two minutes at least.
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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:55 am

Torisakia wrote:Collaborating with political opponents is like putting a lion and a rooster in the same pen and expecting them be friends.

The battle for the ages.
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Senkaku
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:55 am


1. I supplicate and beseech you to make this the thread where you start spoilering full-text article pastes

2. Global warming literally cannot sink Manhattan soon enough
haters will see you growing on a finite planet and say you can't grow infinitely

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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:55 am

From the prior iteration:
Lady Victory wrote:Anarcho-bullshit like this makes genuine anti-authoritarianism look silly, you know.

The state by its intrinsic nature espouses coercion on some level. The police are fundamentally the hounds of tyrants.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Ex-Nation

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:58 am

No we can't get along and my message to any fan of the former president is simple. I have no intention nor desire to do you harm, but we are not friends and we can't be cool if you like the pathological liar we last had in office. I would appreciate if any Trump supporters just stay away from me. I'm not trying to understand any longer why someone would back a man who talked about murdering children or allowed people to die from covid.
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Sincluda
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sincluda » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:59 am

That last thread filled fast.
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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:59 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:No we can't get along and my message to any fan of the former president is simple. I have no intention nor desire to do you harm, but we are not friends and we can't be cool if you like the pathological liar we last had in office. I would appreciate if any Trump supporters just stay away from me. I'm not trying to understand any longer why someone would back a man who talked about murdering children or allowed people to die from covid.

Roj, one can at least try to de-Trumpify them. Like I have before.

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Kowani
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Posts: 40119
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:59 am

Senkaku wrote:

1. I supplicate and beseech you to make this the thread where you start spoilering full-text article pastes

2. Global warming literally cannot sink Manhattan soon enough

sure, why not
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
"“I did not attend his funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it."
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
it's all propaganda

Headline of the day: Daniel Hale, man who exposed illegal US drone warfare program, sentenced to 45 months in prison

User avatar
Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21867
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:01 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:No we can't get along and my message to any fan of the former president is simple. I have no intention nor desire to do you harm, but we are not friends and we can't be cool if you like the pathological liar we last had in office. I would appreciate if any Trump supporters just stay away from me. I'm not trying to understand any longer why someone would back a man who talked about murdering children or allowed people to die from covid.

Roj, one can at least try to de-Trumpify them. Like I have before.

is “de-Trumpification” a plata thing or a plomo thing? Because I’m pretty sure just reasoned conversation over a beer isn’t gonna cut it
haters will see you growing on a finite planet and say you can't grow infinitely

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:01 am

Prog dems: Americans need publicHealthcare. We can't have people forgoing treatment because they'd have to pay out of pocket.

House GOP: Liberals, you say you just want to improve society and yet vuvezla communism antifa vote was rigged.

The Joe Chiefs of Staff (Joe Biden and Joe Manchin): "We just want to get everyone to compromise."
Last edited by Borderlands of Rojava on Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Torisakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15928
Founded: Jun 04, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Torisakia » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:02 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:No we can't get along and my message to any fan of the former president is simple. I have no intention nor desire to do you harm, but we are not friends and we can't be cool if you like the pathological liar we last had in office. I would appreciate if any Trump supporters just stay away from me. I'm not trying to understand any longer why someone would back a man who talked about murdering children or allowed people to die from covid.

Roj, one can at least try to de-Trumpify them. Like I have before.

Sounds like that has about the same rate of success as a fish does at climbing a tree.
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