[DRAFT #4d, I GUESS] Protecting the Right to Vote

[Kenmoria]

"I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."

Maria vyn Nysen sighs again, visibly torn. "The ideal of giving everyone the right to vote looks pretty from the outside, but has several pockets of worms when examined from the inside," she pursed her lips and remained silent for a moment. "Delegate-Ambassador Smith, couldn't the crimes the delegation of Bananaistan mentioned be worked into the definition of a "relevant crime"? Or perhaps a step further: any crime that significantly violates the morals of a society? Or of civilised society? Or "the morals upheld by this august body"?"

“I must completely disagree with this, ambassador. The entire point of this proposal is to ensure that the right to vote is given to all, as a right generally should be. Though those crimes are indeed abominable, the perpetrators thereof will not impair anyone else’s rights by voting, so there is no proper basis for restricting their right to vote. If rights are based on someone maintaining good conduct, then I question whether they are rights at all. The right to movement being impaired in prison is an exception, because that exists to prevent further crime, which voting does not cause.”

[Bananaistan]

"I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."

"Despite being from a 'backwards hellhole' that is considering 'dictating to you how you vote,' I am curious to see what the delegate from Tinhampton has to say about this.

"Though, ambassador, I will note the only thing keeping me from supporting this in all forms just to watch you foaming at the mouth at some 'dictatorship building goodwill by sticking its oar in' is my oath to my Queen as a knight and the very serious ramifications that would befall me should I betray it. How interesting, then, that the very qualities of my nation you detest are the ones that make me more inclined to hear the answer to your charge. What great irony it is."

“Ultimately no Bananaman will be foaming at the mouth because of this. The Party’s right to freedom of association is already enshrined in international law. But we do regret that the proletariat in the so called liberal democracies have to put up with you with your medieval title considering who amongst them should and shouldn’t vote.

Maria vyn Nysen sighs again, visibly torn. "The ideal of giving everyone the right to vote looks pretty from the outside, but has several pockets of worms when examined from the inside," she pursed her lips and remained silent for a moment. "Delegate-Ambassador Smith, couldn't the crimes the delegation of Bananaistan mentioned be worked into the definition of a "relevant crime"? Or perhaps a step further: any crime that significantly violates the morals of a society? Or of civilised society? Or "the morals upheld by this august body"?"

“I must completely disagree with this, ambassador. The entire point of this proposal is to ensure that the right to vote is given to all, as a right generally should be. Though those crimes are indeed abominable, the perpetrators thereof will not impair anyone else’s rights by voting, so there is no proper basis for restricting their right to vote. If rights are based on someone maintaining good conduct, then I question whether they are rights at all. The right to movement being impaired in prison is an exception, because that exists to prevent further crime, which voting does not cause.”

“But you’re happy enough with the vote being stripped from communist rebels? Typical liberal: always allying with the hard right and fascists against socialists.”

[Greater Cesnica]

["I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."

"I would provide voting rights to utter scum than disenfranchise all the criminals not exempted by this prohibition. In addition, just consider all of the wrongfully convicted that will enjoy enfranchisement thanks to this resolution.

Though, I will note, that I prefer the last two exemptions pertaining to killing or serious injury being inflicted for a political goal and crimes pertaining to the overthrow of a government or governmental subdivision to be nixed from this draft. I do believe that if we will be granting pedophiles and child killers enfranchisement, that we should grant the same to rebels imprisoned for resisting tyranny."

[Trellania]

"Despite being from a 'backwards hellhole' that is considering 'dictating to you how you vote,' I am curious to see what the delegate from Tinhampton has to say about this.

"Though, ambassador, I will note the only thing keeping me from supporting this in all forms just to watch you foaming at the mouth at some 'dictatorship building goodwill by sticking its oar in' is my oath to my Queen as a knight and the very serious ramifications that would befall me should I betray it. How interesting, then, that the very qualities of my nation you detest are the ones that make me more inclined to hear the answer to your charge. What great irony it is."

“Ultimately no Bananaman will be foaming at the mouth because of this. The Party’s right to freedom of association is already enshrined in international law. But we do regret that the proletariat in the so called liberal democracies have to put up with you with your medieval title considering who amongst should and shouldn’t vote.”

"And yet, this assembly has accepted my nation and allows me to present my voice here. So that means any vote I give, regardless of the issue it is, will involve my noble title dictating to the proletariat of 'so called liberal democracies.' If I vote in favor of healthcare, it will be the voice of the riche and the bourgeoisie saying the proletariat deserve it. If I vote to strengthen protections for them from the rich and powerful stealing their income, it will be a protection handed to them by the riche and the bourgeoisie. If I vote to preserve the rights of your own nation, it will be the riche and the bourgeoisie telling your people they may have what they have worked hard for.

"But as of yet, I have not heard an argument that is sufficient to convince me not to support this. I must even bow to the wisdom of Ambassador McCooley; he speaks wisdom. And I must admit that should my nation ever become a democracy, I would feel very uncomfortable risking an innocent person losing the right to their voice. No matter what class they are.

"I'm sorry, but I must agree with the wisdom stated by the delegated of Kenmoria, Daarwyrth, and Greater Cesnica. They are simply making too much sense."

[Bananaistan]

“Ultimately no Bananaman will be foaming at the mouth because of this. The Party’s right to freedom of association is already enshrined in international law. But we do regret that the proletariat in the so called liberal democracies have to put up with you with your medieval title considering who amongst should and shouldn’t vote.”

"And yet, this assembly has accepted my nation and allows me to present my voice here. So that means any vote I give, regardless of the issue it is, will involve my noble title dictating to the proletariat of 'so called liberal democracies.' If I vote in favor of healthcare, it will be the voice of the riche and the bourgeoisie saying the proletariat deserve it. If I vote to strengthen protections for them from the rich and powerful stealing their income, it will be a protection handed to them by the riche and the bourgeoisie. If I vote to preserve the rights of your own nation, it will be the riche and the bourgeoisie telling your people they may have what they have worked hard for.

"But as of yet, I have not heard an argument that is sufficient to convince me not to support this. I must even bow to the wisdom of Ambassador McCooley; he speaks wisdom. And I must admit that should my nation ever become a democracy, I would feel very uncomfortable risking an innocent person losing the right to their voice. No matter what class they are.

"I'm sorry, but I must agree with the wisdom stated by the delegated of Kenmoria, Daarwyrth, and Greater Cesnica. They are simply making too much sense."

“If this is what counts for wisdom among the ruling class in Trellania, I am confident that it will shortly take its place among the democratic nations of the world. Those who are denied their fundamental human dignity, always take it by force eventually.

“The healthcare resolutions like every other possible proposal apply equally to your nation and mine, and all other members. Only these asinine voting rights resolution apply only to a select subgroup based on how they organise their affairs. It is fundamentally unjust to regulate voting in my nation while everyone in your nation, kiddy fiddler, war criminal or honest worker is denied a say.”

[Trellania]

“If this is what counts for wisdom among the ruling class in Trellania, I am confident that it will shortly take its place among the democratic nations of the world. Those who are denied their fundamental human dignity, always take it by force eventually.

“The healthcare resolutions like every other possible proposal apply equally to your nation and mine, and all other members. Only these asinine voting rights resolution apply only to a select subgroup based on how they organise their affairs. It is fundamentally unjust to regulate voting in my nation while everyone in your nation, kiddy fiddler, war criminal or honest worker is denied a say.”

"WA #10 does not apply to nations that do not have and will never develop nukes; my nation is one of them. WA #18 does not apply to any nation that never goes to war. WA #20 and #168 don't apply to landlocked nations. I can go on." Dame Allania sighs. "Do you want to repeal them because it's unfair they apply only to nations in certain categories? Should I protest #20 and #168 because they affect me when they don't affect some other nations?

"Frankly, ambassador, in the light of the number of resolutions this assembly has passed that don't impact all nations, your complaint about fairness is utterly pointless."

[Tinhampton]

OOC: I am extremely open to adding a requirement that prison staff in member states (if not all individuals other than the voter) not attempt to interfere with the process of voting, absentee or otherwise.

---

Anderson: Russel's suggestions have been noted.
Representative vyn Nysen is reminded that Smith is not taking part in the debate on this proposal; she and Comrade Ted are further reminded that the Bay Staters' now former resolution on Voting Equality for Freed Inmates did not allow member states to disenfranchise people simply because they were formerly-imprisoned "murderers, rapists or kiddy fiddlers" - to use his words.
For Ambassador McCooley... hmmm... the final section of Article a(ii), combined with Article d(i), is designed to allow member states to disenfranchise genuine traitors while preventing them from stripping the vote from those who have merely dissented against their governments. The second-to-last section was added as a result of vyn Nysen's concerns that "political terrorists" or thereabouts would otherwise be allowed to vote. I am, of course, open to following your suggestions in these regards if they are sufficiently well-received by others.

[Tinhampton]

I remain open to adding the aforementioned requirement about election interference reduction. Everything below this line may be interpreted either as an OOC comment by myself or an IC comment by the newly-promoted Assistant Lydia Anderson.

Draft #3 has arrived. Compared to the previous draft, I have taken the difficult - although more politically convenient - decision to remove the last two "relevant crimes" from Article a(iii) as well as what used to be Article d(i). Some articles will not be changed - for instance, the current Article d(iii) will likely be retained, given that the equivalent provision in GA#476 is "subject to past and future [WA] resolutions" which could deprive the indebted of voting rights.

I have provisionally changed the title to "Protecting the Right to Vote."

[Hulldom]

"If you're intent on doing this, as I suppose you are, our delegation would look on this proposal a lot more amenably if it included protections for disabled voters as well, such as accessible ballot papers, access to polling locations, etc."

[Waldenes]

Maria vyn Nysen sighs deeply, her expression troubled. "The arguments which the delegation from Bananaistan has been putting forward are of a convincing nature, yet at the same time this proposal aligns with the ideals that Daarwyrth has embodied as a democracy since 1848. We have witnessed the progression of this particular subject over the course of two proposals at vote so far, and I must say that the delegation of Tinhampton has been outdoing themselves to try to address all the concerns," she pauses in contemplation for a moment, then nods curtly. "No, our delegation has no grounds to oppose this proposal. When it comes to a vote, it will receive our support, Delegate-Ambassador Smith."

"I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."

“Ambassador... there is a simple solution to put this argument to rest. Let us do the math. In virtually every society, such problematic individuals represent such a small minority of the electorate that, quite frankly, it will make no difference. Do you really think there are enough murderers that will be able to vote a referendum through to legalize murder? It is a statistical impossibility, Ambassador. Does this not render the point moot?”

[CoraSpia]

"If you're intent on doing this, as I suppose you are, our delegation would look on this proposal a lot more amenably if it included protections for disabled voters as well, such as accessible ballot papers, access to polling locations, etc."

"The Haven would support this. Furthermore we would like to add provision for those who, because of disability, age or lack of transportation find it more difficult than the general population to get to their local polling place. We believe that a broader proposal, taking into account more disadvantaged prospective voters, would be more likely to pass."

[Bananaistan]

“If this is what counts for wisdom among the ruling class in Trellania, I am confident that it will shortly take its place among the democratic nations of the world. Those who are denied their fundamental human dignity, always take it by force eventually.

“The healthcare resolutions like every other possible proposal apply equally to your nation and mine, and all other members. Only these asinine voting rights resolution apply only to a select subgroup based on how they organise their affairs. It is fundamentally unjust to regulate voting in my nation while everyone in your nation, kiddy fiddler, war criminal or honest worker is denied a say.”

"WA #10 does not apply to nations that do not have and will never develop nukes; my nation is one of them. WA #18 does not apply to any nation that never goes to war. WA #20 and #168 don't apply to landlocked nations. I can go on." Dame Allania sighs. "Do you want to repeal them because it's unfair they apply only to nations in certain categories? Should I protest #20 and #168 because they affect me when they don't affect some other nations?

"Frankly, ambassador, in the light of the number of resolutions this assembly has passed that don't impact all nations, your complaint about fairness is utterly pointless."

"What country would not be effected by a nuclear war? What countries are not currently effected by international trade through international waters? What countries are not effected by the global environment?

"These are all matters that affect everyone regardless of the particular circumstances of individual countries. Voting rights only impact the real people's democracies and the so called liberal democracies. All the rest still continue on their merry way oppressing their peoples. Your point is pointless.

"I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."

“Ambassador... there is a simple solution to put this argument to rest. Let us do the math. In virtually every society, such problematic individuals represent such a small minority of the electorate that, quite frankly, it will make no difference. Do you really think there are enough murderers that will be able to vote a referendum through to legalize murder? It is a statistical impossibility, Ambassador. Does this not render the point moot?”

"The problem is not that such "individuals" might attempt to seize control - the problem is that such "individuals" have committed vile crimes against others, society and the revolution. They are more than welcome to regain their full rights after they've made restitution, been rehabilitated and paid their debt to society. Before that, no way - there has to be punishment for their fundamental breach of societal and revolutionary responsibilities."

[Tinhampton]

"If you're intent on doing this, as I suppose you are, our delegation would look on this proposal a lot more amenably if it included protections for disabled voters as well, such as accessible ballot papers, access to polling locations, etc."

"The Haven would support this. Furthermore we would like to add provision for those who, because of disability, age or lack of transportation find it more difficult than the general population to get to their local polling place. We believe that a broader proposal, taking into account more disadvantaged prospective voters, would be more likely to pass."

Anderson: Consider it done, both of you... I hope. New provisions regarding candidacy at elections, voter ID, the Election Day Holiday that so many of these "America" people on RealWorldStates appear to keep pushing for, other stuff like that have been slapped on.

OOC: This proposal is unlikely to be submitted any sooner than six weeks from now or thereabouts - partially to avoid The Dreaded Voter Burnout and partially because I'm intent on submitting other things in July and August. This might be pushed back further if GC and Daar get their repeal passed

[Bananaistan]

OOC: GAR#299 section 4.

Also 2bi is bad policy. Not all people necessarily have ties to the place where they reside - if a member state wants to allow for this and allow them to vote in their "home" place, who's the WA to say that's bad?

The new bits are US-centric, simplistic nonsense. I would, however, strongly encourage you to keep adding more such micromanagement though. It's a definite way to tank this effort just like the others.

[Wallenburg]

1.f requires member states to allow incarcerated individuals to hold office, along with forbidding all sorts of reasonable limitations, such as geographic residence, age, and qualifications. That's ridiculous.

[Dexterra]

I think the right to vote would be more protected if 2e forbid any forms of voter ID laws whatsoever. Also, I suggest you add a clause to 1c which could say 'iv. that person opposes the incumbent government' or something

[Bananaistan]

I think the right to vote would be more protected if 2e forbid any forms of voter ID laws whatsoever. Also, I suggest you add a clause to 1c which could say 'iv. that person opposes the incumbent government' or something

NS =/= RL and RL =/= US. Plenty of countries have no problems with disenfranchisement while also requiring people to prove their identity. And it is rather important to ensure that only valid electors vote.

[Tinhampton]

Article 1f (former contents: "Candidacy: All individuals eligible to vote at an election must be allowed to stand at that election.") has been canned.

Anderson would in reality be far more sympathetic to requiring - rather than forbidding - the presentation of valid identification by would-be voters.

RE Dexterra's proposed Article 1c(iv): Added, albeit as a new Article 1c(ii).

No idea what Legal Competence's blocker provision has to do with this proposal.

[Bananaistan]

No idea what Legal Competence's blocker provision has to do with this proposal.

Article 1f (former contents: "Candidacy: All individuals eligible to vote at an election must be allowed to stand at that election.") has been canned.

[Hannasea]

"Suggested alternative title for this proposal:

Protecting the Right to Vote, except for people who don't have the Right to Vote

"It's a bit less concise but a bit more accurate."

Daniella Russel, MA PhD
etc.

[Araraukar]

OOC: Heatwave compounded by fever means my brain's working at like 10% capacity currently, so might be making obvious pointers you already have a fix for but which I just didn't notice...

Good faith compliance: No court or member government may bypass Articles 1b or 1c in relation to any person by any means, including by rescinding their citizenship.

So does that mean that citizenship can never be stripped from anyone in a democratic nation, because there's always going to be a new election before too long, or what?

[Tinhampton]

OOC: Heatwave compounded by fever means my brain's working at like 10% capacity currently, so might be making obvious pointers you already have a fix for but which I just didn't notice...

Good faith compliance: No court or member government may bypass Articles 1b or 1c in relation to any person by any means, including by rescinding their citizenship.

So does that mean that citizenship can never be stripped from anyone in a democratic nation, because there's always going to be a new election before too long, or what?

GA#454 (full text attached):

The World Assembly hereby bars member nations from invoking a person's debts as reason to deprive that person of the right to vote.

GA#455, the resolution that repealed GA#454 (excerpt):

Seeing numerous loopholes in the resolutions that more cruel states could employ, such as, but not limited to... Passing legislation revoking the citizenship of a citizen, and thus their right to vote if they are indebted,

"Good faith compliance" (Article 1d) exists so that member states cannot "Pass[] legislation revoking the citizenship of a citizen, and thus their right to vote if they are indebted." Could you please show me where such limits on government power exist in GA#476, the replacement for GA#454? (Hint: All provisions in GA#476 are "subject to past and future World Assembly resolutions.")

[Tinhampton]

This will be submitted about three or four weeks from now. Any more thoughts would be appreciated during that time.

[Bananaistan]

This will be submitted about three or four weeks from now. Any more thoughts would be appreciated during that time.

OOC: What's the point in continuously asking for feedback when you rarely reply to the feedback given?

[Tinhampton]

This will be submitted about three or four weeks from now. Any more thoughts would be appreciated during that time.

OOC: What's the point in continuously asking for feedback when you rarely reply to the feedback given?

I have responded to most of the feedback given so far to the best of my ability - with the exception of Hannasea's proposed title, which was supposed to be funny, and your suggestion that I "keep adding more such micromanagement though. It's a definite way to tank this effort just like the others."

The old Article 2d (former contents: "Election day holiday: Members must designate the dates of any election organised by it or its political subdivisions as paid holidays for all residents of the political subdivision(s) where that election is held.") have been removed and a new Article 2c(v) about promoting voter turnout has been included in its place. I have also included a new Article 2d, which is the non-interference provision that I teased here and I believe Araraukar suggested on Page 1.