Christian Discussion Thread XII: Soter? I hardly know her!

[Sundiata]

Indeed. The Remnant is also recognized as a hate group by SPLC. On a side note, the Church can bring more non-reactionary Catholics to the extraordinary form by authorizing it that it can be said in the vernacular.

eh, the SPLC can bite me. I mean in the 60s yeah great, but modernly they're basically a partisan organization that slanders even the slightest opposition to progressive agenda as a hate group.

You're reminding me why I fear for the Jesuits. I think they've lost a lot of influence in the church and the world. We've got a Jesuit Pope, sure. Still, they walk the line between being 'men for others' and men of the world. I'm going to be surprised if we get another Jesuit as Pope after Pope Francis. While I pray for Pope Francis, I'm not looking forward to the idea of another Jesuit pope.

[Lord Dominator]

That moment when Kowani the atheist(?)

yes

shows more goodwill towards the Vatican than the (nominal?) Catholics they’re taking down with mad facts.

i mean
i'm not an anti-theist, i don't harbour any hate towards the vatican
and while i do have criticisms, i do my best to make sure they're grounded in things that actually happened
the harder traditionalists have a movement to mobilize, and since they feel like they're fighting a war, more things become permissible
the liturgy, the language of the mass (actually those might be the same thing i don't know terminology), etc
they're all about values
or
hm
the emphasis and focus placed on what form they take is a subtext for values and power
hence why you can be a more traditionalist catholic without being a reactionary
case in point, Lumi

Honestly, I was mostly trying to make a joke about that minority of Catholics apparently being more opposed to their own church than anyone else - I may have missed the mark a tad on that

[Luminesa]

eh, the SPLC can bite me. I mean in the 60s yeah great, but modernly they're basically a partisan organization that slanders even the slightest opposition to progressive agenda as a hate group.

You're reminding me why I fear for the Jesuits. I think they've lost a lot of influence in the church and the world. We've got a Jesuit Pope, sure. Still, they walk the line between being 'men for others' and men of the world. I'm going to be surprised if we get another Jesuit as Pope after Pope Francis. While I pray for Pope Francis, I'm not looking forward to the idea of another Jesuit pope.

The Jesuits continue to be all over various college departments and write a huge breadth of theological literature and media. Sure, every order at some point is in need of organizational and spiritual reform, but...as far as being concerned for their influence, the Jesuits are probably not the order to have concern for.

[Kowani]

yes

i mean
i'm not an anti-theist, i don't harbour any hate towards the vatican
and while i do have criticisms, i do my best to make sure they're grounded in things that actually happened
the harder traditionalists have a movement to mobilize, and since they feel like they're fighting a war, more things become permissible
the liturgy, the language of the mass (actually those might be the same thing i don't know terminology), etc
they're all about values
or
hm
the emphasis and focus placed on what form they take is a subtext for values and power
hence why you can be a more traditionalist catholic without being a reactionary
case in point, Lumi

Honestly, I was mostly trying to make a joke about that minority of Catholics apparently being more opposed to their own church than anyone else - I may have missed the mark a tad on that

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
oops

[Sundiata]

yes

i mean
i'm not an anti-theist, i don't harbour any hate towards the vatican
and while i do have criticisms, i do my best to make sure they're grounded in things that actually happened
the harder traditionalists have a movement to mobilize, and since they feel like they're fighting a war, more things become permissible
the liturgy, the language of the mass (actually those might be the same thing i don't know terminology), etc
they're all about values
or
hm
the emphasis and focus placed on what form they take is a subtext for values and power
hence why you can be a more traditionalist catholic without being a reactionary
case in point, Lumi

Honestly, I was mostly trying to make a joke about that minority of Catholics apparently being more opposed to their own church than anyone else - I may have missed the mark a tad on that

Many Catholics are just tired of the lukewarmness that has permeated the culture, the church, and many of our hearts. I was critical of the Jesuits earlier but it doesn't stop with them. Because we're so weak, it's not surprising that the world falls short of God's glory. It's why we have to treat others with as much charity as we can muster.

[Sundiata]

You're reminding me why I fear for the Jesuits. I think they've lost a lot of influence in the church and the world. We've got a Jesuit Pope, sure. Still, they walk the line between being 'men for others' and men of the world. I'm going to be surprised if we get another Jesuit as Pope after Pope Francis. While I pray for Pope Francis, I'm not looking forward to the idea of another Jesuit pope.

The Jesuits continue to be all over various college departments and write a huge breadth of theological literature and media. Sure, every order at some point is in need of organizational and spiritual reform, but...as far as being concerned for their influence, the Jesuits are probably not the order to have concern for.

I see what you mean. They're widespread but my doubt is because of my experience with their catechesis. Not to repeat myself, but I feel that the Jesuits tend to forget that culture is a means and not an end. I think that the Jesuits are having a really difficult time in striving for and possessing the culture. To me, that's going to take professional excellence of a specific kind which emphasises the laity.

[Australian rePublic]

By having a lot of money.

Having a congregation to go with it is also useful

Cheers!

[Benuty]

Being real for a moment here, what's the point of subscribing to the deicide theory? I mean without Christ's death, and following the resurrection, Christianity becomes misguided at best or idolatry at worst (according to orthodox Jews it is). I subscribe to Christus Victor theory, which asserts death and resurrection as the victory over evil, sin, and death.

[Lady Victory]

Honestly, I was mostly trying to make a joke about that minority of Catholics apparently being more opposed to their own church than anyone else - I may have missed the mark a tad on that

Many Catholics are just tired of the lukewarmness that has permeated the culture, the church, and many of our hearts. I was critical of the Jesuits earlier but it doesn't stop with them. Because we're so weak, it's not surprising that the world falls short of God's glory. It's why we have to treat others with as much charity as we can muster.

Tolerance and respect are not weaknesses.

[Salus Maior]

Many Catholics are just tired of the lukewarmness that has permeated the culture, the church, and many of our hearts. I was critical of the Jesuits earlier but it doesn't stop with them. Because we're so weak, it's not surprising that the world falls short of God's glory. It's why we have to treat others with as much charity as we can muster.

Tolerance and respect are not weaknesses.

No, but the Gathering Hymnal is : P

[Salus Maior]

Being real for a moment here, what's the point of subscribing to the deicide theory? I mean without Christ's death, and following the resurrection, Christianity becomes misguided at best or idolatry at worst (according to orthodox Jews it is). I subscribe to Christus Victor theory, which asserts death and resurrection as the victory over evil, sin, and death.

Indeed. I mean, Christ died because of the sins of all humanity, not just because the Jews wanted Pilate to execute Him. I think it's obvious that both Jew and Gentile are implicated in the tragedy of Christ's crucifixion, one asking for it and the other doing it.

[North Washington Republic]

Being real for a moment here, what's the point of subscribing to the deicide theory? I mean without Christ's death, and following the resurrection, Christianity becomes misguided at best or idolatry at worst (according to orthodox Jews it is). I subscribe to Christus Victor theory, which asserts death and resurrection as the victory over evil, sin, and death.

Indeed. I mean, Christ died because of the sins of all humanity, not just because the Jews wanted Pilate to execute Him. I think it's obvious that both Jew and Gentile are implicated in the tragedy of Christ's crucifixion, one asking for it and the other doing it.

Do you subscribe to Jewish deicide?

[Tarsonis]

Indeed. I mean, Christ died because of the sins of all humanity, not just because the Jews wanted Pilate to execute Him. I think it's obvious that both Jew and Gentile are implicated in the tragedy of Christ's crucifixion, one asking for it and the other doing it.

Do you subscribe to Jewish deicide?

we subscribe to human deicide. we all killed him, as surely as if we'd hammered the nails in ourselves.

[North Washington Republic]

Do you subscribe to Jewish deicide?

we subscribe to human deicide. we all killed him, as surely as if we'd hammered the nails in ourselves.

Then the answer is no. I’m just asking because when I was a rad trad, I subscribed to the Jewish decide belief…

[Suriyanakhon]

Do you subscribe to Jewish deicide?

we subscribe to human deicide. we all killed him, as surely as if we'd hammered the nails in ourselves.

This kind of confuses me, why did all of humanity do it and not just the specific people of 1st century CE Judea?

[Salus Maior]

Indeed. I mean, Christ died because of the sins of all humanity, not just because the Jews wanted Pilate to execute Him. I think it's obvious that both Jew and Gentile are implicated in the tragedy of Christ's crucifixion, one asking for it and the other doing it.

Do you subscribe to Jewish deicide?

No.

[Salus Maior]

we subscribe to human deicide. we all killed him, as surely as if we'd hammered the nails in ourselves.

This kind of confuses me, why did all of humanity do it and not just the specific people of 1st century CE Judea?

Because the reason behind Christ dying was the sinfulness of all humanity. In the past, present, and future.

[New Visayan Islands]

This kind of confuses me, why did all of humanity do it and not just the specific people of 1st century CE Judea?

Because the reason behind Christ dying was the sinfulness of all humanity. In the past, present, and future.

IOW: Christ, though His Passion and Death, took away the sins of Humanity as a whole. Did I get that right?

[Tarsonis]

we subscribe to human deicide. we all killed him, as surely as if we'd hammered the nails in ourselves.

This kind of confuses me, why did all of humanity do it and not just the specific people of 1st century CE Judea?

Christ died not for the people of 1st century AD Judea, but for all people for all times.

[North Washington Republic]

This kind of confuses me, why did all of humanity do it and not just the specific people of 1st century CE Judea?

Because the reason behind Christ dying was the sinfulness of all humanity. In the past, present, and future.

What are some good Catholic based retorts to Calvinism and limited atonement?

[Tarsonis]

Because the reason behind Christ dying was the sinfulness of all humanity. In the past, present, and future.

What are some good Catholic based retorts to Calvinism and limited atonement?

His mother was a hamster, and his father smelled of elderberries.

[North Washington Republic]

What are some good Catholic based retorts to Calvinism and limited atonement?

His mother was a hamster, and his father smelled of elderberries.

I don’t get it.

[Salus Maior]

Because the reason behind Christ dying was the sinfulness of all humanity. In the past, present, and future.

What are some good Catholic based retorts to Calvinism and limited atonement?

John 3:16.

[Suriyanakhon]

His mother was a hamster, and his father smelled of elderberries.

I don’t get it.

Monty Python reference.

[Suriyanakhon]

This kind of confuses me, why did all of humanity do it and not just the specific people of 1st century CE Judea?

Christ died not for the people of 1st century AD Judea, but for all people for all times.

Yes, but none of us were alive back then. Holding us all responsible for Christ's death would be untrue.