NATION

PASSWORD

Re: Third World Olympic Power?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Would you support the sports initiative?

Yes
10
53%
No
9
47%
 
Total votes : 19

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39284
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Re: Third World Olympic Power?

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu May 13, 2021 5:30 am

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are the authoritarian ruler of a developing country. The country has a very strong military but in other regards, it lags behind the industrialised world.

Your advisor tells you that it might be a good idea to invest in a few sports to create better PR for your people, ideology, and regime. They suggest that you spend considerable state resources to find, promote, and develop talent in a few strategic sports (ones that are a good fit for the culture and aren't yet dominated by the First World). Even though you don't have as much money as more powerful countries, you could devote a greater percentage of the national budget to the effort and start from the really really young. Also, you would have significant cultural advantages (ex the ability to push athletes really really hard) and with the tools of your authoritarian system you could drastically restructure huge aspects of society to promote these goals without much effective backlash or anyone to veto. All the while, this could create a vehicle for nationalism and patriotism and to show the world that your system has something to offer.

It's expected that if you make enough of an effort, within two Olympic Games and perhaps even sooner at regional and international tournaments of a smaller scale, your nation could start making big splashes. As of now, the other countries of the world are distracted by other things.

So what do you say?

Would you invest in this Olympic Endeavour? Or does this sound like a folly? Keep in mind that efforts to industrialise the country and fix social issues are not mutually exclusive to this option. Please justify.

Yes. This sounds like the way to go. This has worked in the past... I'm thinking of Egypt with their squash superpower status. In the past, even second-rate powers like East Germany have been able to use the Olympics as a major vehicle to excel with. I like the idea of an authoritarian government supporting and promoting athletic excellence; and even if it ends up failing, you've successfully nurtured some kind of national talent and that's worth something. Since it's no longer feasible to start wars in most cases, promoting sports is a great way to keep the people united. Of course, I would pursue this option in tandem with efforts to improve living conditions in the country.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu May 13, 2021 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 13, 2021 5:35 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are the authoritarian ruler of a developing country. The country has a very strong military but in other regards, it lags behind the industrialised world.

This is not possible.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129504
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Thu May 13, 2021 5:41 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are the authoritarian ruler of a developing country. The country has a very strong military but in other regards, it lags behind the industrialised world.

This is not possible.


Best korea?

And we shall take our rightful place as best Curling nation ever

FUCK YOU CANADA
Last edited by Ethel mermania on Thu May 13, 2021 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

User avatar
Picairn
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10549
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Thu May 13, 2021 5:47 am

Sport? Why would I invest in sport? Stadiums are a giant waste of money. I would rather put my money on industrialization, mass production and gradual liberalization of the economy to significantly enrich my nation.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Social democrat, passionate political observer, and naval warfare enthusiast.
More NSG-y than NSG veterans
♛ The Empire of Picairn ♛
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
Colonel (Brevet) of the North Pacific Army, COO of Warzone Trinidad

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Thu May 13, 2021 6:07 am

Picairn wrote:Sport? Why would I invest in sport? Stadiums are a giant waste of money. I would rather put my money on industrialization, mass production and gradual liberalization of the economy to significantly enrich my nation.

Apparently, the hypothetical concerns an authoritarian leader.

Authoritarian leaders have historically shown themselves to be more concerned with appearance than competence.

It is entirely realistic for an authoritarian leader to waste their money on something like this, and build up a huge military, while letting their people suffer. Just look at North Korea (known for huge military parades and a starving populace).

Now, I wouldn't waste my money on anything like this. As you say, it's a waste of money.

But I would also never be an authoritarian leader, so this hypothetical isn't asking what I would do.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu May 13, 2021 6:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
Caliland
Envoy
 
Posts: 229
Founded: Apr 19, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Caliland » Thu May 13, 2021 6:16 am

It’s basically what authoritarian countries already do with the military, so yes.
A direct democracy on islands off the coast of California, where government affairs are filmed for a reality TV show and social media is the only way to vote. Member of UAN & ICDN

Check out my political satire RP

Not a joke nation, just heavy-handed with the humor, but can and will be serious if needed.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39284
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu May 13, 2021 9:33 am

Picairn wrote:Sport? Why would I invest in sport? Stadiums are a giant waste of money. I would rather put my money on industrialization, mass production and gradual liberalization of the economy to significantly enrich my nation.


The two are not mutually exclusive though

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 13, 2021 9:42 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Picairn wrote:Sport? Why would I invest in sport? Stadiums are a giant waste of money. I would rather put my money on industrialization, mass production and gradual liberalization of the economy to significantly enrich my nation.


The two are not mutually exclusive though

So this imaginary poor country has more than enough money for a military, and can afford to industrialise, invest in mass production, and also build stadia and invest in athletics programs.

So what you're saying is that this country is actually very rich.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39284
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu May 13, 2021 10:16 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
The two are not mutually exclusive though

So this imaginary poor country has more than enough money for a military, and can afford to industrialise, invest in mass production, and also build stadia and invest in athletics programs.

So what you're saying is that this country is actually very rich.


No just that it's not an all or nothing proposition. You can outspend other countries in sports while still having money for other objectives etc

It doesn't have to be 100% sports or 100% industrialisation/social programs/reforms. It's not all in one direction you know?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu May 13, 2021 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Samudera Darussalam
Senator
 
Posts: 4598
Founded: Aug 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Samudera Darussalam » Thu May 13, 2021 7:02 pm

If I were a dictator in this hypothetical country, I'd choose industrialization and fix social issues. For me, excellence in sports is not a priority when my country have other, more real issues to deal with.

Not that I won't have athletes go without preparation either, but it is not a priority.

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 13, 2021 7:53 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:So this imaginary poor country has more than enough money for a military, and can afford to industrialise, invest in mass production, and also build stadia and invest in athletics programs.

So what you're saying is that this country is actually very rich.


No just that it's not an all or nothing proposition. You can outspend other countries in sports while still having money for other objectives etc

It doesn't have to be 100% sports or 100% industrialisation/social programs/reforms. It's not all in one direction you know?

The point is that this allegedly developing country must necessarily be very rich to be able to afford these things. Which is to say, it is not a developing country at all, it's necessarily a wealthy developed nation.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
Mercatus
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1232
Founded: Mar 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Mercatus » Thu May 13, 2021 8:07 pm

Wait a minute, someone put me of all people in charge of a country? They expect me to actually run it?

If I dictate everything, I can organize the dissolution of that country and let the private sector fund sports.
About Me: Far-Right high schooler from Texas disillusioned with the progressive path being taken by society and propagated by young people.
Political Ideology: Right Wing Populism
Religion: Evangelical Baptist Christian

Pro: Gun Rights, Nuclear Family, Protectionist Economics, Capitalism, Israel, Border Wall, Fossil Fuels, Nuclear Energy, Traditional Social Values.
Anti: Communism, Socialism, BLM, LGBTQ Rights, Environmentalism, Affirmative Action, Globalism, Corporatism, Universalism, New Age Spirituality.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39284
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu May 13, 2021 8:19 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
No just that it's not an all or nothing proposition. You can outspend other countries in sports while still having money for other objectives etc

It doesn't have to be 100% sports or 100% industrialisation/social programs/reforms. It's not all in one direction you know?

The point is that this allegedly developing country must necessarily be very rich to be able to afford these things. Which is to say, it is not a developing country at all, it's necessarily a wealthy developed nation.


I was thinking along the lines of East Germany, Egypt, North Korea, Chiang Kai Shek era Taiwan etc

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 16402
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Free Joy State » Thu May 13, 2021 8:43 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The point is that this allegedly developing country must necessarily be very rich to be able to afford these things. Which is to say, it is not a developing country at all, it's necessarily a wealthy developed nation.


I was thinking along the lines of East Germany, Egypt, North Korea, Chiang Kai Shek era Taiwan etc

North Korea, which is on the brink of famine and which is sidelining economic development to build more weapons? North Korea that does entirely prioritise how they look in the eyes of the world while actively letting their people starve?

Yes, the Olympics is entirely the kind of wasteful, unnecessary extravagance such a government would waste their money on... while not having any money for social programmes.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu May 13, 2021 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
-Ocelot-
Minister
 
Posts: 2260
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby -Ocelot- » Fri May 14, 2021 4:47 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:Please consider the following hypothetical:

You are the authoritarian ruler of a developing country. The country has a very strong military but in other regards, it lags behind the industrialised world.
[/spoiler]


Just say China

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59282
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri May 14, 2021 4:50 am

Oh boy we are in charge of an authoritarian regime, crikey what a spanner to throw in the works, i didnt see that one coming

And it has a very strong military despite being really industrially poor compared to everywhere else thats something.


Anyway what Iffy said
Irish Nationalist from Belfast / Leftwing / Atheist / Alliance Party voter
"I never thought in terms of being a leader, i thought very simply in terms of helping people" - John Hume 1937 - 2020



I like Miniature painting, Tanks, English Gals, Video games and most importantly Cheese.


User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Fri May 14, 2021 5:23 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Oh boy we are in charge of an authoritarian regime, crikey what a spanner to throw in the works, i didnt see that one coming

And it has a very strong military despite being really industrially poor compared to everywhere else thats something.


Anyway what Iffy said

Agriculture $5,000
Education $6,000
Healthcare $4,500
Defence $10,000,000,000,000
Athletics $150

Someone who is good at economics please help me win the Olympics, my authoritarian regime has no prestige.
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
The Holy Therns
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30591
Founded: Jul 09, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Holy Therns » Fri May 14, 2021 5:42 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Oh boy we are in charge of an authoritarian regime, crikey what a spanner to throw in the works, i didnt see that one coming

And it has a very strong military despite being really industrially poor compared to everywhere else thats something.


Anyway what Iffy said

Agriculture $5,000
Education $6,000
Healthcare $4,500
Defence $10,000,000,000,000
Athletics $150

Someone who is good at economics please help me win the Olympics, my authoritarian regime has no prestige.


Sell some honor!
Platitude with attitude
Your new favorite.
MTF transperson. She/her. Lives in Sweden.
Also, N A N A ! ! !
Gallade wrote:Love, cake, wine and banter. No greater meaning to life (〜^∇^)〜

Ethel mermania wrote:to therns is to transend the pettiness of the field of play into the field of dreams.

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44082
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Fri May 14, 2021 5:43 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The point is that this allegedly developing country must necessarily be very rich to be able to afford these things. Which is to say, it is not a developing country at all, it's necessarily a wealthy developed nation.


I was thinking along the lines of East Germany, Egypt, North Korea, Chiang Kai Shek era Taiwan etc

East Germany was many things and militarily powerful was not one of them (No Warsaw Pact country except the USSR could really be considered such), Egypt is the richest country in Africa, and North Korea's military requires taking most of the country's money while still producing piss poor results.
Last edited by New haven america on Fri May 14, 2021 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44082
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Fri May 14, 2021 5:44 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Oh boy we are in charge of an authoritarian regime, crikey what a spanner to throw in the works, i didnt see that one coming

And it has a very strong military despite being really industrially poor compared to everywhere else thats something.


Anyway what Iffy said

Agriculture $5,000
Education $6,000
Healthcare $4,500
Defence $10,000,000,000,000
Athletics $150

Someone who is good at economics please help me win the Olympics, my authoritarian regime has no prestige.

Iffy, be real here.

Do the masses really need healthcare?
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 163844
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Fri May 14, 2021 6:01 am

New haven america wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Agriculture $5,000
Education $6,000
Healthcare $4,500
Defence $10,000,000,000,000
Athletics $150

Someone who is good at economics please help me win the Olympics, my authoritarian regime has no prestige.

Iffy, be real here.

Do the masses really need healthcare?

Smart.

Defence $10,000,000,004,500
He/Him

beating the devil
we never run from the devil
we never summon the devil
we never hide from from the devil
we never

User avatar
British West Zuzunia
Attaché
 
Posts: 79
Founded: May 18, 2006
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby British West Zuzunia » Fri May 14, 2021 10:29 am

The Holy Therns wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Agriculture $5,000
Education $6,000
Healthcare $4,500
Defence $10,000,000,000,000
Athletics $150

Someone who is good at economics please help me win the Olympics, my authoritarian regime has no prestige.


Sell some honor!

But we already have an honor deficit! I made my sister's husband's brother a general to ensure his loyalty, and he led his unwilling conscript troops valiant force of volunteers cunningly into a swamp to cover their retreat, whereupon they were all courageously eaten by crocodiles, so we have to slaughter a bunch of dumb animals to restore our honor. At least now I have a job for my wife's second cousin!


Finally figured out how to approach these threads. Usually I'm Eahland, but BWZ's particular brand of incompetence and insanity works a lot better with the IMverse.

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Fri May 14, 2021 1:44 pm

The Holy Therns wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Agriculture $5,000
Education $6,000
Healthcare $4,500
Defence $10,000,000,000,000
Athletics $150

Someone who is good at economics please help me win the Olympics, my authoritarian regime has no prestige.


Sell some honor!

Is it stolen valour if the government officially sells it?

User avatar
Dakini
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23085
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Dakini » Fri May 14, 2021 1:50 pm

Picairn wrote:Sport? Why would I invest in sport? Stadiums are a giant waste of money. I would rather put my money on industrialization, mass production and gradual liberalization of the economy to significantly enrich my nation.

Not every sport requires a stadium. Some really don't fit into a stadium (e.g. marathoms, triathalons, skiing (or any sport that involves going down a mountain, surfing can't happen in a stadium)) and others don't really need them (e.g. swimming or diving require a pool, which doesn't need to have spectators, track and field events require a field, gymnastics requires a few pieces of specialised equipment and mats, basketball just need a gym).


That said, I don't think it's possible to develop a sports program in four or even eight years. Even if you're able to poach the best coaches from other countries (you probably can't), you're probably going to need to be encouraging children to do a particular sport from a young age so that would take probably more like 20+ years. Which sport would depend on climate and the facilities you have available and which sports are already popular in the country.

edit to add: another option is to try to poach athletes from other countries, either by accepting them as refugees or giving them some special fast track to citizenship. You'd have to give them some coaching to keep them on top of their game, but someone else would have done most of the training.
Last edited by Dakini on Fri May 14, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Diarcesia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6783
Founded: Aug 21, 2016
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Diarcesia » Fri May 14, 2021 2:40 pm

Picairn wrote:Sport? Why would I invest in sport? Stadiums are a giant waste of money. I would rather put my money on industrialization, mass production and gradual liberalization of the economy to significantly enrich my nation.

Bread and circuses

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Barinive, Dazchan, Estado Novo Portugues, Forsher, Tiami, Umeria

Advertisement

Remove ads