UK Politics Thread IX: Try turning the UK off and on again.

[The Nihilistic view]

Doesn't matter, conservative or a few years ago before the EU referendum conservative and UKIP is normally around or over 50% of the vote.

You seriously underestimate how blue most of the South East is. The 2019 general election had us on 54% of the vote and that's normally not quite as good.

Sure, in the South, but That would be within that devolved Legislature.
They would still be able to spend money how they see fit, and oversee issues which they can focus on, like education, policing, environment, instead of waiting for central government all the time.

A federal UK will help places deal with situations without waiting for action by Westminster. Too much control from a central authority limits reactions from local areas. A Federal system allows this.

The money is in the south, the North can't set an income tax rate on the South East or have a slice of any regional inheritance tax from London.

So the North would have two choices, cut spending or increase taxes it was responsible for to raise the money for its discretionary spending.

[Celritannia]

Sure, in the South, but That would be within that devolved Legislature.
They would still be able to spend money how they see fit, and oversee issues which they can focus on, like education, policing, environment, instead of waiting for central government all the time.

A federal UK will help places deal with situations without waiting for action by Westminster. Too much control from a central authority limits reactions from local areas. A Federal system allows this.

The money is in the south, the North can't set an income tax rate on the South East or have a slice of any regional inheritance tax from London.

So the North would have two choices, cut spending or increase taxes it was responsible for to raise the money for its discretionary spending.

You know why that is? Because of fucking Tory cuts.
Which is why we need Federalisation, to stop the unequal distribution of wealth by Parliament.

The wealth should be redistributed so the North can be revitalised. But guess what? The Tories lied about a Northern powerhouse.

[The Nihilistic view]

The money is in the south, the North can't set an income tax rate on the South East or have a slice of any regional inheritance tax from London.

So the North would have two choices, cut spending or increase taxes it was responsible for to raise the money for its discretionary spending.

You know why that is? Because of fucking Tory cuts.
Which is why we need Federalisation, to stop the unequal distribution of wealth by Parliament.

It's economic forces that distribute wealth around a unitary country because there is no fiscal or local policy distortion going on. There is very little central government direction that has been going on for decades and what little that there has been generally does involve central government pointing generous deals for manufacturing to locate in various poorer areas or government bodies being located in such areas. Ever wondered why the DVLA is located in Swansea or the New Treasury office is going to Darlington? One of the major reasons is it's form of the government bringing employment to areas that need support because the private sector isn't strong enough.

Parliment and government do unequally distribute wealth, it's just they unequally distribute it to poorer areas. There isn't anything wrong with that but federalism would reduce the scope of the central government to do that and would leave certain areas unable to pay for stuff.

[Hurdergaryp]

“This thread is just a place for foreigners who hate Britain and self-hating British lefties to shit all over the UK.”
― Old Tyrannia

(Image)

This thread is for discussing UK Politics, whether it be Brexit, the government response to Coronavirus, or anything else politically related that crops up in the news. Please observe the forum rules when participating here. If you see someone breaking the rules then please report it in Moderation.

The last thread is here.

How Do You Feel About HS2?
Support 22 19%
Mildly Support 19 17%
Indifferent 12 11%
Mildly Oppose 12 11%
Oppose 16 14%
Does the "H" Stand for Hasselhoff? 32 28%

How Do You Feel About the Upcoming Departure From the EU?
Pleased 66 37%
Kinda Pleased 12 7%
Indifferent 23 13%
Kinda Sad 14 8%
Sad 33 19%
*Transmission Indecipherable Due to Being in a Bunker Filled With Memorabilia and Food From the EU* 29 16%

Is the UK Government Doing Enough to Stop the Spread of Coronavirus?
Yes 36 13%
Mostly 36 13%
Don't Know 25 9%
Barely 32 12%
No 74 28%
We Need to Bring Back WW2-Style Rationing so That Everyone Gets Equal and Guaranteed Access to Toilet Paper 64 24%

Should Dominic Cummings resign?
Yes 48 63%
No, but he should apologise for his error of judgement 7 9%
No, and no apology needed; he acted legally and responsibly 4 5%
Undecided 4 5%
Can I drive to Barnard Castle before I vote in the poll? 13 17%

Protesters Pulled Down a Statue of Slave Trader Edward Colston, Do You Agree With Their Actions?
Yes 75 43%
No 72 41%
Yes, as long as it is replaced with a statue of David Hasselhoff. 28 16%

Were the Pubs Allowed to Reopen Too Soon?
Yes 37 66%
No 10 18%
Don't Know 4 7%
Enact Prohibition 5 9%

Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?
Yes 56 67%
No 14 17%
No *vote amended by GRU* 13 16%

Will the UK Ever Rejoin the EU?
Yes 32 37%
No 55 63%

Have you downloaded an NHS test and trace app?
Yes 16 24%
No, but I'm not opposed to doing so 23 34%
No, and I refuse to as a matter of principle 16 24%
Irrelevant; I don't own a smartphone 13 19%

How likely is a UK trade deal with the EU before the end of the transition period?
A certainty 2 1%
Very likely 4 3%
Likely 16 11%
Too close to call 26 18%
Unlikely 43 30%
Very unlikely 14 10%
Isn't going to happen 37 26%

Are you happy with the provisions of the trade deal with the EU?
Completely 12 7%
Somewhat 37 22%
Indifferent 38 23%
Not really 33 20%
Absolutely not 46 28%

Will Sturgeon Survive?
Yes, totally vindicated 23 21%
No, the dirty secrets are all exposed and her position is untenable 10 9%
Very wounded, but yes she will survive 27 25%
Very wounded, and leave soon but not immediately 9 8%
*Sips whisky, just revelling in the mess* 28 25%
Only if the Caspian Sea countries stop overfishing for caviar 13 12%

UK General Election 2021: who will you vote for? (April Fools poll)
Alba But Pronounced Properly Party 2 6%
Birthday Party 4 11%
Communist Party of Scotland 3 8%
CUK 1 3%
Monster Raving Loony Party 11 31%
REFUK 0 No votes
The Hasselhoff Party 3 8%
The Northern People's Front 1 3%
The People's Front of the North 3 8%
Whig Party 8 22%

Who would you / will you vote for in the Scottish Parliament election?
SNP: 26%
Conservative Party: 16%
Labour Party: 20%
Liberal Democrats: 12%
Scottish Greens: 9%
Mispronounced Alba Party: 2%
Reform UK: 8%
Other: 8%

Seriously, that sour quote by Old Tyrannia is fucking hilarious! It made me giggle, which is not something an upstanding citizen of my age should do.

[Vassenor]

Aaaand the anti-lockdown people are claiming they're being treated like the Jews during the Holocaust again.

[Celritannia]

You know why that is? Because of fucking Tory cuts.
Which is why we need Federalisation, to stop the unequal distribution of wealth by Parliament.

It's economic forces that distribute wealth around a unitary country because there is no fiscal or local policy distortion going on. There is very little central government direction that has been going on for decades and what little that there has been generally does involve central government pointing generous deals for manufacturing to locate in various poorer areas or government bodies being located in such areas. Ever wondered why the DVLA is located in Swansea or the New Treasury office is going to Darlington? One of the major reasons is it's form of the government bringing employment to areas that need support because the private sector isn't strong enough.

Parliment and government do unequally distribute wealth, it's just they unequally distribute it to poorer areas. There isn't anything wrong with that but federalism would reduce the scope of the central government to do that and would leave certain areas unable to pay for stuff.

And yet, Federalism would at least make each region equal in someway.
Of course there would always be unequal areas, but the less power to Westminster is always necessary. Why do you wish to maintain a union of inequality?
The Tories have done nothing for the North, and will continue to ignore the north until devolution for all regions, and then leading to a full federal UK.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Aaaand the anti-lockdown people are claiming they're being treated like the Jews during the Holocaust again.

If i was jewish and i saw someone walking around like that with a fucking star of david yellow badge on i would fucking lose it.

[Vassenor]

Oh and #DefundTheBBC is trending again because apparently someone failed to glorify today's protests enough.

Typical rightist snowflake behaviour.

[Hurdergaryp]

Oh and #DefundTheBBC is trending again because apparently someone failed to glorify today's protests enough.

Typical rightist snowflake behaviour.

Isn't that just part of the Tory plot to degrade the BBC to an obedient lapdog, just as was done with the media in Turkey, Hungary, Poland and Russia?

[Mercatus]

I can't wait to see the epic debates that will occur in this thread, they will be legendary!

History Channel will devote a miniseries to them.

Sadly, while I was being sarcastic, history channel would waste their time doing that, like how they wasted time on Ancient Aliens.

I mean, I think it’s entertaining. But that’s just me.

[Dakini]

Aaaand the anti-lockdown people are claiming they're being treated like the Jews during the Holocaust again.

The UK lockdowns haven't been remotely bad. Those people are a bunch of whiners.

I moved to Romania last month. I have to write myself a permission slip to go to the fucking shop and I have to wear a mask outside instead of just indoors. In Scotland, even during the first lockdown I could go take a walk once a day and during the later ones I could go outside as much as I wanted as long as I was exercising. Here: nope. I get to stay indoors while the nice weather taunts me.

[The New California Republic]

“This thread is just a place for foreigners who hate Britain and self-hating British lefties to shit all over the UK.”
― Old Tyrannia

(Image)

This thread is for discussing UK Politics, whether it be Brexit, the government response to Coronavirus, or anything else politically related that crops up in the news. Please observe the forum rules when participating here. If you see someone breaking the rules then please report it in Moderation.

The last thread is here.

How Do You Feel About HS2?
Support 22 19%
Mildly Support 19 17%
Indifferent 12 11%
Mildly Oppose 12 11%
Oppose 16 14%
Does the "H" Stand for Hasselhoff? 32 28%

How Do You Feel About the Upcoming Departure From the EU?
Pleased 66 37%
Kinda Pleased 12 7%
Indifferent 23 13%
Kinda Sad 14 8%
Sad 33 19%
*Transmission Indecipherable Due to Being in a Bunker Filled With Memorabilia and Food From the EU* 29 16%

Is the UK Government Doing Enough to Stop the Spread of Coronavirus?
Yes 36 13%
Mostly 36 13%
Don't Know 25 9%
Barely 32 12%
No 74 28%
We Need to Bring Back WW2-Style Rationing so That Everyone Gets Equal and Guaranteed Access to Toilet Paper 64 24%

Should Dominic Cummings resign?
Yes 48 63%
No, but he should apologise for his error of judgement 7 9%
No, and no apology needed; he acted legally and responsibly 4 5%
Undecided 4 5%
Can I drive to Barnard Castle before I vote in the poll? 13 17%

Protesters Pulled Down a Statue of Slave Trader Edward Colston, Do You Agree With Their Actions?
Yes 75 43%
No 72 41%
Yes, as long as it is replaced with a statue of David Hasselhoff. 28 16%

Were the Pubs Allowed to Reopen Too Soon?
Yes 37 66%
No 10 18%
Don't Know 4 7%
Enact Prohibition 5 9%

Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?
Yes 56 67%
No 14 17%
No *vote amended by GRU* 13 16%

Will the UK Ever Rejoin the EU?
Yes 32 37%
No 55 63%

Have you downloaded an NHS test and trace app?
Yes 16 24%
No, but I'm not opposed to doing so 23 34%
No, and I refuse to as a matter of principle 16 24%
Irrelevant; I don't own a smartphone 13 19%

How likely is a UK trade deal with the EU before the end of the transition period?
A certainty 2 1%
Very likely 4 3%
Likely 16 11%
Too close to call 26 18%
Unlikely 43 30%
Very unlikely 14 10%
Isn't going to happen 37 26%

Are you happy with the provisions of the trade deal with the EU?
Completely 12 7%
Somewhat 37 22%
Indifferent 38 23%
Not really 33 20%
Absolutely not 46 28%

Will Sturgeon Survive?
Yes, totally vindicated 23 21%
No, the dirty secrets are all exposed and her position is untenable 10 9%
Very wounded, but yes she will survive 27 25%
Very wounded, and leave soon but not immediately 9 8%
*Sips whisky, just revelling in the mess* 28 25%
Only if the Caspian Sea countries stop overfishing for caviar 13 12%

UK General Election 2021: who will you vote for? (April Fools poll)
Alba But Pronounced Properly Party 2 6%
Birthday Party 4 11%
Communist Party of Scotland 3 8%
CUK 1 3%
Monster Raving Loony Party 11 31%
REFUK 0 No votes
The Hasselhoff Party 3 8%
The Northern People's Front 1 3%
The People's Front of the North 3 8%
Whig Party 8 22%

Who would you / will you vote for in the Scottish Parliament election?
SNP: 26%
Conservative Party: 16%
Labour Party: 20%
Liberal Democrats: 12%
Scottish Greens: 9%
Mispronounced Alba Party: 2%
Reform UK: 8%
Other: 8%

Seriously, that sour quote by Old Tyrannia is fucking hilarious! It made me giggle, which is not something an upstanding citizen of my age should do.

Yes it's good that it got preserved from the last thread OP.

[The Huskar Social Union]

"Alastair Campbell - “Peter Stefanovic’s video has had 12 million views. Every day he asks BBC why will you not play these clips of Johnson in Parliament lying at dispatch box. PM’s are meant to resign if they lie at dispatch box”

BBC interviewer “Do people care?” "

Just thought this was amusing. Although i dont think PM's are technically meant to resign if they lie at the dispatch box.

[The Nihilistic view]

It's economic forces that distribute wealth around a unitary country because there is no fiscal or local policy distortion going on. There is very little central government direction that has been going on for decades and what little that there has been generally does involve central government pointing generous deals for manufacturing to locate in various poorer areas or government bodies being located in such areas. Ever wondered why the DVLA is located in Swansea or the New Treasury office is going to Darlington? One of the major reasons is it's form of the government bringing employment to areas that need support because the private sector isn't strong enough.

Parliment and government do unequally distribute wealth, it's just they unequally distribute it to poorer areas. There isn't anything wrong with that but federalism would reduce the scope of the central government to do that and would leave certain areas unable to pay for stuff.

And yet, Federalism would at least make each region equal in someway.
Of course there would always be unequal areas, but the less power to Westminster is always necessary. Why do you wish to maintain a union of inequality?
The Tories have done nothing for the North, and will continue to ignore the north until devolution for all regions, and then leading to a full federal UK.

Because we fund the North down here. If you take away this liability on me the North has to fund itself. It can't do that, it's not that difficult to grasp.

People like myself need to fund the North and that's ok I'm not sure why you think taking that burden off me to some degree is good for the North. Money doesn't spring out of the ground, it comes from London (it's general vicinity) and the South East.

[The Nihilistic view]

"Alastair Campbell - “Peter Stefanovic’s video has had 12 million views. Every day he asks BBC why will you not play these clips of Johnson in Parliament lying at dispatch box. PM’s are meant to resign if they lie at dispatch box”

BBC interviewer “Do people care?” "

Just thought this was amusing. Although i dont think PM's are technically meant to resign if they lie at the dispatch box.

That does amuse me, the guy that started this whole degeneration of truth in government is complaining about the ball he set rolling 25 years ago.

[Philjia]

One thing being decided at the local elections is whether Sheffield should replace it's cabinet system for the council executive with a committee system, where each cabinet position would instead be represented by a cross party committee.

In other news, I'm going out canvassing for the Greens today.

What I have learned from going out today:
- The key issues in our ward are the amount of dog shit everywhere and putting a 20mph speed limit on the road the goes past my house.
- Old people really like election canvassers.
- A lot of people in the village have incorrectly fitted garden gates.
- Letterboxes with heavy springs are the devil's work.

[The Nihilistic view]

On further reflection the problem with the origional video in question is it isn't strictly truthful in some cases either. For example it's all about statistical context, Johnson isn't wrong to say the increase in NHS spending is £x, that isn't a lie. Working out a different metric and then trying to claim that's the one true metric is more shady than just quoting a figure. Sure provide your alternative statistics but claiming the numerical truth is actually a lie is just as bad misinformation as anything that Johnson has been accused of in the video.

I knew off the top of my head a couple of the supposed lies were actually just the use of different statistical measures so it's equally hypocritical and intellectually dishonest to call such things lies. That's the thing with statistics sometimes I can say something one way to sound the best for me and you could say it another way so it does not sound as good. Nobody is lying, both statistics are the truth and both of us are telling the truth. It's true that NHS spending will increase by £34bn just as it's true to say in real terms the increase will be £23bn.

[Dresderstan]

"Alastair Campbell - “Peter Stefanovic’s video has had 12 million views. Every day he asks BBC why will you not play these clips of Johnson in Parliament lying at dispatch box. PM’s are meant to resign if they lie at dispatch box”

BBC interviewer “Do people care?” "

Just thought this was amusing. Although i dont think PM's are technically meant to resign if they lie at the dispatch box.

That does amuse me, the guy that started this whole degeneration of truth in government is complaining about the ball he set rolling 25 years ago.

The days of the spin doctors are over.

[Celritannia]

And yet, Federalism would at least make each region equal in someway.
Of course there would always be unequal areas, but the less power to Westminster is always necessary. Why do you wish to maintain a union of inequality?
The Tories have done nothing for the North, and will continue to ignore the north until devolution for all regions, and then leading to a full federal UK.

Because we fund the North down here. If you take away this liability on me the North has to fund itself. It can't do that, it's not that difficult to grasp.

People like myself need to fund the North and that's ok I'm not sure why you think taking that burden off me to some degree is good for the North. Money doesn't spring out of the ground, it comes from London (it's general vicinity) and the South East.

And yet all the power is in the South because the main political power down there. It's that simple. Devolution and federalisation is necessary to remove the control of Westminster, just like what Scotland and Wales have done.

[Celritannia]

"Alastair Campbell - “Peter Stefanovic’s video has had 12 million views. Every day he asks BBC why will you not play these clips of Johnson in Parliament lying at dispatch box. PM’s are meant to resign if they lie at dispatch box”

BBC interviewer “Do people care?” "

Just thought this was amusing. Although i dont think PM's are technically meant to resign if they lie at the dispatch box.

That does amuse me, the guy that started this whole degeneration of truth in government is complaining about the ball he set rolling 25 years ago.

So does this change that Johnson should resign?

[Ifreann]

Look I'm not really for all this 'break the UK up further' business, but if it ends with me commanding a motte and bailey and my own personal Barony then I might have to sign up.

I would ask for my ancestral lands back, but the whole area is quite rough now, so I don't want to become a slum lord overnight.

If any of you get around to it, I'd like my ancestral land back.


My ancestral lands are Normandy, btw.

---

"Alastair Campbell - “Peter Stefanovic’s video has had 12 million views. Every day he asks BBC why will you not play these clips of Johnson in Parliament lying at dispatch box. PM’s are meant to resign if they lie at dispatch box”

BBC interviewer “Do people care?” "

Just thought this was amusing. Although i dont think PM's are technically meant to resign if they lie at the dispatch box.

Maybe if they're not Tories.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Because we fund the North down here. If you take away this liability on me the North has to fund itself. It can't do that, it's not that difficult to grasp.

People like myself need to fund the North and that's ok I'm not sure why you think taking that burden off me to some degree is good for the North. Money doesn't spring out of the ground, it comes from London (it's general vicinity) and the South East.

And yet all the power is in the South because the main political power down there. It's that simple. Devolution and federalisation is necessary to remove the control of Westminster, just like what Scotland and Wales have done.

What we could do to combat the North/South divide is have multiple capitals like South Africa. London as a ceremonial capital, Birmingham as administrative capital with parliament and civil service, and Manchester as the judicial capital. That would spread some spending about. Birmingham would be a lot easier to travel to from their constituencies for MPs.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Liz Truss saying that Boris paid for the renovation of his flat himself, but then neither confirming or denying a donor might have given him the cash first just deepens the problems for Johnson. Dyson immediately springs to my mind.

[Dakini]

One thing being decided at the local elections is whether Sheffield should replace it's cabinet system for the council executive with a committee system, where each cabinet position would instead be represented by a cross party committee.

In other news, I'm going out canvassing for the Greens today.

What I have learned from going out today:
- The key issues in our ward are the amount of dog shit everywhere and putting a 20mph speed limit on the road the goes past my house.
- Old people really like election canvassers.
- A lot of people in the village have incorrectly fitted garden gates.
- Letterboxes with heavy springs are the devil's work.

I suspect that the dog shit issue is an issue all over the UK, tbh. I don't know why dog owners think that the dog poop fairy will clean up after them.

[The Nihilistic view]

And yet all the power is in the South because the main political power down there. It's that simple. Devolution and federalisation is necessary to remove the control of Westminster, just like what Scotland and Wales have done.

What we could do to combat the North/South divide is have multiple capitals like South Africa. London as a ceremonial capital, Birmingham as administrative capital with parliament and civil service, and Manchester as the judicial capital. That would spread some spending about. Birmingham would be a lot easier to travel to from their constituencies for MPs.

The problem is still far bigger than spread a few offices around. If you give regions certain responsibilities some of them just couldn't pay for it. You can't make money that is in London appear in Accrington.

So those deprived areas would find themselves in a fiscal straight jacket with very likely substantially less money than now. So what I'm gathering is that spending cuts are bad apart from when it's in the name of a federalised UK. Then it's still the fault of Tory cuts even though Tories wouldn't be running those regions and they wouldn't have supported federalism.