Scifi TV Discussion Thread

[Vassenor]

Yes, actually.

they're all bilge, what difference does it make

Actually being able to verify the claim being made.

Like there's roughly 100 hits for "rewritten" on Memory Alpha. None of them are on Discovery episode pages.

[New haven america]

they're all bilge, what difference does it make

Actually being able to verify the claim being made.

Like there's roughly 100 hits for "rewritten" on Memory Alpha. None of them are on Discovery episode pages.

It wasn't "Rewritten", it was Written. The script did not exist until 12 hours before the episode was filmed

And IIRC, STD's s2 finale or STP's s1 finale.

[Tarsonis]

Actually being able to verify the claim being made.

Like there's roughly 100 hits for "rewritten" on Memory Alpha. None of them are on Discovery episode pages.

It wasn't "Rewritten", it was Written. The script did not exist until 12 hours before the episode was filmed

And IIRC, STD's s2 finale or STP's s1 finale.

You're gonna have to do better than that

[Twilight Imperium]

It wasn't "Rewritten", it was Written. The script did not exist until 12 hours before the episode was filmed

And IIRC, STD's s2 finale or STP's s1 finale.

You're gonna have to do better than that

I didn't find anything either, fwiw.

[Stellar Colonies]

Star Trek Universe TV Head Alex Kurtzman Says Line Between Movies And Television Is “Gone” (TrekMovie)

Last week’s big news that Paramount Pictures had put a Star Trek movie on the calendar for the summer of 2023 has fans buzzing and wondering if it will be connected to all the Star Trek TV happening on Paramount+. Now the man in charge of all those TV shows is weighing in on the new reality of modern franchises.

Kurtzman on the line between movies and TV

Today Variety has an extensive cover story feature on “How Big IP Is Driving the Streaming Wars.” The article looks at how the media landscape has changed in recent years “obliterating the traditional silos between film and television.” It cites many examples from different media companies, holding out how Disney is handling the Marvel and Star Wars franchises as the gold standard.

For Trekkies, the article examines how ViacomCBS is adapting to this new world. Alex Kurtzman, who has been heading up ViacomCBS efforts to build out the Star Trek Universe on TV, had this to say about the state of things:

“I think vertical alignment has made it so that it’s impossible not to accept the reality that the line between movies and television is gone. It doesn’t mean that you can’t have a feature that is separate from television. But if they aren’t connected in some way, then you’re basically running two universes parallel as opposed to interconnected, and I think that those messages could potentially cancel each other out.”

The last three Star Trek feature films – the first of which was co-written by Kurtzman – set up their own “Kelvin” Star Trek universe through the narrative of time travel and parallel universes. This allowed those films to have their own identity and stand apart from previous films and television shows set in the “Prime” universe. However, these films were made in a period when there weren’t any Star Trek television shows in production — and while Paramount Pictures and CBS (who produce Trek television) were part of separate media companies. Paramount and Viacom have now re-merged with CBS, with the new ViacomCBS currently producing five Trek television series (three of which are live-action) for the Paramount+ streaming service.

While the Star Trek TV shows and films have primarily occupied actual parallel universes in the last decade or so, there have been connections. For example, the entire Romulan refugee storyline featured in Star Trek: Picard season one is based on the destruction of Romulus plotline from the 2009 Star Trek movie. Kurtzman has also strived to have the Star Trek Universe shows match the level of production design seen in the recent Trek features, including moving to a widescreen cinematical style.

Kurtzman’s comment to Variety about the media landscape of the 2020s could indicate more connectedness to come.

Star Trek showrunners coordinating

While the connection between future Star Trek films and television shows is still uncertain, Kurtzman did give details on how the various Star Trek shows have started working closer together. From the Variety report:

"Kurtzman says those who oversee the various “Star Trek” properties have begun strategizing to an even greater degree within ViacomCBS in the past year, with the launch of a monthly showrunners’ meeting. It allows everyone to see what parts of the “Star Trek” universe are being utilized on other shows.

“We make sure that those showrunners are coordinating so that they’re not stepping on each other’s toes,” he says."

We have already seen the early fruits of this coordination between Star Trek: Discovery, Lower Decks, and Picard with some elements of continuity. With more shows coming it makes even more sense to have these creatives talking to each other on a regular basis.

[Tarsonis]

Disco 4 trailer dropped. Dear God those uniforms bother me. They would look perfect, but the different length lapels make it look like they all missed a button.

[The Orion Islands]

Alright, any Original Series episodes that would have been better as two-parters?
The Enterprise Incident and The Paradise Syndrome leap to mind. Both good episodes, even if seasons one and two were universally better, but the plots were a bit rushed in hindsight. Several elements of both episodes could have used at least a few more lines.

[The Orion Islands]

Alright, any Original Series episodes that would have been better as two-parters?
The Enterprise Incident and The Paradise Syndrome leap to mind. Both good episodes, even if seasons one and two were universally better, but the plots were a bit rushed in hindsight. Several elements of both episodes could have used at least a few more lines.

And the third season isn’t entirely the fault of the producers and writers, NBC and Paramount were both looking for excuses to kill the show, so they set the show up to fail.

[Tarsonis]

oh my stars, it's actually happening



https://news.yahoo.com/levar-burton-ove ... 47452.html

More than 246,000 people had signed a petition to make Burton the next host.

[Vassenor]

oh my stars, it's actually happening



https://news.yahoo.com/levar-burton-ove ... 47452.html

More than 246,000 people had signed a petition to make Burton the next host.

NO BRAKES ON THE HAPPENING TRAIN

[Tarsonis]

UGHHH LDS season 2 doesn't drop until August. I need to circle a singularity for a bit.

[Stellar Colonies]

The theme from DSC reminds me of the Tyson Cosmos theme. They sound a little different to me, but it's probably because the images during each of their intros look similar, which gives me the association even if I'm only listening to them.

[Stellar Colonies]

Marty

Tilly

[Crysuko]

The theme from DSC reminds me of the Tyson Cosmos theme. They sound a little different to me, but it's probably because the images during each of their intros look similar, which gives me the association even if I'm only listening to them.

it's invocative of an advert for car insurance

[Starblaydia]

The theme from DSC reminds me of the Tyson Cosmos theme. They sound a little different to me, but it's probably because the images during each of their intros look similar, which gives me the association even if I'm only listening to them.

it's invocative of an advert for car insurance

DSC's intro feels to me like it suffer from being designed for a streaming platform that assumes everyone will hit 'Skip Intro' after the first time they see it. imho, abstract x-ray spacey-thingies with a generic strings tune that doesn't give much drama or tension to it kinda sums up the show, unfortunately.

[Ameriganastan]

it's invocative of an advert for car insurance

DSC's intro feels to me like it suffer from being designed for a streaming platform that assumes everyone will hit 'Skip Intro' after the first time they see it. imho, abstract x-ray spacey-thingies with a generic strings tune that doesn't give much drama or tension to it kinda sums up the show, unfortunately.

It is a little disheartening that a crappy parody show like Lower Decks has a more Star Trek-y theme than an actual Star Trek show.

[Starblaydia]

DSC's intro feels to me like it suffer from being designed for a streaming platform that assumes everyone will hit 'Skip Intro' after the first time they see it. imho, abstract x-ray spacey-thingies with a generic strings tune that doesn't give much drama or tension to it kinda sums up the show, unfortunately.

It is a little disheartening that a crappy parody show like Lower Decks has a more Star Trek-y theme than an actual Star Trek show.

One is done by obvious hardcore Star Trek fans who have been allowed to run riot in the canon-wardrobe, as a thank you and a fan squee to generations of the show, and the other is about new audiences in bold new non-standard-Trek directions.

I thought I'd hate Lower Decks, but ended up loving it.

[Ameriganastan]

It is a little disheartening that a crappy parody show like Lower Decks has a more Star Trek-y theme than an actual Star Trek show.

One is done by obvious hardcore Star Trek fans who have been allowed to run riot in the canon-wardrobe, as a thank you and a fan squee to generations of the show, and the other is about new audiences in bold new non-standard-Trek directions.

I thought I'd hate Lower Decks, but ended up loving it.

I know I'd hate it. And I keep hoping to hear it's been cancelled...along with STD and Picard. I miss when Star Trek didn't suck. I need The Orville back already. Only decent Star Trek show currently running.

[Starblaydia]

One is done by obvious hardcore Star Trek fans who have been allowed to run riot in the canon-wardrobe, as a thank you and a fan squee to generations of the show, and the other is about new audiences in bold new non-standard-Trek directions.

I thought I'd hate Lower Decks, but ended up loving it.

I know I'd hate it.

That's what I thought based on the trailers: another dumb teen humour cartoon with Trek branding. Why not give it 2 episodes and make an informed opinion of hatred or otherwise - what have you got to loose other than 40 or so minutes?

I miss when Star Trek didn't suck.

So, outside of a bunch of problematic TOS episodes, a few from TAS, the first season or two of TNG until Riker grows the beard, DS9 until Sisko grows his beard, Voyager until Seven appears (and even then it's still mostly terrible), all of Enterprise, all of Picard, most of Discovery, and literally half of the 13 movies... I'm sure glad Star Trek didn't use to suck.

[New haven america]

I know I'd hate it.

1. That's what I thought based on the trailers: another dumb teen humour cartoon with Trek branding. Why not give it 2 episodes and make an informed opinion of hatred or otherwise - what have you got to loose other than 40 or so minutes?

I miss when Star Trek didn't suck.

So, outside of a bunch of problematic TOS episodes, a few from TAS, the first season or two of TNG until Riker grows the beard, DS9 until Sisko grows his beard, Voyager until Seven appears (and even then it's still mostly terrible), all of Enterprise, all of Picard, most of Discovery, and literally half of the 13 movies... I'm sure glad Star Trek didn't use to suck.

What's weird is that Ameri claimed to love ST works that spit on the ideals of ST on the whole (Mostly based off of not understand those ideas and not understanding the messages of some episodes) so he should be eating up Kurtz Trek.

Though, you yourself have strange taste on what is and isn't good ST. All of Ent. sucks? This isn't the early 2000's, s3 and s4 have already aired, let it go~

Also, Early Voy is comparable to later Voy in quality, maybe even better in some cases. And DS9 had a pretty strong later 1st season and 2nd season. (Duet in this, for example)

[Ameriganastan]

That's what I thought based on the trailers: another dumb teen humour cartoon with Trek branding. Why not give it 2 episodes and make an informed opinion of hatred or otherwise - what have you got to loose other than 40 or so minutes?

40 or so minutes I could spend doing something I actually enjoy for one. Besides, I'm already watching the crappy Clone Wars cartoon to prove a point. I don't have the motivation to watch two crappy cartoons at once to prove a point.

So, outside of a bunch of problematic TOS episodes, a few from TAS,

Never watched either...yes, I've never watched TOS. Too hokey for my tastes.

the first season or two of TNG until Riker grows the beard,

Hey, there's a small spattering of good episodes even in crappy early TNG...not a lot. But they're there.

DS9 until Sisko grows his beard,

Now this is just emphatically wrong. Sisko didn't grow the goatee until late season 3. And there were a ton of good episodes before then.

Voyager until Seven appears (and even then it's still mostly terrible), all of Enterprise,

Yeah, Voyager is my least favorite and I've never seen Enterprise. So I don't really wanna bother defending them.

and literally half of the 13 movies...

First off, I don't think you can half an odd number. And even then, that's a little high. I mean I think the only TOS movies that suck are 1 and 5. The first two TNG movies are good. And I like all the Abrams movies.

[Starblaydia]

Though, you yourself have strange taste on what is and isn't good ST. All of Ent. sucks? This isn't the early 2000's, s3 and s4 have already aired, let it go~

Also, Early Voy is comparable to later Voy in quality, maybe even better in some cases. And DS9 had a pretty strong later 1st season and 2nd season. (Duet in this, for example)

OK, so that list was exaggerated slightly for effect. There are plenty of good early TNG, VOY and DS9 episodes. I'll confess I never made it past the first season of Enterprise, though I have dipped back in a few times later to some of the Mirror Universe episodes and generally enjoyed those.

Discovery has had it's moments in the first couple of seasons, but Red Angel reveal and the subsequent season have turned me right off it. I'll certainly check out Season 4, but not with any great urgency. Picard, however, was largely a disaster from start to finish and I watched it out of a morbid curiosity as to how it got made and where they were actually going with it.

My main problem with ENT and VOY is that I either didn't like or didn't connect with pretty much any of the characters. A lot of Voyager's story is on the good side, true, but when having to watch Kim, Paris, Torres, Chakotay, Neelix and Janeway interact all episode, they totally put me off. Seven and the Doctor becoming more of the focus of the show really helped it, imho.

For the movies, I think there's a general consensus that from TOS, 1, 3 and 5 were "bad", while 2, 4 and 6 were "good". From TNG I'd say Generations and First Contact were pretty good, with Insurrection being a drawn-out but decent TV episode, and Nemesis being pretty awful. For the new series, the reboot was ok, Into Darkness was terrible and Beyond is probably my favourite of the whole 13-film franchise, though that may just be recency bias talking.

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

Recently been thinking about the "Vulcan has no moon" fiasco and I think I have a pretty decent explanation to tie everything together. Stop me if you've heard this before: Vulcan is part of a planet system.

Discounting Disco S3 of which something was mentioned about Vulcan's moons, I don't know, my theory is that Vulcan is part of a planet system composed of four planets: Vulcan proper, a gas giant, a small rocky planet (both of which are visible in the Motion Picture), and Delta Vega (the planet from which Spock Prime watched Vulcan's destruction in 09). I say planet system specifically and not that Vulcan is a moon of the aforementioned gas giant because said gas giant makes very few appearances, suggesting an elliptical orbit which takes Vulcan far from that planet. To my knowledge, that massive gas giant is never visible in ENT, TOS, or in 09. This doesn't mean it's not present (though I'm assuming that was the production consensus), only that Vulcan's orbit takes it far enough away from the giant to where it doesn't dominate the sky the way it does in TMP. If Vulcan were a moon in close orbit to this giant, it would have been seen before. However, a large body is seen in the sky during "Yesteryear" from TAS. I'm going to hedge a bet and say this is our elusive gas giant, as it being a rocky planet should, I think, be impossible. If it were a rocky planet at such proximity, like the one seen in TMP, I would think tidal forces between the two would render Vulcan uninhabitable (even beyond its current desert state). Yesteryear's time travel shenanigans take place in the late 2230s, roughly in tandem with the timeline JJ presents in 09, and as far as I know, the gas giant is never visible during the run of TOS, so this is its last appearance we have to go on before TMP.

To my knowledge, no planets are visible in 09's space jump scene above Vulcan, which suggests again that Vulcan is somewhere near its orbital maximum away from the gas giant. What is seen in 09 is Delta Vega, the planet from which Spock Prime watches the demise of Vulcan. Now, here the scale is obviously fucked, but the size of Vulcan in the sky of Delta Vega suggests that either Vulcan is very large and distant, or small and close. Since Kirk and McCoy weren't crushed into puddles of goo during "Amok Time", Vulcan should be relatively close to Earth's size, meaning Delta Vega and Vulcan are hilariously close. I interpret this as a symptom of an extreme elliptical orbit, where Vulcan swings by Delta Vega at such close range, it seems massive in its snowy sky. I also choose to believe that in 09, Nero specifically waits for Delta Vega to be close to Vulcan so Spock Prime can witness the destruction of Vulcan, as Spock Prime's flashback-mind-meld with Kirk implies that at least some time passed between Spock emerging from the singularity and getting captured by Nero and the destruction of Vulcan.

Basically this is what I roughly imagine it looks like (not to scale, bad physics).

The unnamed rocky planet seen in TMP is close enough to the gas giant to where I imagine it is the giant's own satellite. Delta Vega obviously can't be the rocky planet, since we see Delta Vega is a bluish ice-covered planet in 09, plus Vega doesn't have the gas giant in sight. With Vulcan and Delta Vega so close together in the late 2250s, this suggests that the gas giant is far enough away from the two along its orbit to where the camera doesn't catch sight of it easily.

Now, I'm kind of a dumbass, so I might have missed some information in ENT which throws this whole thing off. As Spock mentions, "we embrace technicality", so while the planet Vulcan doesn't technically have its own moons, I imagine it to be a part of some doohickey like what I drew above. Again, I don't know what Disco S3 says and I don't care.

[Tarsonis]

Recently been thinking about the "Vulcan has no moon" fiasco and I think I have a pretty decent explanation to tie everything together. Stop me if you've heard this before: Vulcan is part of a planet system.

Discounting Disco S3 of which something was mentioned about Vulcan's moons, I don't know, my theory is that Vulcan is part of a planet system composed of four planets: Vulcan proper, a gas giant, a small rocky planet (both of which are visible in the Motion Picture), and Delta Vega (the planet from which Spock Prime watched Vulcan's destruction in 09). I say planet system specifically and not that Vulcan is a moon of the aforementioned gas giant because said gas giant makes very few appearances, suggesting an elliptical orbit which takes Vulcan far from that planet. To my knowledge, that massive gas giant is never visible in ENT, TOS, or in 09. This doesn't mean it's not present (though I'm assuming that was the production consensus), only that Vulcan's orbit takes it far enough away from the giant to where it doesn't dominate the sky the way it does in TMP. If Vulcan were a moon in close orbit to this giant, it would have been seen before. However, a large body is seen in the sky during "Yesteryear" from TAS. I'm going to hedge a bet and say this is our elusive gas giant, as it being a rocky planet should, I think, be impossible. If it were a rocky planet at such proximity, like the one seen in TMP, I would think tidal forces between the two would render Vulcan uninhabitable (even beyond its current desert state). Yesteryear's time travel shenanigans take place in the late 2230s, roughly in tandem with the timeline JJ presents in 09, and as far as I know, the gas giant is never visible during the run of TOS, so this is its last appearance we have to go on before TMP.

To my knowledge, no planets are visible in 09's space jump scene above Vulcan, which suggests again that Vulcan is somewhere near its orbital maximum away from the gas giant. What is seen in 09 is Delta Vega, the planet from which Spock Prime watches the demise of Vulcan. Now, here the scale is obviously fucked, but the size of Vulcan in the sky of Delta Vega suggests that either Vulcan is very large and distant, or small and close. Since Kirk and McCoy weren't crushed into puddles of goo during "Amok Time", Vulcan should be relatively close to Earth's size, meaning Delta Vega and Vulcan are hilariously close. I interpret this as a symptom of an extreme elliptical orbit, where Vulcan swings by Delta Vega at such close range, it seems massive in its snowy sky. I also choose to believe that in 09, Nero specifically waits for Delta Vega to be close to Vulcan so Spock Prime can witness the destruction of Vulcan, as Spock Prime's flashback-mind-meld with Kirk implies that at least some time passed between Spock emerging from the singularity and getting captured by Nero and the destruction of Vulcan.

Basically this is what I roughly imagine it looks like (not to scale, bad physics).

(Image)

The unnamed rocky planet seen in TMP is close enough to the gas giant to where I imagine it is the giant's own satellite. Delta Vega obviously can't be the rocky planet, since we see Delta Vega is a bluish ice-covered planet in 09, plus Vega doesn't have the gas giant in sight. With Vulcan and Delta Vega so close together in the late 2250s, this suggests that the gas giant is far enough away from the two along its orbit to where the camera doesn't catch sight of it easily.

Now, I'm kind of a dumbass, so I might have missed some information in ENT which throws this whole thing off. As Spock mentions, "we embrace technicality", so while the planet Vulcan doesn't technically have its own moons, I imagine it to be a part of some doohickey like what I drew above. Again, I don't know what Disco S3 says and I don't care.

Technically correct is the beat kind of correct

[La Paz de Los Ricos]

Though, you yourself have strange taste on what is and isn't good ST. All of Ent. sucks? This isn't the early 2000's, s3 and s4 have already aired, let it go~

Also, Early Voy is comparable to later Voy in quality, maybe even better in some cases. And DS9 had a pretty strong later 1st season and 2nd season. (Duet in this, for example)

OK, so that list was exaggerated slightly for effect. There are plenty of good early TNG, VOY and DS9 episodes. I'll confess I never made it past the first season of Enterprise, though I have dipped back in a few times later to some of the Mirror Universe episodes and generally enjoyed those.

Discovery has had it's moments in the first couple of seasons, but Red Angel reveal and the subsequent season have turned me right off it. I'll certainly check out Season 4, but not with any great urgency. Picard, however, was largely a disaster from start to finish and I watched it out of a morbid curiosity as to how it got made and where they were actually going with it.

My main problem with ENT and VOY is that I either didn't like or didn't connect with pretty much any of the characters. A lot of Voyager's story is on the good side, true, but when having to watch Kim, Paris, Torres, Chakotay, Neelix and Janeway interact all episode, they totally put me off. Seven and the Doctor becoming more of the focus of the show really helped it, imho.

For the movies, I think there's a general consensus that from TOS, 1, 3 and 5 were "bad", while 2, 4 and 6 were "good". From TNG I'd say Generations and First Contact were pretty good, with Insurrection being a drawn-out but decent TV episode, and Nemesis being pretty awful. For the new series, the reboot was ok, Into Darkness was terrible and Beyond is probably my favourite of the whole 13-film franchise, though that may just be recency bias talking.

When it comes to Voyager, even though I love the show to death, I am sort of leaning more to the "lots of wasted potential" camp. I recently rewatched "Prophecy" ("rewatched" meaning I saw the first half and then had to leave to do something and didn't finish it) and all I could think of afterwards is "why didn't they do this before?" Voyager running into a Klingon generational ship and then having a bunch of rowdy Klingons join the crew would have been awesome... in season two! Voyager accumulating more members to her crew, and maybe a few companion ships, would've been neat to see. One opinion I will staunchly stand by, however, is Voyager should have not just been "Year of Hell" for 7 seasons, as some have said. I mean, a Trek show where you see your heroes slowly whittled down, picked off by repeated enemy attacks, burned, ravaged, starved, and angry would've been... very bad. DS9 did it intelligently, but it knew enough not to just be "dark Trek" for 7 seasons. That would have gone against the Trek spirit and just made for some depressing TV.

One idea I've been toying around with and sort of thinking about is Voyager being thrown slightly closer to the Gamma Quadrant, just a tiny bit, but just enough to where Janeway decides trying to make it to the Bajoran wormhole and use it to cross back home to the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion War erupts as per the events of DS9, and eventually Voyager makes it into Dominion Space. Weyoun, made aware of the entrance of a Federation ship, decides to use Janeway to his advantage. The Dominion escort Voyager to the wormhole, assuring Janeway that the Dominion and the Federation are at peace. Once the wormhole is in reach, the Dominion captures Voyager and give Janeway an ultimatum: "give us technical information and we'll let you cross, refuse and be destroyed". Then the finale is all the character arcs being resolved, and Janeway needing to make the choice between her ship and crew, and the people of the Federation.

Of course the ultimatum would need to be delivered by a Weyoun, naturally.

Anyways, regarding the movies, TMP and Beyond are tied for best in my book (their soundtracks play a huge role in this, but the films themselves are just solid overall). All of the original films, with the exception of V, were great (V had some good character and comedy moments, religion handled poorly). Generations was very weak time-travel wise, Kirk was underused, Enterprise was unnecessarily wasted. First Contact was great except for the part where humanity couldn't save itself for shit and needed future people to basically do most of the heavy lifting, Insurrection and Nemesis were eh. Kelvin Timeline is all awesome, don't @ me.

Technically correct is the beat kind of correct

Pointy-eared...