US Anti-Police Protests and Riots Thread III

[Galloism]

This happened weeks ago and the Chicago PD described the interaction 100% differently than the newly released footage shows it. I anticipate more protests in the Upper Midwest.

I'm a bit on the fence about this one for the same reason I'm on the fence about Tamir Rice. I do think a person with a firearm carries an implicit threat, especially when there's reports that gunshots have already been fired. Judging by what CNN reported, it's possible the officer, Eric Stillman, thought Adam Toledo still had the pistol in his hand. I'm not certain how fair it is to argue that force was disproportionate with the benefit of hindsight, especially when less than a second passed between the pistol being seen in Toledo's hand and him dropping it.

The video, according to police, shows a gun in Toledo's right hand as he nears an open area of fence next to an empty lot. Toledo turns to his left, toward the officer, and what police say is the gun disappears behind his right side. Toledo begins to raise his hands as he's facing the officer when the officer fires his weapon.

From the time police said the gun was first visible on body-worn camera footage in Toledo's hand, to the time the officer fired his weapon, was eight tenths of a second. In that period of time, his right arm disappears behind the fence before he begins to raise both hands.

That said, implicit racial biases may play a role in incidents like those that led to the killing of Tamir Rice and Adam Toledo. From the article on the study...

The study also involved 264 mostly white, female undergraduate students from large public U.S. universities. In one experiment, students rated the innocence of people ranging from infants to 25-year-olds who were black, white or an unidentified race. The students judged children up to 9 years old as equally innocent regardless of race, but considered black children significantly less innocent than other children in every age group beginning at age 10, the researchers found.

The students were also shown photographs alongside descriptions of various crimes and asked to assess the age and innocence of white, black or Latino boys ages 10 to 17. The students overestimated the age of blacks by an average of 4.5 years and found them more culpable than whites or Latinos, particularly when the boys were matched with serious crimes, the study found. Researchers used questionnaires to assess the participants’ prejudice and dehumanization of blacks. They found that participants who implicitly associated blacks with apes thought the black children were older and less innocent.

In another experiment, students first viewed either a photo of an ape or a large cat and then rated black and white youngsters in terms of perceived innocence and need for protection as children. Those who looked at the ape photo gave black children lower ratings and estimated that black children were significantly older than their actual ages, particularly if the child had been accused of a felony rather than a misdemeanor.

“The evidence shows that perceptions of the essential nature of children can be affected by race, and for black children, this can mean they lose the protection afforded by assumed childhood innocence well before they become adults,” said co-author Matthew Jackson, PhD, also of UCLA. “With the average age overestimation for black boys exceeding four-and-a-half years, in some cases, black children may be viewed as adults when they are just 13 years old.”

Side thing, they should have shown black/white girls too, to see how that circle came all the way out.

[Odreria]

Yes the institutions are racist by design. Have you not seen the stats on incarceration in America? And I frankly don't care if you doubt I'm a person of color. Some of the people on this thread have actually spoken to me and know who I am. What I do care about is how you don't actually care about this issue. You just want to feel safe. You're fine violating peoples rights if you can feel secure in the end. That's why you wanted curfew violators arrested, right? You can talk to me about safety when you try and understand how unsafe some people such as myself feel around the police you admire.

These institutions need reform, but without them, you’re more likely to be killed by someone. If we it your way, we would end like like El Salvador or Somalia. No functional government isn’t going to give you safety.

No you're doing it wrong, you didn't claim we would be Venezuela

[Fahran]

Side thing, they should have shown black/white girls too, to see how that circle came all the way out.

Oddly enough, we do have studies on that too and black girls seem to be perceived as needing less protection and nurturing, as being more adult, and as being more knowledgeable about sexual topics beginning at an even younger age that black boys. My previous study suggested that disparities began to emerge between perceptions of white and black boys around 14 or 15. For black girls, this begins as early as 5 and peaks around 10 to 15.

Across all age ranges, participants viewed Black girls collectively as more adult than white girls. Responses revealed, in particular, that participants perceived Black girls as needing less protection and nurturing than white girls, and that Black girls were perceived to know more about adult topics and are more knowledgeable about sex than their white peers. The most significant differences were found in the age brackets that encompass mid-childhood and early adolescence—ages 5–9 and 10–14— and continued to a lesser degree in the 15- to 19-year-old age bracket. No statistically significant differences were found in the age group 0–4. That is, beginning as early as 5 years of age, Black girls were more likely to be viewed as behaving and seeming older than their stated age; more knowledgeable about adult topics, including sex; and more likely to take on adult roles and responsibilities than what would have been expected for their age.

These results suggest that Black girls are viewed as more adult than their white peers at almost all stages of childhood, beginning most significantly
at the age of 5, peaking during the ages of 10 to 14, and continuing during the ages of 15 to 19. In essence, adults appear to place distinct views and expectations on Black girls that characterize them as developmentally older than their white peers, especially in mid-childhood and early adolescence— critical periods for healthy identity development. The significance of this result lies in the potential for adultification to act as a contributing cause of the demonstrated harsher treatment of Black girls when compared to white girls of the same age. Simply put, if authorities in public systems view Black girls as less innocent, less needing of protection, and generally more like adults, it appears likely that they would also view Black girls as more culpable for their actions and, on that basis, punish them more harshly despite their status as children. Thus, adultification may serve as a contributing cause of the disproportionality in school discipline outcomes, harsher treatment by law enforcement, and the differentiated exercise of discretion by officials across the spectrum of the juvenile justice system.

That said, boys and men are likely perceived as more dangerous, both by police and the general public, than girls and women.

Source

[Galloism]

Side thing, they should have shown black/white girls too, to see how that circle came all the way out.

Oddly enough, we do have studies on that too and black girls seem to be perceived as needing less protection and nurturing, as being more adult, and as being more knowledgable about sexual topics beginning at an even younger age that black boys. My previous study suggested that disparities began to emerge between perceptions of white and black boys around 14 or 15. For black girls, this begins as early as 5 and peaks around 10 to 15.

Across all age ranges, participants viewed Black girls collectively as more adult than white girls. Responses revealed, in particular, that participants perceived Black girls as needing less protection and nurturing than white girls, and that Black girls were perceived to know more about adult topics and are more knowledgeable about sex than their white
peers. The most significant differences were found in the age brackets that encompass mid-childhood and early adolescence—ages 5–9 and 10–14— and continued to a lesser degree in the 15- to 19-year-old age bracket. No statistically significant differences were found in the age group 0–4. That is, beginning as early as 5 years of age, Black girls were more likely to be viewed as behaving and seeming older than their stated age; more knowledgeable about adult topics, including sex; and more likely to take on adult roles and responsibilities than what would have been expected for their age.

These results suggest that Black girls are viewed as more adult than their white peers at almost all stages of childhood, beginning most significantly
at the age of 5, peaking during the ages of 10 to 14, and continuing during the ages of 15 to 19. In essence, adults appear to place distinct views and expectations on Black girls that characterize them as developmentally older than their white peers, especially in mid-childhood and early adolescence— critical periods for healthy identity development. The significance of this result lies in the potential for adultification to act as a contributing cause of the demonstrated harsher treatment of Black girls when compared to white girls of the same age. Simply put, if authorities in public systems view Black girls as less innocent, less needing of protection, and generally more like adults, it appears likely that they would also view Black girls as more culpable for their actions and, on that basis, punish them
more harshly despite their status as children. Thus, adultification may serve as a contributing cause of the disproportionality in school discipline outcomes, harsher treatment by law enforcement, and the differentiated exercise of discretion by officials across the spectrum of the juvenile justice system.

That said, boys and men are likely perceived as more dangerous, both by police and the general public, than girls and women.

Interesting. Danke.

[Kowani]

Daunte Wright memorial in Los Angeles was destroyed by right-wingers Lucas Reese Isturiz, Angie Chang, Kennedy Lindsey, and Tracey (last name unknown).

[Fahran]

Daunte Wright memorial in Los Angeles was destroyed by right-wingers Lucas Reese Isturiz, Angie Chang, Kennedy Lindsey, and Tracey (last name unknown).

Hopefully, they all face charges.

[Neanderthaland]

Daunte Wright memorial in Los Angeles was destroyed by right-wingers ...

Much as I disapprove of their actions, I'm not sure if I can condone name dropping them like that.

[Fahran]

Daunte Wright memorial in Los Angeles was destroyed by right-wingers ...

Much as I disapprove of their actions, I'm not sure if I can condone name dropping them like that.

This too. At least addresses weren't posted, so it's not quite doxxing yet, but it's still uncomfortably close.

[Dejado Atras]

Daunte Wright memorial in Los Angeles was destroyed by right-wingers Lucas Reese Isturiz, Angie Chang, Kennedy Lindsey, and Tracey (last name unknown).

Distasteful as that is I’m not sure disrespecting a memorial is chargeable. Though I could be wrong. I know grave desecration and damaging headstones for example is chargeable but I don’t know about blowing out candles and tearing down photos...

[Postauthoritarian America]

You mean the things that happen after the police declare the protest an unlawful assembly and break out the tear gas to disperse it?

What gets a protest declared an unlawful assembly?

Too many Black faces and/or liberal sentiments on signs in the crowd. Three Percenters who are planning to kidnap the governor displaying automatic weapons in the state legislative chambers get a pass, for example.

Meanwhile in Brooklyn Center things remain relatively peaceful. Several protesters turned out tonite in bathrobes and Crocs in support of a nearby resident who was taken down by the cops in her bathrobe, arrested and detained on suspicion of rioting and eventually charged with misdemeanor presence at an unlawful assembly which will most likely be dropped.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

13 year old in Chicago is chased by cops, drops his gun from his person as he hops a fence, is apprehended and told to raise his hands. He complies, raises both hands (neither of which carry a weapon), and is shot dead. It's a truly depressing thing to watch, especially since he was 13...

I hate to say it, but it looks like the kid might've been a recently recruited gang member or accomplice. His parents did very bad in keeping him supervised or out of trouble and he chose poorly. What is he doing out in the streets at 2 AM when he should be at home asleep for school?

I feel like you'd feel differently if he was white. Cause right now you're victim blaming in the first degree regarding a 13 year old being murdered.

[Fahran]

Too many Black faces and/or liberal sentiments on signs in the crowd.

I think this is a bit simplistic, especially when we consider a number of the issues I brought up before relating to non-uniform protest management strategies across agencies, the failure to adapt to often leaderless demonstrations, the ill-will between protestors and the police, the presence of saboteurs, white nationalists, anarchists, and criminal elements on the streets, and similar factors. While racial biases are certainly present, not just in police, but in ALL people, liberal setiment on its own doesn't seem to invite crackdowns. A couple of my studies focused on Occupy Protests as case studies and found that they were broadly handled far better than previous protests, with less of a need for escalation.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Daunte Wright memorial in Los Angeles was destroyed by right-wingers ...

Much as I disapprove of their actions, I'm not sure if I can condone name dropping them like that.

Nah, they disrespected a dead man. Name em and shame em.

[Dejado Atras]

Much as I disapprove of their actions, I'm not sure if I can condone name dropping them like that.

Nah, they disrespected a dead man. Name em and shame em.

I disagree. Because it can sometimes go beyond vocal “shaming” and criticizing.

Plus, I’m not the biggest fan of people being haunted for years on end because of doing something stupid and misguided like this. It’s disrespectful and petty no doubt, but still...

[Neanderthaland]

Daunte Wright memorial in Los Angeles was destroyed by right-wingers Lucas Reese Isturiz, Angie Chang, Kennedy Lindsey, and Tracey (last name unknown).

Distasteful as that is I’m not sure disrespecting a memorial is chargeable. Though I could be wrong. I know grave desecration and damaging headstones for example is chargeable but I don’t know about blowing out candles and tearing down photos...

I mean, it's pretty much the definition of "in poor taste," but yeah. I don't know if impromptu memorials are protected by any laws.

My guess would be "no." Only because I doubt it's come up much. Most people don't go out of their way to disrespect the recently dead like that. And memorials tend to have crowds of people who feel very strongly about them nearby. Making messing with them both an interesting way to "vice signal" as well as a profoundly unsafe thing to do. You'd have to be some kind of reckless evil idiot to attempt it.

[Neanderthaland]

Much as I disapprove of their actions, I'm not sure if I can condone name dropping them like that.

Nah, they disrespected a dead man. Name em and shame em.

I'm more concerned about painting a target on their back.

I don't like these guys either, but I'd rather not slide into a cycle of retribution more than we already have.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Nah, they disrespected a dead man. Name em and shame em.

I disagree. Because it can sometimes go beyond vocal “shaming” and criticizing.

Plus, I’m not the biggest fan of people being haunted for years on end because of doing something stupid and misguided like this. It’s disrespectful and petty no doubt, but still...

Misguided doesn't describe it. Its disgraceful and hateful and if they don't want to be hounded for being right wing creeps, they shouldn't be right wing creeps. They wanna play these games? They better be ready for issues. If my brother was shot dead by cops and two weeks later some red hatters destroyed a memorial for him, naming and shaming them would be the least i would be tempted to do.

[Dejado Atras]

Nah, they disrespected a dead man. Name em and shame em.

I'm more concerned about painting a target on their back.

I don't like these guys either, but I'd rather not slide into a cycle of retribution more than we already have.

This pretty much.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Nah, they disrespected a dead man. Name em and shame em.

I'm more concerned about painting a target on their back.

I don't like these guys either, but I'd rather not slide into a cycle of retribution more than we already have.

They already target us. Us being the nice guy doesn't change that these people are monsters.

[Fahran]

Piggy-backing off my response about unequal treatment of protests and intrinsic racial biases, it does seem that there is a quantifiable difference in how police have traditionally handled white-majority demonstrations and black-majority demonstrations, though these disparities seem to have declined somewhat since the 1970s.

We begin by looking briefly at the over-time variation in the proportion of African American protest events that were met with each of the three main kinds of policing described earlier (i.e., presence, arrests, and force/violence), in comparison with the proportion of white events that met with each of these.

Figure 2 shows that in nearly all of the years in our period, a greater proportion of African American protest events were met with police presence than were white events. The gap is particularly striking in some years. For example, in 1967, 70 percent of African American events had police present at them, while only 42 percent of white events did. In certain respects, this is an understandable finding given that 1967 was characterized by urban riots and was near the height of the black power movement. Police had arguably legitimate concerns about African American protest growing or getting “out of hand”; in this context, police likely felt the need to observe and monitor as many African American protest events as possible. Obviously, not all African American events during this year were riots, nor were they black power events, but the threat of these activities was not well understood at the time and clearly led to police monitoring of most African American protest. The gap is also striking in 1977, when nearly 75 percent of African American events drew police presence, while only a quarter of white events did so. In 1977, there were large riots in Chicago, as well as riots associated with the blackout in New York City; we thus expect similar dynamics (albeit of a lower magnitude) were in order in this year as in 1967.

Figure 2. Proportion of Events with Police Present

Figure 2 suggests that, in general, African American protest events were more likely to be policed. While compelling, this does not tell us anything about what happened at specific protest events that might make police more likely to respond and, in some cases, respond heavily. The figure does not tell us if police were responding to the race of the participants or to some set of behavioral threats. To address these issues, we turn to our multivariate analysis.23

As noted earlier, we first examine the odds of police presence at a protest event (see Table 1). Next, we examine the odds of three different policing strategies, given that police have shown up at an event (compared with the reference category of police doing nothing, once at an event): (1) making arrests, (2) using force/violence, or (3) making arrests in conjunction with using force/violence (see Table 2). In each case, we estimate two different model specifications—one where a dummy variable representing the presence of African Americans at an event and the splines representing time are included as the main effects only, and another where the dummy variable representing African American presence is interacted with the splines.

Results in Models 1 and 2 in Table 1 show striking continuity. We find that nearly all of the threat factors shown in previous research to increase policing are significant in our models. Specifically, the models reveal that protester use of violence and property damage are likely to bring police to an event. Police are also likely to appear at events where protesters use multiple tactics and events where protesters target the government. The odds of police presence also increase when counter-demonstrators are present. Finally, when protesters use confrontational or extremely confrontational tactics, the odds of police presence increase. There is one exception to these strikingly consistent findings: protest size has no significant effect on police presence.24

The more novel part of our story, however, is with respect to African American protest events. Models 1 and 2 show that African American protest events are more likely to draw police presence, even when we control for the measures of behavioral threat described earlier. In short, the results presented in Table 1 lend support to Protesting While Black. African American presence can be interpreted as increasing the odds of police presence in Model 1, but not in Model 2 because the effect of African American presence is conditional on the nonlinear time effect. Closer investigation of this effect shows that African American events were more likely to draw police presence in the years 1961 to 1982, inclusive.25

What do police do, once they are present at protest events? After they have arrived, do they treat African American protesters differently than white protesters? An examination of Table 2 reveals some interesting differences with respect to the types of policing, once police have arrived at an event.

The multinomial logistic regression models (with splines) shown in Table 2 reveal a similar consistency as do Models 1 and 2. Model 3 includes the main effect of African American presence and the time splines (along with the controls); Model 4 includes interactions between the splines and the African American presence variable. Note that the omnibus test for splines indicates that the B-spline coefficients are jointly significant, hence there is an interesting nonlinear temporal trend.26 The omnibus test for spline interactions shows that the interactions between the B-splines and the African American presence dummy are jointly significant. This indicates that at some times, certain tactics are statistically more likely to be used in events where African Americans are present. We discuss this finding in more detail below.

First, and most central to our chief goal here, Table 2 shows that once police arrive at an event with African Americans present, they are more likely to make arrests, to use force/violence, and to use force/violence in conjunction with arrests than they are to do nothing, although only the last of these outcomes is significantly more likely. These findings are directly in line with Protesting While Black.27

With respect to the various threat variables, we see that police are less likely to make arrests (only) than they are to do nothing at larger events. But, they are more likely to use force/violence, either alone or in conjunction with arrests, than they are to do nothing at these larger events. These findings hint at the possibility that at large events, police exercise restraint, unless an event gets out of control, at which point, police act with all means necessary to control the event.

When counter-demonstrators are present, police are less likely to make arrests or to use force/violence in conjunction with arrests than they are to do nothing, but they are slightly more likely to use force (than to do nothing). This interesting pattern is different than the pattern described earlier with respect to property damage. It appears that counter-demonstrator presence signals to police that a forceful response may be necessary, but that arrests (either alone or used in conjunction with force/violence) are not appropriate. One reason for this may be that at such events, police cannot reliably determine who should be arrested, thus they are more likely to resort to force/violence or to do nothing.

With respect to protesters’ tactics, when protesters use violence, police are more likely to use force/violence either alone or in combination with arrests than they are to do nothing. Police are also more likely to make arrests (either with or without also using force/violence) to control protesters (than they are to do nothing) when protesters use multiple tactics. These findings suggest that extremely confrontational tactics, use of violence, and use of multiple tactics are triggers for various kinds of police response, as the behavioral threat hypothesis predicts.

The multinomial logistic regression models presented in Table 2 show some interesting differences in patterns of protest policing with respect to the effects of our various threat variables. Model 3 also shows that, with respect to the policing of African American protesters, police are always more likely to use force and violence than they are to do nothing. Again, this is consistent with Protesting While Black. This is the most important finding in Table 2, as it adds to what we know about the predictors of protest policing in important ways.

Do these findings hold in all years in the analysis? Because of the conditional effect of African American presence in Model 4 (see Table 2), the effect of African American presence cannot be directly interpreted; instead, we can use Table 3, which shows the predicted probability that African Americans are more likely to experience a particular police strategy in a given year. Including the splines with knots in this model allows us to examine how these patterns differ from year to year. Table 3 shows the difference in the probability of each outcome for events where African Americans were present versus those where African Americans were not present. Again, values smaller than .025 indicate the outcome is significantly (with 95 percent confidence) more likely when African Americans are not present and values greater than .975 indicate the outcome is significantly more likely when African Americans are present. Specifically, cell entries in this table are the simulated p-values for the differences in the predicted probabilities of each of the given policing strategies between African American and white protest events (holding all other variables in Table 2 at their means).

Table 3 shows a number of interesting results.28 Only in the early period of the data are the police significantly more likely to do nothing when African Americans are not present, specifically from 1960 to 1971. This finding is in line with Protesting While Black. From 1983 to 1989, police were actually significantly more likely to do nothing at protest events where African Americans were present. During this later period, the Protesting While Black effect disappears, which runs counter to our expectations.

Table 3 shows that from 1960 to 1962, events with African American protesters were significantly more likely (than events without African Americans) to be met with arrests (when police showed up). From 1963 to 1981, African American and white protesters were equally likely to be arrested at protest events that police attended. From 1982 to 1989, however, arrests were more likely at events without African American protesters. Model 4 in Table 3 also indicates that police are rarely more likely to use force (without also using arrests) as a function of the protesters’ race (only in 1960). Finally, as discussed earlier, Table 3 indicates that from 1960 to 1971, events with African Americans present were more likely to be subject to arrests and force/violence.

These findings add nuance to results reported in Table 2. In that table, we found that African American protesters were more likely to be arrested and subjected to force/violence (than to have police do nothing). Here, we find this to be the case only from 1960 to 1970. We also find that arrests were more likely to be used in events with African Americans present from 1960 to 1962 and, importantly, that white protesters were actually more likely to be arrested in the 1982 to 1989 period. During this latter period, anti-abortion activists (e.g., Operation Rescue) and AIDS/HIV activists (e.g., ACT UP) staged many protests that were met with arrests. While African Americans were certainly active in these movements, they drew more heavily from the white population.

Table 3 also shows that events taking place between 1960 and 1971 were more likely to be met with police force/violence in conjunction with arrests when there were African American protesters in attendance; that is, during this time, African American protest events were more likely to be met with the full range of police action. After this period, however, there are no significant differences between African American and white protest events. Again, this finding adds nuance to results presented in Table 2 by showing that much of the effects are driven by the early part of our period, prior to important civil rights legislative victories and police reform in the late 1960s.

Cumulatively viewing our results, we find there is, in fact, a Protesting While Black phenomenon, but it is historically bounded and it depends on what kind of policing we are interested in.29 In particular, this phenomenon was most pronounced in the pre-1971 period (although there are a few scattered years in the 1970s where police were more likely to arrest protesters at African American events).

Source

[North Washington Republic]

Much as I disapprove of their actions, I'm not sure if I can condone name dropping them like that.

This too. At least addresses weren't posted, so it's not quite doxxing yet, but it's still uncomfortably close.

There is no reasonable expectation of privacy while destroying a public memorial. Plus, these jackasses want the clout, and are happier than a pig in shit than they have been named.

[Neanderthaland]

I'm more concerned about painting a target on their back.

I don't like these guys either, but I'd rather not slide into a cycle of retribution more than we already have.

They already target us. Us being the nice guy doesn't change that these people are monsters.

They targeted candles, and were deliberately offensive. They're giant assholes, and have revealed that fact for all to see. It doesn't need to go beyond that. We don't have to retaliate.

To quote Kratos: "The cycle ends here. We must be better than this. *snaps someone's neck*"

Uhh... not that last part.

[Fahran]

There is no reasonable expectation of privacy while destroying a public memorial. Plus, these jackasses want the clout, and are happier than a pig in shit than they have been named.

Doing deep investigations into the personal lives of suspects and then publishing the results of those investigations like this, especially in a high-tension environment, can lead to reprisals against people. It also doesn't serve much of an objective journalistic purpose as simply reporting on the vandalism and the suspects being arrested.

[North Washington Republic]

They already target us. Us being the nice guy doesn't change that these people are monsters.

They targeted candles, and were deliberately offensive. They're giant assholes, and have revealed that fact for all to see. It doesn't need to go beyond that. We don't have to retaliate.

To quote Kratos: "The cycle ends here. We must be better than this. *snaps someone's neck*"

Uhh... not that last part.

I agree, they shouldn’t be physically attacked in anyway. But people have a right to call them jackasses and to name said jackasses.

[Postauthoritarian America]

Law enforcement on the move in Brooklyn Center, reportedly making arrests. No curfew tonite. Many protesters reportedly backed out before dispersal order.