Trans Discussion Thread: Catgirls Don't Need Litterboxes

[The Unified Missourtama States]

As for the flag, I've included sources of it's origin right under it which show its a meme flag.

Killing Jewish people is also a meme, perhaps we should put that at the top of the thread as well? A thing being a meme does not make it less hostile.

[Auzkhia]

Just to clarify:
I've seen people say they are a transgender female. Does this mean they were born male but identify as female or vice versa?

Transgender female is another term for trans women, so yes.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Enhanced representation for a marginalised and misunderstood subgroup. Intersectionality at work, my dear Blaatson.

How? What specific gender related issues does this group have that are, even within the Trans community, misunderstood?

A key concept within intersectional theory is the way that oppressions do not simply overlap in an additive manner. Narrative and normative networks intersect in ways that produce unique forms of institutional disadvantage and social exclusion. Not only is this particular group disadvantaged in terms of the wider society's perception that they are performing gender "incorrectly" - with all the negative evaluations and social penalties that this entails - within trans communities themselves they are often similarly viewed as performing "transness" incorrectly. This is because the category of "transgender" has historically been constructed primarily through dialogue with left-libertarian narratives of "liberation" and alliances with (arguably unrelated) "progressive" social causes. A small self-selected group organises community events and deliberately performs formerly negative stereotypes in an exaggerated fashion in an effort to fabricate an "LGBT culture", which is then held up as the authentic and "natural" version of the identity of the "queer nation". This means that when people question the norms it is often perceived as an attack on the community itself - you can see this in the quite aggressively hostile response to Nakena for posting that flag even in a way that is quite obviously "doing a bit". The intersection produces what can be described as a "double exclusion" and an intensified experience of othering for non left-lib LGBT folk in which there is no refuge from them being told they are performing "wrong" and that they need to submit to other groups rather than articulate their own views and interests - useful parallels can, somewhat ironically perhaps, be drawn with bell hooks' criticisms of white feminism and black nationalism.

[Heloin]

How? What specific gender related issues does this group have that are, even within the Trans community, misunderstood?

A key concept within intersectional theory is the way that oppressions do not simply overlap in an additive manner. Narrative and normative networks intersect in ways that produce unique forms of institutional disadvantage and social exclusion. Not only is this particular group disadvantaged in terms of the wider society's perception that they are performing gender "incorrectly" - with all the negative evaluations and social penalties that this entails - within trans communities themselves they are often similarly viewed as performing "transness" incorrectly. This is because the category of "transgender" has historically been constructed primarily through dialogue with left-libertarian narratives of "liberation" and alliances with (arguably unrelated) "progressive" social causes. A small self-selected group organises community events and deliberately performs formerly negative stereotypes in an exaggerated fashion in an effort to fabricate an "LGBT culture", which is then held up as the authentic and "natural" version of the identity of the "queer nation". This means that when people question the norms it is often perceived as an attack on the community itself - you can see this in the quite aggressively hostile response to Nakena for posting that flag even in a way that is quite obviously "doing a bit". The intersection produces what can be described as a "double exclusion" and an intensified experience of othering for non left-lib LGBT folk in which there is no refuge from them being told they are performing "wrong" and that they need to submit to other groups rather than articulate their own views and interests - useful parallels can, somewhat ironically perhaps, be drawn with bell hooks' criticisms of white feminism and black nationalism.

I think most people would prefer that you don't associate Trans issues with Nazis.

[The Blaatschapen]

How? What specific gender related issues does this group have that are, even within the Trans community, misunderstood?

A key concept within intersectional theory is the way that oppressions do not simply overlap in an additive manner. Narrative and normative networks intersect in ways that produce unique forms of institutional disadvantage and social exclusion. Not only is this particular group disadvantaged in terms of the wider society's perception that they are performing gender "incorrectly" - with all the negative evaluations and social penalties that this entails - within trans communities themselves they are often similarly viewed as performing "transness" incorrectly. This is because the category of "transgender" has historically been constructed primarily through dialogue with left-libertarian narratives of "liberation" and alliances with (arguably unrelated) "progressive" social causes. A small self-selected group organises community events and deliberately performs formerly negative stereotypes in an exaggerated fashion in an effort to fabricate an "LGBT culture", which is then held up as the authentic and "natural" version of the identity of the "queer nation". This means that when people question the norms it is often perceived as an attack on the community itself - you can see this in the quite aggressively hostile response to Nakena for posting that flag even in a way that is quite obviously "doing a bit". The intersection produces what can be described as a "double exclusion" and an intensified experience of othering for non left-lib LGBT folk in which there is no refuge from them being told they are performing "wrong" and that they need to submit to other groups rather than articulate their own views and interests - useful parallels can, somewhat ironically perhaps, be drawn with bell hooks' criticisms of white feminism and black nationalism.

If people feel more institutional oppression because they are a nazi, they could simply stop being one.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

How? What specific gender related issues does this group have that are, even within the Trans community, misunderstood?

A key concept within intersectional theory is the way that oppressions do not simply overlap in an additive manner. Narrative and normative networks intersect in ways that produce unique forms of institutional disadvantage and social exclusion. Not only is this particular group disadvantaged in terms of the wider society's perception that they are performing gender "incorrectly" - with all the negative evaluations and social penalties that this entails - within trans communities themselves they are often similarly viewed as performing "transness" incorrectly. This is because the category of "transgender" has historically been constructed primarily through dialogue with left-libertarian narratives of "liberation" and alliances with (arguably unrelated) "progressive" social causes. A small self-selected group organises community events and deliberately performs formerly negative stereotypes in an exaggerated fashion in an effort to fabricate an "LGBT culture", which is then held up as the authentic and "natural" version of the identity of the "queer nation". This means that when people question the norms it is often perceived as an attack on the community itself - you can see this in the quite aggressively hostile response to Nakena for posting that flag even in a way that is quite obviously "doing a bit". The intersection produces what can be described as a "double exclusion" and an intensified experience of othering for non left-lib LGBT folk in which there is no refuge from them being told they are performing "wrong" and that they need to submit to other groups rather than articulate their own views and interests - useful parallels can, somewhat ironically perhaps, be drawn with bell hooks' criticisms of white feminism and black nationalism.

Amazing how you managed to say so much without actually answering the question. Did you receive a degree in Debating from the Mike Pence University of Dodging the Question?

[Dumb Ideologies]

A key concept within intersectional theory is the way that oppressions do not simply overlap in an additive manner. Narrative and normative networks intersect in ways that produce unique forms of institutional disadvantage and social exclusion. Not only is this particular group disadvantaged in terms of the wider society's perception that they are performing gender "incorrectly" - with all the negative evaluations and social penalties that this entails - within trans communities themselves they are often similarly viewed as performing "transness" incorrectly. This is because the category of "transgender" has historically been constructed primarily through dialogue with left-libertarian narratives of "liberation" and alliances with (arguably unrelated) "progressive" social causes. A small self-selected group organises community events and deliberately performs formerly negative stereotypes in an exaggerated fashion in an effort to fabricate an "LGBT culture", which is then held up as the authentic and "natural" version of the identity of the "queer nation". This means that when people question the norms it is often perceived as an attack on the community itself - you can see this in the quite aggressively hostile response to Nakena for posting that flag even in a way that is quite obviously "doing a bit". The intersection produces what can be described as a "double exclusion" and an intensified experience of othering for non left-lib LGBT folk in which there is no refuge from them being told they are performing "wrong" and that they need to submit to other groups rather than articulate their own views and interests - useful parallels can, somewhat ironically perhaps, be drawn with bell hooks' criticisms of white feminism and black nationalism.

Amazing how you managed to say so much without actually answering the question. Did you receive a degree in Debating from the Mike Pence University of Dodging the Question?

I do not think that is a real university but I am sorry that you did not find my post as educative and inspiring of reflection as I had hoped. I will endeavour to do better in future.

[The Blaatschapen]

A key concept within intersectional theory is the way that oppressions do not simply overlap in an additive manner. Narrative and normative networks intersect in ways that produce unique forms of institutional disadvantage and social exclusion. Not only is this particular group disadvantaged in terms of the wider society's perception that they are performing gender "incorrectly" - with all the negative evaluations and social penalties that this entails - within trans communities themselves they are often similarly viewed as performing "transness" incorrectly. This is because the category of "transgender" has historically been constructed primarily through dialogue with left-libertarian narratives of "liberation" and alliances with (arguably unrelated) "progressive" social causes. A small self-selected group organises community events and deliberately performs formerly negative stereotypes in an exaggerated fashion in an effort to fabricate an "LGBT culture", which is then held up as the authentic and "natural" version of the identity of the "queer nation". This means that when people question the norms it is often perceived as an attack on the community itself - you can see this in the quite aggressively hostile response to Nakena for posting that flag even in a way that is quite obviously "doing a bit". The intersection produces what can be described as a "double exclusion" and an intensified experience of othering for non left-lib LGBT folk in which there is no refuge from them being told they are performing "wrong" and that they need to submit to other groups rather than articulate their own views and interests - useful parallels can, somewhat ironically perhaps, be drawn with bell hooks' criticisms of white feminism and black nationalism.

Amazing how you managed to say so much without actually answering the question. Did you receive a degree in Debating from the Mike Pence University of Dodging the Question?

That's the other thing, sure one might be oppressed in multiple ways that amplify each other, but this thread would only explore the trans related oppressions, not the other ones.

Otherwise we can have an intersectionality thread that covers it all, and we can state our various ways in which we are oppressed.

Me, for example, I'm too pretty

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

Amazing how you managed to say so much without actually answering the question. Did you receive a degree in Debating from the Mike Pence University of Dodging the Question?

That's the other thing, sure one might be oppressed in multiple ways that amplify each other, but this thread would only explore the trans related oppressions, not the other ones.

Otherwise we can have an intersectionality thread that covers it all, and we can state our various ways in which we are oppressed.

Me, for example, I'm too pretty

i'm so attractive when i look in the mirror i wonder if it's really me and why and what if i had a different bodyandiseveryonethisuncomfortablyselfaware-

[Dumb Ideologies]

That's the other thing, sure one might be oppressed in multiple ways that amplify each other, but this thread would only explore the trans related oppressions, not the other ones.

Otherwise we can have an intersectionality thread that covers it all, and we can state our various ways in which we are oppressed.

Me, for example, I'm too pretty

i'm so attractive when i look in the mirror i wonder if it's really me and why and what if i had a different bodyandiseveryonethisuncomfortablyselfaware-

It makes me dreadfully conscious that I am a poorly configured nervous system badly piloting a meat puppet.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

i'm so attractive when i look in the mirror i wonder if it's really me and why and what if i had a different bodyandiseveryonethisuncomfortablyselfaware-

It makes me dreadfully conscious that I am a poorly configured nervous system badly piloting a meat puppet.

stop violating the nap by stealing my thoughts out my head, that's my intellectual property.

[Auzkhia]

I didn't know I had the same height as Taylor Swift, TIL.

I'm 180 cm/5'11" and that is taller than most women, but like I've always been tall, even as a kid. I remember I was the first or second tallest in my class, until middle school and high school that is, but now I get to be seen as taller, especially living as a woman, and not a man. I think the average height for American women is 5'4" and the average height for American men is 5'9", but shorter men don't stick out as much as taller women.

I like my height, even if one thinks it's a "clockable" feature.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

I didn't know I had the same height as Taylor Swift, TIL.

I'm 180 cm/5'11" and that is taller than most women, but like I've always been tall, even as a kid. I remember I was the first or second tallest in my class, until middle school and high school that is, but now I get to be seen as taller, especially living as a woman, and not a man. I think the average height for American women is 5'4" and the average height for American men is 5'9", but shorter men don't stick out as much as taller women.

I like my height, even if one thinks it's a "clockable" feature.

i've always been kind of tall, but slowed down growing in middle school and am like 5'6-7 rn. it's an ok height, i might get taller, but it's fine either way. pretty set in the middle, thanks genetic lottery.

[Grenartia]

Shit, was not expecting the thread to reach 500 so quickly. Thanks for picking up the dropped ball.

[The Reformed American Republic]

As for the flag, I've included sources of it's origin right under it which show its a meme flag.

Killing Jewish people is also a meme, perhaps we should put that at the top of the thread as well? A thing being a meme does not make it less hostile.

Nak's flag comes from another faction that was purged by Hitler. I think its safe to say that either way, Nak does NOT support genocide.

[Grenartia]

As for the flag, I've included sources of it's origin right under it which show its a meme flag.

Killing Jewish people is also a meme, perhaps we should put that at the top of the thread as well? A thing being a meme does not make it less hostile.

If I had understood that the thread was going to hit 500 while I was asleep, I would have posted the new one and gone with some aesthetic changes Gio suggested.

[The Unified Missourtama States]

Nak's flag comes from another faction that was purged by Hitler. I think its safe to say that either way, Nak does NOT support genocide.

Strasserism is very antisemitic, they were shunned by Hitler because they wanted a more social economy (not because they loved inclusiveness), they very much hated the Jewish:

Strasserism became a distinct strand of Nazism that whilst holding on to previous Nazi ideals such as antisemitism and palingenetic ultranationalism, added a strong critique of capitalism on economic antisemitic grounds and framed this in the demand for a more worker-based approach to economics.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism]

[Kowani]

Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves (R) signs bill banning transgender athletes from girls or women's sports teams

[The Reformed American Republic]

Nak's flag comes from another faction that was purged by Hitler. I think its safe to say that either way, Nak does NOT support genocide.

Strasserism is very antisemitic, they were shunned by Hitler because they wanted a more social economy (not because they loved inclusiveness), they very much hated the Jewish:

Strasserism became a distinct strand of Nazism that whilst holding on to previous Nazi ideals such as antisemitism and palingenetic ultranationalism, added a strong critique of capitalism on economic antisemitic grounds and framed this in the demand for a more worker-based approach to economics.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism]

To be honest, I thought their antisemitism was less severe for some reason. I digress though, as I never thought of the ideology as good or something to be implemented.

Since the flag is not an official flag of the Nazi regime, I don't see much of a problem with Nak being edgy though. I doubt she is actually a fascist.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I didn't know I had the same height as Taylor Swift, TIL.

I'm 180 cm/5'11" and that is taller than most women, but like I've always been tall, even as a kid. I remember I was the first or second tallest in my class, until middle school and high school that is, but now I get to be seen as taller, especially living as a woman, and not a man. I think the average height for American women is 5'4" and the average height for American men is 5'9", but shorter men don't stick out as much as taller women.

I like my height, even if one thinks it's a "clockable" feature.

...Yeah, as a short man I can safely say you’re dead wrong about short men not standing out as much. I've literally been made fun of for my height (5'3) and I'm generally at eye-level with most women while most men seem to tower over me.

Except Mexican men, who are often about as short as I am.

[Nakena]

Killing Jewish people is also a meme, perhaps we should put that at the top of the thread as well?

Nah.

-snip-

Not exactly. It's a bit more complicated:

The origins of Stransserism

Related wikia entry

For everything else, you got a TG.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves (R) signs bill banning transgender athletes from girls or women's sports teams

Let's be honest, this is to distract people from the GOP's economic failures. It throws red meat to a segment of the population who are extreme culture warriors, getting the GOP votes without actually making people's lives better. The GOP did the same crap a few years back with a transgender bathroom bill.

[Owlograd]

Hello my beautiful peeps! I may be suffering from an illness but I can still campaign for trans-gender rights! (despite not being one)

[Auzkhia]

I didn't know I had the same height as Taylor Swift, TIL.

I'm 180 cm/5'11" and that is taller than most women, but like I've always been tall, even as a kid. I remember I was the first or second tallest in my class, until middle school and high school that is, but now I get to be seen as taller, especially living as a woman, and not a man. I think the average height for American women is 5'4" and the average height for American men is 5'9", but shorter men don't stick out as much as taller women.

I like my height, even if one thinks it's a "clockable" feature.

...Yeah, as a short man I can safely say you’re dead wrong about short men not standing out as much. I've literally been made fun of for my height (5'3) and I'm generally at eye-level with most women while most men seem to tower over me.

Except Mexican men, who are often about as short as I am.

I'm sorry. Though I definitely can see that, but I meant like, more people can think of a short man than a tall woman, regardless of teasing or bullying.

I didn't know I had the same height as Taylor Swift, TIL.

I'm 180 cm/5'11" and that is taller than most women, but like I've always been tall, even as a kid. I remember I was the first or second tallest in my class, until middle school and high school that is, but now I get to be seen as taller, especially living as a woman, and not a man. I think the average height for American women is 5'4" and the average height for American men is 5'9", but shorter men don't stick out as much as taller women.

I like my height, even if one thinks it's a "clockable" feature.

i've always been kind of tall, but slowed down growing in middle school and am like 5'6-7 rn. it's an ok height, i might get taller, but it's fine either way. pretty set in the middle, thanks genetic lottery.

My younger cis sister is 5'7" and my fiancée, who is transfem, is 5'8" and they look about the same height.

[Kowani]

Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves (R) signs bill banning transgender athletes from girls or women's sports teams

Let's be honest, this is to distract people from the GOP's economic failures. It throws red meat to a segment of the population who are extreme culture warriors, getting the GOP votes without actually making people's lives better. The GOP did the same crap a few years back with a transgender bathroom bill.

this is accurate, yes