[SCRAPPED] Commend The Communist Bloc

[Kavagrad]

Indeed, it should be placed in queue without a campaign, such is the quality (measured in coolness and goodness) of this proposal.

You can ask here, but you probably won't do it.

You labour under the impression that this will be needed. The WA Elite will push our proposal to quorum any moment now!

[Cedoria]

You can ask here, but you probably won't do it.

You labour under the impression that this will be needed. The WA Elite will push our proposal to quorum any moment now!

Indeed, our dear Comrades in the WA Elite will undeniably see this proposal for the unfettered genius that it is and push it to quorum successfully, where it will then pass with the largest majority ever seen in WA History!

[New Samon]

You labour under the impression that this will be needed. The WA Elite will push our proposal to quorum any moment now!

Indeed, our dear Comrades in the WA Elite will undeniably see this proposal for the unfettered genius that it is and push it to quorum successfully, where it will then pass with the largest majority ever seen in WA History!

Agreed comrade, this is how truly cool and good the Communist Bloc is! The WA elite cannot possibly fathom their coolness and greatness, so they must only agree.

[Silvedania]

Indeed, our dear Comrades in the WA Elite will undeniably see this proposal for the unfettered genius that it is and push it to quorum successfully, where it will then pass with the largest majority ever seen in WA History!

Agreed comrade, this is how truly cool and good the Communist Bloc is! The WA elite cannot possibly fathom their coolness and greatness, so they must only agree.

It will amaze them with its cool and goodness.

[Kavagrad]

I honestly don't think that this proposal is reaching quorum (though it got a lot closer than expected), so let's throw out a quick post about what has actually happened over the last few days.

As someone who drops into the SC forum on occasion, without much interest in the WA, there's a very obvious (even to me!) pattern whenever a new player proposes something that falls below the standards of people that take this game too seriously. A quick dog-pile, leading to an alienated new player that'll probably log off in two weeks and never log on again. There's no clearly-definable WA Elite, but there sure is a culture of toxic elitism in the WA.

When I saw Kazakhstan 3's Condemn TCB, and the initial responses to it, I assumed we were seeing the same thing again, but it quickly became obvious (to me, apparently not to some) that the entire proposal was a joke. And thus, Kazakhstan 3 managed to drag a bunch of WA-oriented players into an even bigger dog-pile than usual, simply by virtue of having no reason to accept that the proposal wasn't very good (they already knew that!), which in turn caused others, sick of that toxic elitist attitude, to rally for the proposal to reach quorum.

You worked against yourselves. Had y'all seen it for the joke it was and moved on, you wouldn't be wasting 3 days on it in the SC right now. Well done!

Nothing that I've seen over the last few days suggests that anyone has any intention of reflecting on this. I had hoped to give you more time to reflect by wasting even more of your time with this (cool and good proposal), but this one probably isn't making it, and in any case what I'm telling you should be so obvious that if you haven't figured it out by now, I doubt you will.

Hopefully I'm wrong about that, because at the moment it's no wonder that a lot of people on this site don't give a toss about the WA.

---

Edit/Side Note: "I would support X if it was actually well-written" is a bad stance, too. They get the badge either way, it doesn't matter.

[Pluvie]

I honestly don't think that this proposal is reaching quorum (though it got a lot closer than expected), so let's throw out a quick post about what has actually happened over the last few days.

As someone who drops into the SC forum on occasion, without much interest in the WA, there's a very obvious (even to me!) pattern whenever a new player proposes something that falls below the standards of people that take this game too seriously. A quick dog-pile, leading to an alienated new player that'll probably log off in two weeks and never log on again. There's no clearly-definable WA Elite, but there sure is a culture of toxic elitism in the WA.

When I saw Kazakhstan 3's Condemn TCB, and the initial responses to it, I assumed we were seeing the same thing again, but it quickly became obvious (to me, apparently not to some) that the entire proposal was a joke. And thus, Kazakhstan 3 managed to drag a bunch of WA-oriented players into an even bigger dog-pile than usual, simply by virtue of having no reason to accept that the proposal wasn't very good (they already knew that!), which in turn caused others, sick of that toxic elitist attitude, to rally for the proposal to reach quorum.

You worked against yourselves. Had y'all seen it for the joke it was and moved on, you wouldn't be wasting 3 days on it in the SC right now. Well done!

Nothing that I've seen over the last few days suggests that anyone has any intention of reflecting on this. I had hoped to give you more time to reflect by wasting even more of your time with this cool and good proposal, but this one probably isn't making it, and in any case what I'm telling you should be so obvious that if you haven't figured it out by now, I doubt you will.

Hopefully I'm wrong about that, because at the moment it's no wonder that a lot of people on this site don't give a toss about the WA.

---

Edit/Side Note: "I would support X if it was actually well-written" is a bad stance, too. They get the badge either way, it doesn't matter.

So first of all, keep in mind that 75% of the people arguing in threads like this one and the condemn thread are in no way SC regulars. A lot of these people are people I have literally never seen before who just randomly showed up to bash on this and similar proposals. Secondly, you created this thread during the middle of another huge argument where notably both sides were filled with unnecessary trolling and hate. You also created this right before the original thread was locked for a day so all the debate that was there migrated here instead. And to be entirely honest, I didn’t see this thread as anything more than a troll just like the first one. I mean it’s basically the same exact thing except a commend rather than condemn.

In addition to all this, considering the author of the original condemn proposal is both on a one day forum ban and spent much of their time in that thread consistently trolling and baiting other players, I can understand why some people didn’t see it as a joke. And I’m pretty sure the author wrote the proposal to incite that kind of reaction from like everything they’ve said in their threads. I agree that the thread should have just been ignored and we could all move on with our lives, I totally agree with that, but creating a second proposal to bait people into that trap further seems like the opposite of a solution and more seems like looking for a reason to condemn the WA.

Also the SC is not about the badges. Most of the actually experienced WA regulars we have here do care about the quality of writing in a proposal. I sure as hell do. If someone were trying to commend or condemn me with a proposal like that, I would ask them not to do that too. And while you say it’s a “bad stance” it’s a stance I will stand by forever. The point of the SC is not badges but to see peoples hard work on NationStates be properly commended or condemned and so for me the writing is the most important thing in all honesty.

[Adraen Coalition]

“Mr. Kavagrad, tear down this wall!”

The wall just got 10 feet higher.

Only 10 feet higher? Cringe. It needs to be 20 feet higher

[Galiantus III]

I have submitted my plea to the WA Elite, may their extremely communist and cool and good hands carry my proposal to its rightful place at quorum.

And may it fail at vote like the first piece of garbage and any other garbage proposal related to this incident.

Lol. Tell that to your delegate, who approves every piece of garbage submitted to the WA.

[Kavagrad]

So first of all, keep in mind that 75% of the people arguing in threads like this one and the condemn thread are in no way SC regulars.

I can only take your word for it, but the fact that this happens at all is an issue, regardless of whether or not "SC regulars" are primarily responsible. It's their standards that drive it, in any case.

Secondly, you created this thread during the middle of another huge argument where notably both sides were filled with unnecessary trolling and hate. You also created this right before the original thread was locked for a day so all the debate that was there migrated here instead. And to be entirely honest, I didn’t see this thread as anything more than a troll just like the first one. I mean it’s basically the same exact thing except a commend rather than condemn.

In addition to all this, considering the author of the original condemn proposal is both on a one day forum ban and spent much of their time in that thread consistently trolling and baiting other players, I can understand why some people didn’t see it as a joke. And I’m pretty sure the author wrote the proposal to incite that kind of reaction from like everything they’ve said in their threads.

I certainly read it, and the author's responses, as fairly obviously unserious, I know a lot of people that read it the same way, and I know for a fact that the author intended it to be a joke. Perhaps it's a little more difficult to read that way when the joke is at your expense.

I agree that the thread should have just been ignored and we could all move on with our lives, I totally agree with that, but creating a second proposal to bait people into that trap further seems like the opposite of a solution and more seems like looking for a reason to condemn the WA.

What can I say? If I wasn't right, it wouldn't have worked. Establishing an obvious pattern of behaviour makes it harder to pretend that it isn't happening.

Also the SC is not about the badges.

You could've fooled me, with the discourse about who does and doesn't "deserve" them. I don't really care about this, though.

Most of the actually experienced WA regulars we have here do care about the quality of writing in a proposal. I sure as hell do. If someone were trying to commend or condemn me with a proposal like that, I would ask them not to do that too. And while you say it’s a “bad stance” it’s a stance I will stand by forever. The point of the SC is not badges but to see peoples hard work on NationStates be properly commended or condemned and so for me the writing is the most important thing in all honesty.

Okay, and? There's a difference between simply ignoring stuff that doesn't meet your standards and moving on, and dog-piling onto it, as happens regularly. If the SC community wants to hold such high standards, they can do so in a way that doesn't publicly humiliate new people that are dipping their toes into the water. It's pretty clear that you agree to some extent, you've said as much, but that kinda makes this last part redundant, no?

[Pluvie]

I can only take your word for it, but the fact that this happens at all is an issue, regardless of whether or not "SC regulars" are primarily responsible. It's their standards that drive it, in any case.

What makes you say that? We don't control what other people say in SC threads, that's not really how free speech works. Yes we're often the first people to say okay yeah this probably should be improved, but if you look at the first couple of pages of the original thread, a lot of us were making actually constructive criticisms until the author refused to acknowledge anything and then TCB came in to troll xD

Also what evidence do you have of this happening a lot? I don't think I've seen any proposals get quite this much negative attention and I've been here for months.

I certainly read it, and the author's responses, as fairly obviously unserious, I know a lot of people that read it the same way, and I know for a fact that the author intended it to be a joke. Perhaps it's a little more difficult to read that way when the joke is at your expense.

So did you not read anything about the one day forum ban and the consistent trolling because I'd say that's some pretty damning evidence of that proposal not being a joke. Also how in the world is that joke at my expense? I spent almost all my time just trying to get people to ignore the thread... (that and one silly joke near the beginning). I honestly don't care all that much about the proposal, it could easily have been a joke and just a lot of people overreacted and then a lot more random people took it a bit too far, but at the same time, I have to acknowledge that Kazakhstan 3 himself has made several comments that have also taken it too far. Such is the way of a debate out of control.

What can I say? If I wasn't right, it wouldn't have worked. Establishing an obvious pattern of behaviour makes it harder to pretend that it isn't happening.

You didn't establish an obvious pattern of behavior, you just egged people on further. Let me try and explain better what I mean. Your proposal is nearly identical to the original condemn proposal. You posted it right in the middle of a ridiculously blown up argument over it, and what, you expected people to just be like "yes this is the best proposal"? You essentially just created a second argument thread for people to argue in, and as far as I can tell, most people just thought you were trolling like the last guy.

And you are right, at least in the fact that the condemn proposal should never have earned the attention that it got, but just because you're right on that doesn't make any real correlation to what happened in this thread, other than the fact that the argument moved places once the original thread was locked. I really don't see what point you're trying to make here because we all knew that this proposal would incite a similar reaction to the other identical proposal to it that was also having a really negative effect on the SC. In other words, I don't see any world where we could have reflected on the original thread through here because that was in no way obviously the purpose of this thread to literally anybody else.

You could've fooled me, with the discourse about who does and doesn't "deserve" them. I don't really care about this, though.

So the fact that some people are commend/condemnable makes the SC suddenly focused on badges? Yes, not every player on NationStates has put in the real time and effort to make a difference on the game, that's just the way it is, that has nothing to do with us hoarding badges away or something.

Okay, and? There's a difference between simply ignoring stuff that doesn't meet your standards and moving on, and dog-piling onto it, as happens regularly. If the SC community wants to be hold such high standards, they can do so in a way that doesn't publicly humiliate new people that are dipping their toes into the water. It's pretty clear that you agree to some extent, you've said as much, but that kinda makes this last part redundant, no?

Again I don't know where you're getting "regularly" from. Many SC regulars even try to help newer folks write a better proposal and/or do some better research on a players achievements. In other cases, SC people try to explain how the SC works for those who are new here and that often involves noting that their nominee may not be commendable, but that's just kind of a given. I have never seen this be a "public humiliation" thing, although I do admit some SC people can be harsh at times. I really have never seen dog-piling and group bashing like this uh ever. And most of the folks still talking in the threads at this point are not SC regulars in all honesty, and you can't really use that as a comparison for the entirety of the SC.

So seriously, I can understand the argument about this proposal in particular, hell I agree with it fully and entirely, but I can't rightfully use this mess as a comparison for the rest of the SC. Heck even now that things are quieting down a little, things look wildly different than they did during the couple of days when the proposal got attention. Perhaps I'm simply an optimist and I see things in a very different light (not that that isn't respectable) but I don't see condemn TCB as an example for the rest of the SC in any way.

[Refuge Isle]

As someone who drops into the SC forum on occasion, without much interest in the WA, there's a very obvious (even to me!) pattern whenever a new player proposes something that falls below the standards of people that take this game too seriously. A quick dog-pile, leading to an alienated new player that'll probably log off in two weeks and never log on again. There's no clearly-definable WA Elite, but there sure is a culture of toxic elitism in the WA.

I don't speak for anyone else but myself, but I support new writers to the WA boards in trying to figure out what on earth to do and how to improve the quality of a draft. Usually entirely separate of my political feelings on the matter. My post history in the SC and GA is evidence of this, and has been since I took up deputy ministership over six months ago. In the case of both this draft and Condemn The Communist Bloc by Kazakhstan 3, all feedback and constructive criticism was blown off. It is very odd of you to complain that the environment of the SC isn't supportive when you've only ever responded to commentary with "no, it is cool and good". Just bad faith all around.

And thus, Kazakhstan 3 managed to drag a bunch of WA-oriented players into an even bigger dog-pile than usual, simply by virtue of having no reason to accept that the proposal wasn't very good (they already knew that!),

Yet feedback was still provided (and blown off).

which in turn caused others, sick of that toxic elitist attitude, to rally for the proposal to reach quorum.

Mmmn, no it wasn't a grassroots Down With The Man tidal wave. It was approvals from a relentless manual telegram campaign from one hyperactive sponsor, where a number of approvals were granted due to it being a meme, it being about bashing communism, or given to watch it fail. Were this not the case, there would be a groundswell from minor delegates supporting the condemnation. there is not, and we can demonstratively see this.

Hopefully I'm wrong about that, because at the moment it's no wonder that a lot of people on this site don't give a toss about the WA.

If you were vehemently against the concept of the WA before you arrived, surely it colours the view of anything that happens after you get here. Proposals that are well-researched, well-constructed, even if on an unpopular subject matter, will still be received well. Certainly tremendously better than a proposal consisting of fifteen words and the inability to have a conversation about them other than unwavering support. Not sure what you were expecting to happen.

Edit/Side Note: "I would support X if it was actually well-written" is a bad stance, too. They get the badge either way, it doesn't matter.

Some of us care about the quality of writing which will remain on display for however long this website remains around. Condemnations and Commendations have value because of their high standards and relative difficulty to both create and achieve. If a single sentence were enough to get one done, with no thought or care about its content, that wouldn't be anything that anyone should value.

It's disappointing for me to read this comment when I spend the majority of my writing on this board exclusively talking about proposals' mechanical construction.

[Outer Sparta]

I honestly don't think that this proposal is reaching quorum (though it got a lot closer than expected), so let's throw out a quick post about what has actually happened over the last few days.

As someone who drops into the SC forum on occasion, without much interest in the WA, there's a very obvious (even to me!) pattern whenever a new player proposes something that falls below the standards of people that take this game too seriously. A quick dog-pile, leading to an alienated new player that'll probably log off in two weeks and never log on again. There's no clearly-definable WA Elite, but there sure is a culture of toxic elitism in the WA.

When I saw Kazakhstan 3's Condemn TCB, and the initial responses to it, I assumed we were seeing the same thing again, but it quickly became obvious (to me, apparently not to some) that the entire proposal was a joke. And thus, Kazakhstan 3 managed to drag a bunch of WA-oriented players into an even bigger dog-pile than usual, simply by virtue of having no reason to accept that the proposal wasn't very good (they already knew that!), which in turn caused others, sick of that toxic elitist attitude, to rally for the proposal to reach quorum.

You worked against yourselves. Had y'all seen it for the joke it was and moved on, you wouldn't be wasting 3 days on it in the SC right now. Well done!

Nothing that I've seen over the last few days suggests that anyone has any intention of reflecting on this. I had hoped to give you more time to reflect by wasting even more of your time with this (cool and good proposal), but this one probably isn't making it, and in any case what I'm telling you should be so obvious that if you haven't figured it out by now, I doubt you will.

Hopefully I'm wrong about that, because at the moment it's no wonder that a lot of people on this site don't give a toss about the WA.

---

Edit/Side Note: "I would support X if it was actually well-written" is a bad stance, too. They get the badge either way, it doesn't matter.

You're missing the entire point. Many people have given feedback that the author completely ignored and not only that, they went on a rant on how their proposal is the best that's ever made despite lacking any substantive detail. I don't see how your poorly-written proposal is a good response to all of this.

[Kavagrad]

I honestly don't think that this proposal is reaching quorum (though it got a lot closer than expected), so let's throw out a quick post about what has actually happened over the last few days.

As someone who drops into the SC forum on occasion, without much interest in the WA, there's a very obvious (even to me!) pattern whenever a new player proposes something that falls below the standards of people that take this game too seriously. A quick dog-pile, leading to an alienated new player that'll probably log off in two weeks and never log on again. There's no clearly-definable WA Elite, but there sure is a culture of toxic elitism in the WA.

When I saw Kazakhstan 3's Condemn TCB, and the initial responses to it, I assumed we were seeing the same thing again, but it quickly became obvious (to me, apparently not to some) that the entire proposal was a joke. And thus, Kazakhstan 3 managed to drag a bunch of WA-oriented players into an even bigger dog-pile than usual, simply by virtue of having no reason to accept that the proposal wasn't very good (they already knew that!), which in turn caused others, sick of that toxic elitist attitude, to rally for the proposal to reach quorum.

You worked against yourselves. Had y'all seen it for the joke it was and moved on, you wouldn't be wasting 3 days on it in the SC right now. Well done!

Nothing that I've seen over the last few days suggests that anyone has any intention of reflecting on this. I had hoped to give you more time to reflect by wasting even more of your time with this (cool and good proposal), but this one probably isn't making it, and in any case what I'm telling you should be so obvious that if you haven't figured it out by now, I doubt you will.

Hopefully I'm wrong about that, because at the moment it's no wonder that a lot of people on this site don't give a toss about the WA.

---

Edit/Side Note: "I would support X if it was actually well-written" is a bad stance, too. They get the badge either way, it doesn't matter.

You're missing the entire point. Many people have given feedback that the author completely ignored and not only that, they went on a rant on how their proposal is the best that's ever made despite lacking any substantive detail. I don't see how your poorly-written proposal is a good response to all of this.

Seems to me like I haven't missed anything, based on the fact that I never said that Kazakstan 3's proposal was any good (I straight-up said that it wasn't in the post that you're quoting). I said that certain people, that could've easily ignored it and moved on, instead doubled down on the same shit I see here pretty much every time I drop in. Which, in turn, fueled the meme and ended up bringing it to quorum.

Please read what I wrote before responding to me next time.

[Outer Sparta]

You're missing the entire point. Many people have given feedback that the author completely ignored and not only that, they went on a rant on how their proposal is the best that's ever made despite lacking any substantive detail. I don't see how your poorly-written proposal is a good response to all of this.

Seems to me like I haven't missed anything, based on the fact that I never said that Kazakstan 3's proposal was any good (I straight-up said that it wasn't in the post that you're quoting). I said that certain people, that could've easily ignored it and moved on, instead doubled down on the same shit I see here pretty much every time I drop in. Which, in turn, fueled the meme and ended up bringing it to quorum.

Please read what I wrote before responding to me next time.

Then what even is your motive for writing this poorly-written proposal and garnering yet another bandwagon following?

[Kavagrad]

Seems to me like I haven't missed anything, based on the fact that I never said that Kazakstan 3's proposal was any good (I straight-up said that it wasn't in the post that you're quoting). I said that certain people, that could've easily ignored it and moved on, instead doubled down on the same shit I see here pretty much every time I drop in. Which, in turn, fueled the meme and ended up bringing it to quorum.

Please read what I wrote before responding to me next time.

Then what even is your motive for writing this poorly-written proposal and garnering yet another bandwagon following?

Because my theory was that people would overreact for the same joke twice in quick succession and thereby fuel a second meme proposal to the brink of quorum, thus proving my point. And a fair few did.

Admittedly, the feedback on this one hasn't been quite as nasty. My theory is that this is because I made the joke far more obvious in my replies, and because some that jumped on the initial one reflected to an extent and backed out before this one went anywhere. For the latter, there is evidence of this on the second thread made for Kazakhstan 3's proposal, folks talking about giving them too much attention, etc. Though some, of course, kept going back to that thread, too. Some even doubled down on this toxic elitism to an extent that even I wasn't expecting, which I found quite amusing.

[Galiantus III]

Then what even is your motive for writing this poorly-written proposal and garnering yet another bandwagon following?

Because my theory was that people would overreact for the same joke twice in quick succession and thereby fuel a second meme proposal to the brink of quorum, thus proving my point. And a fair few did.

Admittedly, the feedback on this one hasn't been quite as nasty. My theory is that this is because I made the joke far more obvious in my replies, and because some that jumped on the initial one reflected to an extent and backed out before this one went anywhere. For the latter, there is evidence of this on the second thread made for Kazakhstan 3's proposal, folks talking about giving them too much attention, etc. Though some, of course, kept going back to that thread, too. Some even doubled down on this toxic elitism to an extent that even I wasn't expecting, which I found quite amusing.

Me, an elitist? I'm flattered.

[Outer Sparta]

Then what even is your motive for writing this poorly-written proposal and garnering yet another bandwagon following?

Because my theory was that people would overreact for the same joke twice in quick succession and thereby fuel a second meme proposal to the brink of quorum, thus proving my point. And a fair few did.

Admittedly, the feedback on this one hasn't been quite as nasty. My theory is that this is because I made the joke far more obvious in my replies, and because some that jumped on the initial one reflected to an extent and backed out before this one went anywhere. For the latter, there is evidence of this on the second thread made for Kazakhstan 3's proposal, folks talking about giving them too much attention, etc. Though some, of course, kept going back to that thread, too. Some even doubled down on this toxic elitism to an extent that even I wasn't expecting, which I found quite amusing.

Will you withdraw your clearly joke proposal or to further your experiment, actually let it go to a vote and get curb-stomped?

[Kavagrad]

Because my theory was that people would overreact for the same joke twice in quick succession and thereby fuel a second meme proposal to the brink of quorum, thus proving my point. And a fair few did.

Admittedly, the feedback on this one hasn't been quite as nasty. My theory is that this is because I made the joke far more obvious in my replies, and because some that jumped on the initial one reflected to an extent and backed out before this one went anywhere. For the latter, there is evidence of this on the second thread made for Kazakhstan 3's proposal, folks talking about giving them too much attention, etc. Though some, of course, kept going back to that thread, too. Some even doubled down on this toxic elitism to an extent that even I wasn't expecting, which I found quite amusing.

Will you withdraw your clearly joke proposal or to further your experiment, actually let it go to a vote and get curb-stomped?

Well, now that quorum-raiding has been proposed to stop it... I've got to at least give them time to have a go.

I am also considering a couple of other factors, but at the very least it's staying up a bit longer. Could go to vote.

I'm well aware that it'll be defeated, of course.

[Ohpistan]

From when I'm writing this, expect a quorum! Rejoice! Kavagrad, I would put my full support behind you, but the other resolution has me convinced. Would be contradictory if I voted for, but I certainly wouldn't discourage you!

[Jedinsto]

When I saw this, I knew it was a joke, as you responded to feedback and stuff in a way that was clearly a joke. Kazakhstan 3 was flaming, completely ignoring feedback, and just generally being hostile towards anyone interested in higher standards in the SC. I definitely wasted my time on those threads, but it's not in my nature to let stuff like that slide. You definitely have a point in people being a bit harsh, though, I spend more time on the GA, but it happens a little there too. I've tried to start being nicer, I hope I've done a good job. Kazakhstan 3 has forfeited any chance of me being nice to him. However, I won't be a downright asshole so I don't get forumbanned.

[Jedinsto]

This has reached quorum, and, I don't really expect you to, but I am kindly asking you to withdraw this, so we don't have to vote on it for 4 days.

[Greater Cesnica]

Let's not. Please.

[Kavagrad]

This has reached quorum, and, I don't really expect you to, but I am kindly asking you to withdraw this, so we don't have to vote on it for 4 days.

I'm not withdrawing it right now, partially because I want to see if there's actually going to be people wasting their time to quorum-raid this, as has been suggested elsewhere and as was attempted on the Condemn.

Once that's out of the way, it'll be a case of withdrawing if something I think is genuinely useful ends up in queue. A fash-bashing offensive liberation, something like that I'd happily get my bill out of queue for. Or if TCB tell me they don't want it up, but that would require a huge shift in view based on the conversations I've been having with them since writing this bill. Pretty much everyone I've spoken to there wants it up, so right now I'm inclined to let it go up.

[Alcala-Cordel]

I wasn't expecting this proposal to reach quorum, but it's cool and good to see it has. To all those who want me to withdraw my approval: I will not. Let's pass this thing!

[Kazakhstan 3]

I don't know what Kavagrad is talking about. To be clear I believe everything i've said whole heartedly. As for the "criticisms" I have received they where pointless in shaping an already perfect proposal, unlike this completely irrelevant proposal.