French Politics Thread I: Borne to be wild

[Madrinpoor]

Hello! Here is where we can talk about French politics in both English and French! This is no flaming, only civil discussion.

Bonjour! Voici où nous pouvons parler de la politique française en anglais et en français! Ce n'est pas une discussion enflammée, seulement civile.

*Only English speakers, turn on automatic google translate from French-English

*Seuls les amis francophones, basculer la traduction automatique de Google vers l'anglais

[Kilobugya]

Well hi there. I'm French and member of PCF. And very worried about politics here, between the raise of extreme-right thesis everywhere, the misshandling of the pandemics from Macron, the disastrous social situation we are in, and the methodical disbanding of public services and social systems.

And also the state of extreme division of the left, which doesn't give us any real hope of victory in the coming elections, while on many topics (investing in education, healthcare, public transports, social housing; raising minimal wage and protecting workers; increasing tax on the rich; defending public services; ...) we actually have a majority of the population with us.

[Madrinpoor]

Well hi there. I'm French and member of PCF. And very worried about politics here, between the raise of extreme-right thesis everywhere, the misshandling of the pandemics from Macron, the disastrous social situation we are in, and the methodical disbanding of public services and social systems.

And also the state of extreme division of the left, which doesn't give us any real hope of victory in the coming elections, while on many topics (investing in education, healthcare, public transports, social housing; raising minimal wage and protecting workers; increasing tax on the rich; defending public services; ...) we actually have a majority of the population with us.

Are you a yellow vest?

[Sengoku Americas]

Well hi there. I'm French and member of PCF. And very worried about politics here, between the raise of extreme-right thesis everywhere, the misshandling of the pandemics from Macron, the disastrous social situation we are in, and the methodical disbanding of public services and social systems.

And also the state of extreme division of the left, which doesn't give us any real hope of victory in the coming elections, while on many topics (investing in education, healthcare, public transports, social housing; raising minimal wage and protecting workers; increasing tax on the rich; defending public services; ...) we actually have a majority of the population with us.

Can I ask what is the general response on the poor vaccination campaigns?

[Kilobugya]

Are you a yellow vest?

Let's say I'm sympathetic to their plea and suffering, I agree with many of their demand (such as more direct democracy and more taxation of the rich) and I did participate in some of the protests, but I'm not exactly one of them. I'm a communist.

[Kilobugya]

Can I ask what is the general response on the poor vaccination campaigns?

From what I can tell, overall it's mostly some mix of resigned shrugging, bitter-sweet laughing and distrust of everything coming from the government, and hope it'll still more or less work out due to the dedication of medical workers.

[Ancapimania]

Are you a yellow vest?

Let's say I'm sympathetic to their plea and suffering, I agree with many of their demand (such as more direct democracy and more taxation of the rich) and I did participate in some of the protests, but I'm not exactly one of them. I'm a communist.

Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies

[Sengoku Americas]

Let's say I'm sympathetic to their plea and suffering, I agree with many of their demand (such as more direct democracy and more taxation of the rich) and I did participate in some of the protests, but I'm not exactly one of them. I'm a communist.

Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies

There are varieties of leftism beyond Marxist-Leninism and Stalinism.

[Nakena]

What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?

[Kilobugya]

Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies

I definitely don't support stalinism. The communist ideal has nothing to do with that, and the variety of socialism I support before reaching communism is a democratic, respectful of individual rights and freedoms, one.

[Madrinpoor]

What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?

I think it should have happened long ago. Their toxic ideas are poisoning France. Of course, I am a globalist Macronite. I wonder what farther right people think about this.

[Nakena]

What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?

I think it should have happened long ago. Their toxic ideas are poisoning France. Of course, I am a globalist Macronite. I wonder what farther right people think about this.

I mean its at least there was that group and you knew what they stood for and where they were. So now there will be like maybe 2-3 different groups and probably at least one of them will be more radical. So... it may be whack a mole.

May not have been the best idea in a hindsight.

[Ancapimania]

Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies

I definitely don't support stalinism. The communist ideal has nothing to do with that, and the variety of socialism I support before reaching communism is a democratic, respectful of individual rights and freedoms, one.

Every form of leftist are virtually the same

[Kilobugya]

What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?

Should have been done a long time ago - having shitty political ideas isn't a crime, but being bullies and actively endangering the life of people is.

[Madrinpoor]

I definitely don't support stalinism. The communist ideal has nothing to do with that, and the variety of socialism I support before reaching communism is a democratic, respectful of individual rights and freedoms, one.

Every form of leftist are virtually the same

Not really...for instance, China and the Soviets hated each other. Both leftists.

[Ancapimania]

Every form of leftist are virtually the same

Not really...for instance, China and the Soviets hated each other. Both leftists.

But they support the same policies,unlike the right wingers

[Madrinpoor]

Not really...for instance, China and the Soviets hated each other. Both leftists.

But they support the same policies,unlike the right wingers

I would recommend reading "The Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek. Even if you disagree with its individualist politics, it is quite interesting to read as it explains how collectivism, both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other. The Communists and Fascists saw each other as possible recruits. Benito Mussolini was a socialist at first. Their policies are not that different. There is even a speech where Hitler stated that Marxism and Nazism were not so different from each other.

[Ancapimania]

But they support the same policies,unlike the right wingers

I would recommend reading "The Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek. Even if you disagree with its individualist politics, it is quite interesting to read as it explains how collectivism, both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other. The Communists and Fascists saw each other as possible recruits. Benito Mussolini was a socialist at first. Their policies are not that different. There is even a speech where Hitler stated that Marxism and Nazism were not so different from each other.

Yet you don't include the lib right! And also nazism is authcenter while stuff like monarchys kingdoms and similar ideologies are far right.Also here is a little fact,the CCP and North Korea are far right,not far left because of state capitalism

[Kilobugya]

both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other

Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.

[Madrinpoor]

I would recommend reading "The Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek. Even if you disagree with its individualist politics, it is quite interesting to read as it explains how collectivism, both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other. The Communists and Fascists saw each other as possible recruits. Benito Mussolini was a socialist at first. Their policies are not that different. There is even a speech where Hitler stated that Marxism and Nazism were not so different from each other.

Yet you don't include the lib right! And also nazism is authcenter while stuff like monarchys kingdoms and similar ideologies are far right.Also here is a little fact,the CCP and North Korea are far right,not far left because of state capitalism

Yes, I know that. Also the lib right is individualist, which I said. Nazism is economically sort of center, or it appears that way on the political compass, just because it is syncretic and has both right and left wing economic views. Socially they are extremely conservative, like Stalinism. The CCP morphed from syncretic communism, almost like the slightly-more-left version of Nazism to becoming an apolitical dictatorship, as did the DPRK. When you have absolute power you rarely are concerned with staying true to an ideology or not, but more with holding on to power.

[Madrinpoor]

both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other

Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.

There are multiple sides to each ideology. We are not talking about social differences, which Fascism and Communism have in abundance. But economically they are very similar systems, with shared policies. The ideals of them are different, but not the practical aspects.

[Ancapimania]

both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other

Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.

Did you read that all? Learn your facts because you are wrong,nations like italy and Germany were more left wing than spain,Soviet union and the CCP

[Madrinpoor]

Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.

Did you read that all? Learn your facts because you are wrong,nations like italy and Germany were more left wing than spain,Soviet union and the CCP

Not necessarily...the Soviet Union was quite very left wing. The CCP under Mao was also very left wing. Deng Xiaoping changed it to become more apolitical and less left wing. Republican Spain I have not studied, but Franco was a moderate fascist compared to Mussolini or Hitler.

[Arisyan]

ahh, the smell of a fresh new thread. Maybe a little early for the French political season, but ill take it.

Personally, I have pretty much equal resentment for both Macron and Le Pen, so when a runoff between them occurs in 2022 (unless a major scandal rocks either candidate), I would reluctantly abstain from the election. I won't give Macron the benefit of getting my vote just because his opponent is slightly more bad than him. In the first round, my support would go to La France Insoumise (roughly translates to "France Unbowed"), which is oddly enough more left-wing than the actual communist party. Strange.

[Ancapimania]

Did you read that all? Learn your facts because you are wrong,nations like italy and Germany were more left wing than spain,Soviet union and the CCP

Not necessarily...the Soviet Union was quite very left wing. The CCP under Mao was also very left wing. Deng Xiaoping changed it to become more apolitical and less left wing. Republican Spain I have not studied, but Franco was a moderate fascist compared to Mussolini or Hitler.

CCP and the Soviet union were/are state capitalist which is right wing,Spain well,they were center-left