Corporal Punishment

[Zul-ar]

It's been a couple months since the previous thread, so why not revive it?

For the purposes of this thread, corporal punishment encompasses all types of physical punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light, as well as non-physical forms of punishment that are cruel and degrading. It also may include forcing a child someone to consume unpleasant substances such as soap, hot sauce, or hot pepper. For this discussion, we are addressing corporal punishment in the context of being used on a minor.

In the U.S., corporal punishment is still lawful in the home in all states, and legal provisions against violence and abuse are not interpreted as prohibiting all corporal punishment, like spanking, according to the Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children.

In addition, corporal punishment is still legal in private schools in every U.S. state except New Jersey and Iowa, legal in public schools in 19 states.

In blue states corporal punishment in public schools is prohibited,
In red states it is permitted.
For further information on the legality of corporal punishment, I recommend this site.

Not only is it legal, but a poll from 2013 and one from 2014 both show that the public approves of corporal punishment, even though research shows that it has a negative effect on the mental health of children, and increases likeliness of criminal involvement.

So, NSG, what is your opinion on corporal punishment? Should it be used? Should it be legal?

It is my personal opinion that corporal punishment should be illegal and never used, based on the negative effects it has on the mental health of children.

[Sundiata]

It's abuse.

[The Black Forrest]

Well? There are cases where corporal punishment worked. Let’s just say I had it happen in Catholic school and leave the story at that. Looking back; would reasoning and other forms of punishment work on me? Not really. I once had punishment detail working weekends at the nunnery for months. It didn’t detour me.

Was it right? It was a different time and different views.

Have I ever used it on my kid? Not once.

[Necroghastia]

Assault doesn't become okay when it's on a minor you're in charge of.

[My Political Fantasy]

Clearly violates the NAP.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Corporal Punishment is efficient and effective, and should be promoted to Sergeant.

[Kowani]

why do we have to do this again

[Necroghastia]

why do we have to do this again

i mean it doesn't get more relevant to the topic than beating a dead horse

[Zul-ar]

Well? There are cases where corporal punishment worked. Let’s just say I had it happen in Catholic school and leave the story at that. Looking back; would reasoning and other forms of punishment work on me? Not really. I once had punishment detail working weekends at the nunnery for months. It didn’t detour me.

Was it right? It was a different time and different views.

Have I ever used it on my kid? Not once.

Corporal punishment can be very effective short term: fear is a good deterrent. It may also be effective in small doses on small children (I.e. toddlers).

But hitting your children does not teach them why their actions was wrong. It will also decrease in effectiveness over time. I don't think short-term obedience is worth long-term mental health issues. If your child is unruly to the point you cannot handle them without resorting to violence, they probably need help you are incapable of giving them, and I would recommend seeking out a place that can.

My youngest brother has autism. He cannot take care of himself, he does not understand right from wrong. He can be a danger to himself or others. My mother never hit my brother, but she would yell at him, and when necessary, restrain him. When he got so old that it was incredibly difficult to take care of him, and I would even get bruises and bloody noses from accidents in his fits, she realized that we could not take care of him.

So, she sent him to a place that could. It's pricey, but they provide the best care possible. It's because of my experiences that I am unsympathetic to parents who hit their kids. If we could manage so many years, so can you. There's always another option, there is no excuse to inflict corporal punishment on your children.

[The Black Forrest]

why do we have to do this again

Beating a dead horse is a speciality of NSG.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It's great if you want children to understand violence is a way to make other people comply with what they want.

[Disgraces]

Yes.

[Ethel mermania]

I wonder if we can set up a test and administer electro shock treatment, a form of corporal punishment, to anyone who creates another corporal punishment thread. We can then see how many of these we get and determine if corporal punishment works once and for all.

[Zul-ar]

why do we have to do this again

i mean it doesn't get more relevant to the topic than beating a dead horse

I have a right to beat this dead horse all I want, thank you very much.

[Kilobugya]

It definitely shouldn't be legal and shouldn't be used. It's barbaric, cruel, and has many documented negative long-term and short-term consequence on the victim. You don't "educate" by voluntarily inflicting pain, especially not on someone as vulnerable and fragile as a child. Never. You educate by explaining, by showing the example, by understanding the viewpoint of the child and how to change it from within. Yes, it requires more work, more creativity. But if you're not ready to do that, don't become a parent or a teacher.

[The New California Republic]

Giving children the message that violence is the way to deal with problems isn't really a good thing...

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

It's been a couple months since the previous thread, so why not revive it?

For the purposes of this thread, corporal punishment encompasses all types of physical punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light, as well as non-physical forms of punishment that are cruel and degrading. It also may include forcing a child to consume unpleasant substances such as soap, hot sauce, or hot pepper.

You just defined corporal punishment in a way which applies to everyone, then tossed the unpleasant substances in, only for children.

One could conclude that ONLY the unpleasant substances should be used on children, and separately we're supposed to discuss corporal punishment used on adults.

On adults, after conviction at trial: possibly. It may be the only alternative to Solitary to add further punishment for prisoners who commit further offenses in prison. Prisoners use it on each other, suggesting that in some cases it has coercive power, and observation of prison violence may allow us to rank or characterize prisoners according to how much a certain amount of pain affects them. Still, in calibrated amounts and degree, isolation/solitary is preferred to deliberate pain.

On children, no, absolutely not. Teachers, doctors etc should be mandatory reporters, as should other adult family members witness to violence against children, and child abusers should be punished in whatever way least affects the child. Generally this will be parole conditions, for instance limited consumption of alcohol.

Threatening a child with violence is also not OK, though there's a fuzzy border with things like "if you dress like that you might get raped" or other threats of consequences beyond the adult's control. It could be frightening to the child for good reason.

[Disgraces]

Giving children the message that violence is the way to deal with problems isn't really a good thing...

I didn't get that message.

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

My parents used to hit me. I don't really know why but that was their go-to punishment for just about anything, so I've been more or less desensitized to it. I think that sometimes a child deserves to be spanked, but I most certainly wouldn't do it as much as my parents did. As I've grown older I've started to understand why they would want to hit me, but I still don't think they should have. Instead of trying to teach me why what I was doing was wrong, they just hit and yelled at me to not do it again, which didn't help any because it just convinced me that they were tyrannical parents. They were trying to do the right thing but they ended up just hurting me in more ways than one. I have tinnitus because my mom would tug on my ear lobe really hard, so hard that I would hear snapping noises in my ear. I have serious trust issues with most people because I couldn't even trust my parents enough not to do something to me if I told them anything, really.
I find it kind of funny how my parents don't hit my younger siblings and they act pretty similarly as I did when I was younger. I guess I'll just have to live with being the guinea pig of a child.
In conclusion, private corporal punishment is not usually ok, imo. All it does is create more pain for everyone involved and takes away from the lesson that a parent or authority figure may be trying to teach. "Don't hit your brother!" *hits child with full force*

[Romextly]

I feel that there should be some type of corporal punishments, as I am seeing students more disrespectful to teachers, but no consistent attacks. All cases should be reviewed and teachers properly trained. However,v it ould still be the teachers choice

[Zul-ar]

Giving children the message that violence is the way to deal with problems isn't really a good thing...

I didn't get that message.

You specifically not getting that message means nothing in the broader scope of things, or against the evidence of studies.

I think that sometimes a child deserves to be spanked, but I most certainly wouldn't do it as much as my parents did.

At what point is a child deserving of physical abuse?

[Necroghastia]

Giving children the message that violence is the way to deal with problems isn't really a good thing...

I didn't get that message.

I don't see what else seeing corporal punishment as an acceptable recourse ultimately boils down to.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I feel that there should be some type of corporal punishments, as I am seeing students more disrespectful to teachers, but no consistent attacks. All cases should be reviewed and teachers properly trained. However,v it ould still be the teachers choice

Opt in by each (and both) parents, or else I'd give them the right to sue the teacher/school. It's simply unacceptable that a parent should have to choose between a public school where their child might get hit by teachers, and private or home schooling. That is not a free choice.

[The Federal Government of Iowa]

I didn't get that message.

You specifically not getting that message means nothing in the broader scope of things, or against the evidence of studies.

I think that sometimes a child deserves to be spanked, but I most certainly wouldn't do it as much as my parents did.

At what point is a child deserving of physical abuse?

It's not physical abuse if it's not constant. I think it's only deserved in extreme cases, where the kid actually does something awful. What people consider awful is up for debate, however, so I find that it wouldn't be super constructive to mention mine here.

[Romextly]

I feel that there should be some type of corporal punishments, as I am seeing students more disrespectful to teachers, but no consistent attacks. All cases should be reviewed and teachers properly trained. However,v it ould still be the teachers choice

Opt in by each (and both) parents, or else I'd give them the right to sue the teacher/school. It's simply unacceptable that a parent should have to choose between a public school where their child might get hit by teachers, and private or home schooling. That is not a free choice.

I don't believe much teachers would use it anyways. It would just be an option for more serious offenses.