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1812: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-DEAD]

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The Imperial Warglorian Empire
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8104
Founded: Oct 10, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

WIP

Postby The Imperial Warglorian Empire » Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:14 pm

Full Nation Name: Royaume de France (Kingdom of France)
Majority/Official Culture : French
Territorial Core: Modern French territory, Tunisian Coast, Alegeria northern coast, East Madgascar Coast, this pink stuff (minus the Pondichery region), West Bengal, Bangladesh, the Indian coastal territories between West Bengal and the other eastern French Indian colonies, those small islands above Madagascar, New South Wales
Territorial Claim: India, North and West Africa, Sardinia, Northern Italy, Canada, Louisiana, The Caribbean, Madagascar, all Benelux territories up to the Rhine, The British Isles (as a friendly non-Jacobin government), the Netherlands (as a client state), Australia
Capital City: Paris
Population: 40,171,000
-30 million (Continental France)
-2.9 million (French North Africa)
-8 million (French India)

Government Type: Bicameral Constitutional Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies: Militant, Imperialist, Progressive
Government Focus: The government focuses on both expanding France's colonial holding abroad, as well as helping further develop and change the social & political cultures of France, as the divide between the Aristocracy and the Lower Class are still decently prevalent. A gentle balance must be formed in order to keep the delicate Constitutional Order that had been developed in the nation in the aftermath of the Constitutional Revolution.
Head of State: King Louis XVI (Louis Joseph Xavier, Duke of Burgundy)
Head of Government: Prime Minister Antoine Barnave
Government Description: There are three branches, the King's Cabinet (Executive), the Royal Parliament (Bicameral) and the Judiciary. The King's Cabinet, officially, is made up of Royal Ministers appointed by the King to carry out the will of the National Assembly. The Royal Parliament, meanwhile, is a bicameral Legislature partly inspired by both the British Parliamentary and American Legislatures: with an upper chamber (Senate) and a lower chamber (National Assembly). Due to the unique balance between aristocracy and commoners, a compromise was reached whereupon the Senate would be made up of nobles from the aristocracy and the National Assembly would be made up of deputies (representing a certain geographic area and part of the population) elected by the people. The King has a suspensive veto with which he can use to void any legislation passing through Parliament; unless 2/3rds of both the Senate and the National Assembly vote to overturn said veto.

The National Assembly is currently controlled by three factions: the Girondins on the left desiring the abolition of the monarchy in favour of a fully republican system. The Ultra-Royalists (known by other names, including the Phillipians from the first official King of France and the Septemberists based on the September Revolt), who broadly desire a return to the Absolute Monarchy (though some factions vary concerning the retaining of less-radical reformations). And finally, the Burgundian Constitutionalist Party in the middle, which support the Constitutional government under the current regime.

Majority/State Religion: Roman Catholicism
Religious Description: Exactly as stated

Economic Ideologies: Capitalism
Major Production: Wheat, corn, meat, wine, iron and coal
Economic Description: Due to the more liberal based reforms of both the government and economy, a more prevalent and competitive free market has been developed. Furthermore, the government has taken a much more active role concerning funding public projects such as state-funded hospitals and educational centres. The latter, under the watchful eye of Louis-Auguste, has especially seen rapid reform, creating top-quality universities and government-funded schools free for the peasantry to attend.

Development: Industrialising
Development Description: A competitive free market, as well as recent developments abroad, has allowed France to keep up technologically with her neighbours.

Army Description: The Armée Royale in Europe is a professional fighting force composed of approximately 150,000 veteran soldiers. However, due to a modified form of Levée en masse (a doctrine adopted by Louis XVI earlier in his reign who saw it as a, though harsh idea, one with much potential), France can call upon over a million more men at a moments notice to fight in its army. Unlike the previous incarnation of the Royal Army as well as the AR in its early days, which was mostly dominated by members of the aristocracy, through the efforts of reform-minded individuals like Napoleon Bonaparte, the army has become much more meritocratic. One especially notable part of France's Army is its cadre of talented generals and marshalls, many of them handpicked by Grand Marshall Bonaparte himself. Another is the Army's usage of a Staff Corps, something established in the aftermath of the Constitutional Revolution from the insistence of Louis XVI and other like-minded military leaders.

Other parts of the Empire maintain their own local armies which hold not just European soldiers but also a large number of soldiers recruited from the local populace. Most notable of these is the Armée de l'Inde (Army of India) which has a standing force of 80,000 professionally trained Indian soldiers stationed there, the largest of any of the French colonial armies. Due to the rather progressive stance France has on racial equality, it is not uncommon to see locals manage to rise into positions of higher rank within these armed forces.

A rather notable part of the Armée Royale, however, is the "Garde du Roi," an elite fighting force of 10,000 men completely and utterly loyal only to the King. With its own cavalry, light infantry and artillery, the Garde du Roi is a fully self-sufficient and mobile force, filled with veterans. Due to the September Revolt, Louis XVI grew concerned at how much of the aristocratic officer corps had rebelled, siding with the Ultra-Royalists rather than the king himself. Therefore, not only is the Garde du Roi a "private army" that the King can rely on, but because it's filled with veterans soldiers, members of the Garde (in times of emergency) can be used as NCOs and be spread out across the rest of the regular army in case of another mass insurrection by officers occurs.

Army Weakness: The army remains somewhat divided ever since the Royalist Revolt, as despite the far more meritocratic-based reforms set up by Marshall Bonaparte, there are still rather heated tensions between the aristocratic officers and lower class officers within the Army. This may lead to a more disunited spirit, one which may jeopardize military operations in the future, and often what keeps them from going at each other's throats is the charisma of France's higher ranking (and generally more sensible) commanders.
Naval Description: The French Navy is like most other navies of the era, filled with both large 100 gun ships-of-the-line as well as smaller frigates, sloops and brings. The Navy is constantly expanding and is in fact a primary focus by the French government at the moment as it attempts to catch up with its main rival, Jacobin Britain. There are, however, currently two main camps of thought within the French Navy: those who desire a pursuit of a conventional large navy composed of ships-of-the-line that may face other rivals on the open seas in conventional warfare (nicknamed the "Grands Artilleurs"). And those who say that it's impossible to catch up with Britain when it comes to their navy, and so they ought to focus on creating a fleet of small merchant raiders, that'll be used to speedily spread across the globe and raid shipping to starve out their enemies (named "Petits Coureurs").
Naval Weakness: Though relatively large, it is not staffed by a large cadre of experienced naval officers, as France lacks such a maritime tradition and has been disregarding the infrastructure to do so.
Further Military Description:

National Goals : The rebuilding of France's global empire, the spreading of the Constitutional Revolution to other parts of the world
National Issues : The ending of Britain as an economic and military rival, tensions between the aristocracy and the meritocratic lower class officials
National Figures of Interest:
  • Napoleon Bonaparte (Grand Marshal of France, Grand Master of Artillery)
  • Arthur Wellesley (General of His Majesty's Armed Forces in Exile)
  • Louis-Auguste (Brother of Louis XVI, Minister of Public Instruction & Worship)
  • Marie Antoinette (Royal Governess of Guelma)
  • Joseph Fouché (Minister of Police and Head of the Girondins Party's Radical Sect)
  • Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord (Minister of Foreign Affairs)
  • Jean-de-Dieu Soult (Marshal of France, Head of Burgundian Revolutionary Movement)
  • Georges Danton (Head of Girondins Party)
National Ambition/Aspirations : To create an empire dominant on the world stage, while forming a nation based on true progressive and liberal ideals while still retaining the conservative aspects of a monarchy.

History: Louis, Duke of Burgundy, doesn't die in a freak rough play accident with his friends, which leads to him becoming king instead of Louis "Citizen Capet, cut my head off" Auguste. Him, being a much more kind-hearted soul than his brother (and frankly more sociable and brighter in that regard), takes much more care concerning the debacles facing his kingdom. For one, he decides to restrict military support to the American Revolutionaries, mostly sending only weapons, though compensating by sending a large number of military advisors.

Due to, y'know, walking along the streets of Paris once in a while, his own study of France's economic and developmental situation, and help from a good friend of his in the military Napoleon Bonaparte (who won quite a decent amount of fame for himself with his service in the French intervention in the German Revolutionary Wars), Louis XVI realises that the lower classes of France are, frankly, in a terrible situation.

Louis XVI constantly attempted to bring about major reform, though was constantly blocked in the Estates-General by his fellow aristocrats and the clergy, though earning praise from the Third Estate who saw him as on their side. Rumours began to circulate that Louis XVI was, in fact, being held hostage by members of the aristocracy who hoped to stop widespread reform. Motivated by this, as well as the frankly minimal amount of progress being made, the citizens of France decided to rise up, majorly kickstarted when a mob stormed the Bastille prison.

Rather than attempting to majorly suppress the revolt, Louis XVI instead travelled to Paris himself upon hearing the news, guessing (correctly) that the crowd wasn't actually anti-him. It was then that Louis XVI met with the National Assembly, with who he then began negotiations. It was there in Paris that he realised exactly how much of the general population did, in fact, support him, and simply wanted a betterment of their situation. After many weeks of talk, and the arrival of some American diplomats, Louis XVI and the other leaders of the Paris Revolt were able to reach an agreement and draft a new constitution that transformed the Absolute Monarchy into a Constitutional one, coming to be known as the "Constitutional Revolution."

Yet not all were happy with this arrangement and a broad coalition of anti-Monarchists, led predominantly by one Maximilien Robespierre and his Jacobins, would form a Republican Coalition, desiring a dissolution of the monarchy and the establishment of a full republic. After being constantly blocked in the National Assembly by those that would be called the "Constitutionalists" (people who supported the Constitutional Monarchy), the Republican Coalition would rise up in a general revolt and attempt to seize power. This led to the French Civil War in 1791, where the Constitutionalists would gain the upper hand due to retaining the loyalty of the majority of the armed forces as well as holding multiple talented military leaders, such as Lafayette, Berthier and Bonaparte.

The Jacobins, who mostly dominated the Republican Coalition, would also become more and more radical as the civil war progressed, executing people (both aristocracy and commoners) en masse in what would be called the "Jacobin Terror." This would disgust many more moderate members of the coalition, leading to the moderate Republicans, led by Georges Danton, to offer defection to the Constitutionalists in return for positions in government and more concessions. Louis XVI would agree, and so the moderates would turn on their radical brothers. And so the Civil War would end swiftly in 1796, with Robespierre being executed and the remnants of the Jacobins fleeing, most notably Jacques Roux leading a core of particularly fanatical Jacobins to Britain.

After this, Louis and the National Assembly would work to reform the country, overhauling various institutions of the nation and overall making the nation better for the common man. Yet again, Louis and the NA would face opposition from particularly conservative segments of the aristocracy. This would come to ahead when, in 1801, Louis XVI would fall into a deep depression upon the death of his wife. Conservative elements of the aristocracy would take this opportunity to subvert Louis (as the aristocracy still held a relative stranglehold over power in the nation, since this is in the Constitutional Kingdom's early years and the democratic institutions of the nation haven't quite taken solid hold yet). This would notably include sending (exiling) Louis' longtime ally General Napoleon Bonaparte on an expedition to destroy Barbary Corsairs on the coast of Algeria, an expedition expected to fail as Napoleon was given a substandard force against the still formidably strong remnants of the Islamic Caliphates in the area. Yet nonetheless, Napoleon would overcome the supposed impossible and within two years would conquer much of the North African coast to add to the French Colonial Empire.

By this time Louis XVI would recover from his deep depression and, realising what'd been happening while he'd been in such a state, attempt to crack down on this subversion, working closely with the National Assembly to try and further subvert the powers of the radical aristocracy. Seeing this as a blatant attack and fearing that only more drastic change would come, the radical aristocracy (later named the Ultra-Royalists) would attempt a coup in what would be called the "September Revolt," where elements of the upper-class aristocracy would rise up and attempt to overthrow both Louis XVI and the National Assembly in order to replace it with an absolute monarchy under Louis XVI's brother, Louis-Auguste. While Louis-Auguste claimed to be the leader of the revolt, it was really the behind-the-scene machinations of Marie Antoinette who was behind everything.

Yet the Septemberist Ultra-Royalists would find the plan backfire as they didn't account for a lack of support from the people. When aristocratic officers in the army would call for their regiments to march on Paris, those same regiments would refuse and on occasion even turn on their superiors. When troops that were loyal to the Ultra-Royalists attempted to march, they'd find their paths blocked by mobs of angry civilians. They may have had the resources and the funds, but they lacked the popular support of the people. Louis XVI, knowing his brother and knowing that he couldn't possibly have done all that by his own prerogative, offered him amnesty and much of the aristocracy amnesty. Louis-Auguste eagerly accepted.

After only a month and a few brief skirmishes, the revolt was crushed. Many members of the aristocracy were either executed for treason or heavily taxed. Marie Antoinette herself, being of foreign nobility, was instead simply exiled to a small settlement in the recently conquered territory of Algeria.

And so the Revolt was crushed, and Louis and the NA now continues to reform the country, though now more careful as they must keep the balance between the still sour aristocracy and the increasingly angry lower class.

Other notable differences include French forces, though completely losing out in America (leading to the loss of her the Caribbean and mainland American territories), is able to succeed in India and even manages to take Calcutta from the British. A rebellion from the local Indian Princedoms during the French Civil War leads to the Louis XVI (with little other choice) sending the British Royalist Army-in-exile to help defend French India. The effectiveness of the British Royalist Expedition leads to the French Indian territories not only being saved but also being expanded as they're able to bring several Indian princes to heel and submit to French rule.
RP Sample: I can't believe I have to say this, but I do: I do not in any way support the Nazi ideology nor do I have pro-Nazi sympathies relating to racial beliefs or anything of the short. I was simply RPing the characters I was playing in a way I thought accurate to their personalities reflected in the "The New Order: Last Days Of Europe" HOI IV mod.

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)
Last edited by The Imperial Warglorian Empire on Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:41 am, edited 19 times in total.
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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:09 am

Madrinpoor wrote:Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)


#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

I will have to reject the app as it is right now.

The concept itself might work within a specific timeframe, but the app is going to answer a few important questions about how it was formed, and how it survived, considering that it would be in the middle of an area that is a target of the spice fervor of both the European and Asian colonial powers, especially colonial powers already have a strong presence in the area. The Barbary States and their pirates prospered mostly under the protection of the Ottoman Empire, their ability to pirate and importance declined together with that of the Ottomans, and they also survived because of the fact that the Barbary coast was difficult to conquer and control. At this point in IRL, the Barbary pirates were already hunted and compelled to stop attacking shipping by various states.

The app simply doesn't answer just issues. You have to clear point of divergence, and you make no clear reference as to how the various states around the area turned to piracy to begin with, and how the sultanates themselves became pirate states. You're also simply mentioning regions and islands as states, without mentioning the real life sultanates of the area or what would have happened to them.

The military description is also far from sufficient. The army part might be passable, but if you want to be pirate states with a main focus on naval actions, you need more than "the navy is very strong". What kind of ships is it using, how advanced is their naval tech, tactics, and so on. Strong in comparison to what, as it would most likely be much weaker than the military fleets of nearby colonies, and so on.

And as for the goals, you need to like I said above explain why the nation turned to piracy especially when the danger of retribution from the colonial powers is quite strong.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Madrinpoor
Minister
 
Posts: 2255
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Madrinpoor » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:03 pm

Tracian Empire wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)


#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

I will have to reject the app as it is right now.

The concept itself might work within a specific timeframe, but the app is going to answer a few important questions about how it was formed, and how it survived, considering that it would be in the middle of an area that is a target of the spice fervor of both the European and Asian colonial powers, especially colonial powers already have a strong presence in the area. The Barbary States and their pirates prospered mostly under the protection of the Ottoman Empire, their ability to pirate and importance declined together with that of the Ottomans, and they also survived because of the fact that the Barbary coast was difficult to conquer and control. At this point in IRL, the Barbary pirates were already hunted and compelled to stop attacking shipping by various states.

The app simply doesn't answer just issues. You have to clear point of divergence, and you make no clear reference as to how the various states around the area turned to piracy to begin with, and how the sultanates themselves became pirate states. You're also simply mentioning regions and islands as states, without mentioning the real life sultanates of the area or what would have happened to them.

The military description is also far from sufficient. The army part might be passable, but if you want to be pirate states with a main focus on naval actions, you need more than "the navy is very strong". What kind of ships is it using, how advanced is their naval tech, tactics, and so on. Strong in comparison to what, as it would most likely be much weaker than the military fleets of nearby colonies, and so on.

And as for the goals, you need to like I said above explain why the nation turned to piracy especially when the danger of retribution from the colonial powers is quite strong.

...okay. I will fix things. Hey lower China/Vietnam, do you mind if I use you as protection?
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Madrinpoor
Minister
 
Posts: 2255
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Madrinpoor » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:05 pm

Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)
Majority/Official Culture : Malay
Territorial Core : Sumatra and Borneo's coastlines facing towards each other as well as surrounding islands. Kind of the coastline in between Java and Malay Peninsula. They operate (I will explain later) in Malacca, the Riau Islands, and all over the South China Sea near Indonesia and Malaysia.
Territorial Claim : Parts of Northwestern Java
Capital City : Each state has its own capital, but all meet in Palembang for the council, which decides trans-state issues.
Population: around 4-5 million

Government Type : Devolutionized Confederacy
Government Ideology/Policies : Okay. Finally. This nation is basically the Indian Ocean version of the Barbary States. There are six states, which each control different land as well as their own fleets. They raid ships coming through the Strait of Malacca and the rest of the South China Sea, as well as make attacks on other colonies that are not their own. Originally they were all different and independent states, which raided each other's boats and cities. In the 1780s, four of the states met in the city of Palembang, which was neutral at the time, to discuss forming a federation to protect each other from pirate raids and focus on the better targets, like that of the European ships. Eventually that number expanded to six and the Sumatran States Confederacy was born.
Government Focus : Piracy! They are pirates. They care about robbing ships and they are good at their job. Each state has a fleet run by a demilord, a very good pirate who also owns a stake of land and controls a government fleet. They go on raiding missions, usually for boats but occasionally even for towns. Often when they sack a town they might take it over too, and add it to their territory. The economy is based on this, but also some exports are produced. They live normal lives and do normal things, though their livelihoods are often based off of selling pirated goods or similar things, due to a vast majority of their population living on the coastline and in the big cities.
Head of State : Faisal of Bangka (There are technically six, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states.)
Head of Government : The six sultans of the states. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.
Government Description : I just described it above, which is not meant to be condescending but I have already explained, so I will copy and paste what I already wrote to remain consistent. There are technically six heads of state, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states. The six sultans are the Heads of Government. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.

Majority/State Religion : Islam
Religious Description : Majority Muslim, about 60%, but there are many Hindus and Christians and 30% Buddhist. One of the states, Meranti and Siak, is majority Buddhist.

Economic Ideologies : They are pirates. Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.
Major Production : Rice, as well as rubber, sugarcane, and other fruit. But most of their economy is piracy.
Economic Description : Copy and paste again.Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.

Development: Not very developed because it is a pirate confederacy. So...nonindustrialized.
Development Description : Because the government has not paid much thought towards developing the economy, instead focusing on their navy and piracy efforts, the economy is very agricultural and unlikely to industrialize soon. Technology is not advancing rapidly, and most of it comes south from China or East from India or is stolen.

Army Description : Not strong and quite small. No inter-confederacy army, really just each Sultan has his own army that he uses for protection, policing, and small-scale land expansion.
Army Weakness : Small, and not used often. Kind of self-explanatory.
Naval Description :The navy is very strong, and is mostly used for piracy efforts. Technology explanation:

- Junks, technology adopted from the Chinese and modified to be faster, stronger, and able to carry more men and treasure. They are used similar to clippers or ships-of-the-line in Europe. The grandest Junks, owned by powerful pirates, are decorated with carvings and gold inlay and intricate sails, with multiple levels of decks and cannons. The smaller Junks have plain decorations and are smaller. Junks are often able to hold their own against European ships as well as those belonging to other Asian nations. They have adopted cannons and other modern weaponry in order to compete with the europeans
- Dhows were originally developed in the Indian Ocean, and are small, sleek, and have one sail. They are used as cargo and trading ships, and can carry heavy loads despite their small size. Many fleets have packs of them that they use to carry equipment and treasure. Used less in smaller pirate fleets that mainly just 'strike and run', and more for large ships that spend years on the sea raiding ports and convoys, which need to carry more treasure.
- Lorchas are hybrids of Junks and European ships, with a European deck and a Junk sailing rig. They are formidable warships, and often make up a good amount of fleet composition.
- Semisdats are low slung and fast, and make up a lot of the pirate fleets. They have a deck and a cabin, with various space for storage. Most sailors on these sleep in barracks on the Junks or Lorchas, and use these solely for fighting. They are not good in fleet-to-fleet battles, being so small, but they are good for raiding merchant ships and lone military ships. Many have only one cannon, with some large ones having two and some small ones having no cannons.
- Atankenas are medium-sized ships used often for boarding, though they are also good for naval battles. The main distinguishing characteristics is the large wooden cover, which is essentially an elongated and tilted side wall. These ships are two decks or more, with the decks having cannons that shoot at the ships from far away, but these ships are mostly used for close fighting. They will pull into the ship next to them and pirates will board via the slanted walls, which also protect them from gunfire. Navigation is from a system of catwalks near the sails, above the slanted walls.
- Many other smaller variations of ships, similar to those used by barbary pirates, are also used in these fleets for various purposes.

Naval Weakness/Further Military Description : These fleets are massive, but very loosely controlled. If a coordinated naval assault. was ever to be needed, it would almost certainly fail due to how spread out these fleets are. Pirates will be gone with their fleet for months or years at a time, reporting into colonies only for supplies and updates with their Sultans.
Extra Further Military Description : Because the main purpose of these fleets are for piracy, there are few defenses of the state territories. However, the states are already very well protected. Because of the pirate's operation throughout Malacca and the South China Sea, launching a naval invasion would likely be a death sentence as pirates would attack the ships before they ever got close to the states. Because the whole area is controlled by the states, and there are few regional navies besides this one (unlike the Barbary Corsairs in the Mediterranean, which had to contend with Mediterranean Navies as well) there are pirates everywhere, but they cannot attack each other due to the Confederation. Disputes do occasionally arise, but the punishment for this is disenfranchisement, which means that the states basically disavow connection to that captain and the fleet and they are fair game for other pirates. The strait of Malacca's strategic importance also plays a role in the pirate's ability to draw in wealth from the trading vessels. They can contend with European colonists due to their technologically advanced fleet, and their location in one area, the far South China Sea, which restricts the possibility of other European fleets from ever taking much territory or, if they did, being able to use that territory without the pirates seizing their vessels. The states also hire privateers and independent pirates, or just conscript them. The privateers almost NEVER fight fleet-to-fleet unless they are caught up in a battle or VERY unlucky, but mainly raid and give a cut of their earnings to the states. If they cheat the cut they are executed and their ships/treasure confiscated.

National Goals : The focus of these states has always been piracy, and it likely always will be. The states survive on the loyalty of their subordinates, especially the pirates who rely on the protection from the states in order to keep from being hunted down and sunk.
National Issues : Well the very idea of the nation isn't very effective, because the sole purpose is to benefit the pirate Sultans and their other pirates. So...because the potential has kind of already been met since there isn't much of one...nothing? A larger fleet I guess, and expansion of operations into the Malay Peninsula and Java would be helpful, but those pesky colonizers...good for business with their trading ships but not with the territory they take.
National Figures of Interest : None really
National Ambition/Aspirations : I really have nothing to say here, because there is not necessarily a goal or aspiration for a society based on crime. Read Trevor Noah's biography, it explains. This sounds weird to people that haven't read it, but to those who have you likely get what I am talking about.

History :
Timeline
- Before 1780: Several different pirate states compete against each other for sea access when they could be fighting their targets. How inefficient.
- 1780: Four states; Bangka, Tanjung Jabung, Mempawah and Kayong, agree to a treaty and a confederation for their collective benefit.
- 1791: Meranti and Siak joins the confederacy
- 1802: Ketapang, originally many different smaller pirate city-states, are united under Arif. He joins the confederacy that same year.

Originally, the islands were home to many different nations and sultanates, as well as many different pirates. These pirates started out as individual enterprises, content with profiting off of the weak sultan's ineffective rule. However, one pirate, Atang of Jabua, who rose to prominence after kidnapping a Sultan for ransom, and soon amassed a giant fleet due to his experience at sailing and ability to draw loyalty, wanted to establish himself as more than just a pirate. He led his fleet to attack the city of Sungailiat, home to a small Sultan who ruled over a little kingdom of merchants and fishermen. The pirates invaded the town, but did not kill any civilians, they instead launched attacks on the treasury, palace, and other government buildings. Atang took control of the kingdom, and soon expanded to another one. By the time he had died, he expanded from a city-state into a sizeable Sultanate. His son, Totor, expanded further and used his established state to increase his wealth tremendously, investing some of it in infrastructure and similar projects, which soon benefited him with taxes. Eventually the state of Tanjung Jabung was established out of his territory. His son and Atang's grandson, Holmel, continued this expansion and Tanjung Jabung soon became a powerful and influential state. Other pirates saw this and established their own states, many of which were united into larger sultanates eventually.
RP Sample: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=497719&p=38404188#p38404188

A handy map
(https://i.imgur.com/27JLSCD.png)

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)


Anything else to add?
Last edited by Madrinpoor on Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MT City-state off the coast of Japan: Sumo wrestling, tech startups, Shintō mobs, gay marriage, Bōsōzuku, taiko drums, zokusha cars, neon signs, skyscrapers, Yakuza, internet, Christians, teen biker gangs, international treaties, inter-city canals, rooftop gardens, Samurai, Internet Explorer, canned beer, and a Shogun. 2002 C.E.
Yooper High Kingdom wrote:If I could describe Mandrinpoor with one word, it would be this: Slick.
Nevertopia wrote:Madrinpoor? More like madrinWEALTH be upon your family, may your days be happy and your burdens be light.

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User avatar
Deblar
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5205
Founded: Jan 28, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Deblar » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:11 pm

I’ll have an app completed soon

User avatar
Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:57 am

Deblar wrote:I’ll have an app completed soon

What area are you interested in?
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

User avatar
Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:58 am

Madrinpoor wrote:
Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)
Majority/Official Culture : Malay
Territorial Core : Sumatra and Borneo's coastlines facing towards each other as well as surrounding islands. Kind of the coastline in between Java and Malay Peninsula. They operate (I will explain later) in Malacca, the Riau Islands, and all over the South China Sea near Indonesia and Malaysia.
Territorial Claim : Parts of Northwestern Java
Capital City : Each state has its own capital, but all meet in Palembang for the council, which decides trans-state issues.
Population: around 4-5 million

Government Type : Devolutionized Confederacy
Government Ideology/Policies : Okay. Finally. This nation is basically the Indian Ocean version of the Barbary States. There are six states, which each control different land as well as their own fleets. They raid ships coming through the Strait of Malacca and the rest of the South China Sea, as well as make attacks on other colonies that are not their own. Originally they were all different and independent states, which raided each other's boats and cities. In the 1780s, four of the states met in the city of Palembang, which was neutral at the time, to discuss forming a federation to protect each other from pirate raids and focus on the better targets, like that of the European ships. Eventually that number expanded to six and the Sumatran States Confederacy was born.
Government Focus : Piracy! They are pirates. They care about robbing ships and they are good at their job. Each state has a fleet run by a demilord, a very good pirate who also owns a stake of land and controls a government fleet. They go on raiding missions, usually for boats but occasionally even for towns. Often when they sack a town they might take it over too, and add it to their territory. The economy is based on this, but also some exports are produced.
Head of State : Faisal of Bangka (There are technically six, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states.)
Head of Government : The six sultans of the states. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.
Government Description : I just described it. I will copy and paste what I already wrote. There are technically six heads of state, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states. The six sultans are the Heads of Government. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.

Majority/State Religion : Islam
Religious Description : Majority Muslim, about 60%, but there are many Hindus and Christians and 30% Buddhist. One of the states, Meranti and Siak, is majority Buddhist.

Economic Ideologies : They are pirates. Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.
Major Production : Rice, as well as rubber, sugarcane, and other fruit. But most of their economy is piracy.
Economic Description : Copy and paste again.Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.

Development: Not very developed because it is a pirate confederacy. So...nonindustrialized.
Development Description : Because the government has not paid much thought towards developing the economy, instead focusing on their navy and piracy efforts, the economy is very agricultural and unlikely to industrialize soon. Technology is not advancing rapidly, and most of it comes south from China or East from India or is stolen.

Army Description : Not strong and quite small. No inter-confederacy army, really just each Sultan has his own army that he uses for protection, policing, and small-scale land expansion.
Army Weakness : Small, and not used often. Kind of self-explanatory.
Naval Description : I have decided not to bold this so you can see that it was edited. The navy is very strong, and is mostly used for piracy efforts. Technology explanation:

- Junks, technology adopted from the Chinese and modified to be faster, stronger, and able to carry more men and treasure. They are used similar to clippers or ships-of-the-line in Europe. The grandest Junks, owned by powerful pirates, are decorated with carvings and gold inlay and intricate sails, with multiple levels of decks and cannons. The smaller Junks have plain decorations and are smaller. Junks are often able to hold their own against European ships as well as those belonging to other Asian nations. They have adopted cannons and other modern weaponry in order to compete with the europeans
- Dhows were originally developed in the Indian Ocean, and are small, sleek, and have one sail. They are used as cargo and trading ships, and can carry heavy loads despite their small size. Many fleets have packs of them that they use to carry equipment and treasure. Used less in smaller pirate fleets that mainly just 'strike and run', and more for large ships that spend years on the sea raiding ports and convoys, which need to carry more treasure.
- Lorchas are hybrids of Junks and European ships, with a European deck and a Junk sailing rig. They are formidable warships, and often make up a good amount of fleet composition.
- Semisdats are low slung and fast, and make up a lot of the pirate fleets. They have a deck and a cabin, with various space for storage. Most sailors on these sleep in barracks on the Junks or Lorchas, and use these solely for fighting. They are not good in fleet-to-fleet battles, being so small, but they are good for raiding merchant ships and lone military ships. Many have only one cannon, with some large ones having two and some small ones having no cannons.
- Atankenas are medium-sized ships used often for boarding, though they are also good for naval battles. The main distinguishing characteristics is the large wooden cover, which is essentially an elongated and tilted side wall. These ships are two decks or more, with the decks having cannons that shoot at the ships from far away, but these ships are mostly used for close fighting. They will pull into the ship next to them and pirates will board via the slanted walls, which also protect them from gunfire. Navigation is from a system of catwalks near the sails, above the slanted walls.
- Many other smaller variations of ships, similar to those used by barbary pirates, are also used in these fleets for various purposes.

Naval Weakness/Further Military Description : These fleets are massive, but very loosely controlled. If a coordinated naval assault. was ever to be needed, it would almost certainly fail due to how spread out these fleets are. Pirates will be gone with their fleet for months or years at a time, reporting into colonies only for supplies and updates with their Sultans. Because the main purpose of these fleets are for piracy, there are few defenses. However, the states are already very well protected. Because of the pirate's operation throughout Malacca and the South China Sea, launching a naval invasion would likely be a death sentence as pirates would attack the ships before they ever got close to the states. Because the whole area is controlled by the states, and there are few regional navies besides this one (unlike the Barbary Corsairs in the Mediterranean, which had to contend with Mediterranean Navies as well) there are pirates everywhere, but they cannot attack each other due to the Confederation. Disputes do occasionally arise, but the punishment for this is disenfranchisement, which means that the states basically disavow connection to that captain and the fleet and they are fair game for other pirates. The strait of Malacca's strategic importance also plays a role in the pirate's ability to draw in wealth from the trading vessels. They can contend with European colonists due to their technologically advanced fleet, and their location in one area, the far South China Sea, which restricts the possibility of other European fleets from ever taking much territory or, if they did, being able to use that territory without the pirates seizing their vessels.
Extra Further Military Description : The states also hire privateers and independent pirates, or just conscript them. The privateers almost NEVER fight fleet-to-fleet unless they are caught up in a battle or VERY unlucky, but mainly raid and give a cut of their earnings to the states. If they cheat the cut they are executed and their ships/treasure confiscated.

National Goals : The focus of these states has always been piracy, and it likely always will be. The states survive on the loyalty of their subordinates, especially the pirates who rely on the protection from the states in order to keep from being hunted down and sunk.
National Issues : Well the very idea of the nation isn't very effective, because the sole purpose is to benefit the pirate Sultans and their other pirates. So...because the potential has kind of already been met since there isn't much of one...nothing? A larger fleet I guess, and expansion of operations into the Malay Peninsula and Java would be helpful, but those pesky colonizers...good for business with their trading ships but not with the territory they take.
National Figures of Interest : None really
National Ambition/Aspirations : I really have nothing to say here.

History :
Timeline
- Before 1780: Several different pirate states compete against each other for sea access when they could be fighting their targets. How inefficient.
- 1780: Four states; Bangka, Tanjung Jabung, Mempawah and Kayong, agree to a treaty and a confederation for their collective benefit.
- 1791: Meranti and Siak joins the confederacy
- 1802: Ketapang, originally many different smaller pirate city-states, are united under Arif. He joins the confederacy that same year.

Originally, the islands were home to many different nations and sultanates, as well as many different pirates. These pirates started out as individual enterprises, content with profiting off of the weak sultan's ineffective rule. However, one pirate, Atang of Jabua, who rose to prominence after kidnapping a Sultan for ransom, and soon amassed a giant fleet due to his experience at sailing and ability to draw loyalty, wanted to establish himself as more than just a pirate. He led his fleet to attack the city of Sungailiat, home to a small Sultan who ruled over a little kingdom of merchants and fishermen. The pirates invaded the town, but did not kill any civilians, they instead launched attacks on the treasury, palace, and other government buildings. Atang took control of the kingdom, and soon expanded to another one. By the time he had died, he expanded from a city-state into a sizeable Sultanate. His son, Totor, expanded further and used his established state to increase his wealth tremendously, investing some of it in infrastructure and similar projects, which soon benefited him with taxes. Eventually the state of Tanjung Jabung was established out of his territory. His son and Atang's grandson, Holmel, continued this expansion and Tanjung Jabung soon became a powerful and influential state. Other pirates saw this and established their own states, many of which were united into larger sultanates eventually.
RP Sample: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=497719&p=38404188#p38404188

A handy map
(https://i.imgur.com/27JLSCD.png)

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)


Anything else to add?
I will be taking a look at this, but please fix the formatting too, most of the app shouldn't be bold
Last edited by Tracian Empire on Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

User avatar
Madrinpoor
Minister
 
Posts: 2255
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Madrinpoor » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:55 am

Tracian Empire wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:
Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)
Majority/Official Culture : Malay
Territorial Core : Sumatra and Borneo's coastlines facing towards each other as well as surrounding islands. Kind of the coastline in between Java and Malay Peninsula. They operate (I will explain later) in Malacca, the Riau Islands, and all over the South China Sea near Indonesia and Malaysia.
Territorial Claim : Parts of Northwestern Java
Capital City : Each state has its own capital, but all meet in Palembang for the council, which decides trans-state issues.
Population: around 4-5 million

Government Type : Devolutionized Confederacy
Government Ideology/Policies : Okay. Finally. This nation is basically the Indian Ocean version of the Barbary States. There are six states, which each control different land as well as their own fleets. They raid ships coming through the Strait of Malacca and the rest of the South China Sea, as well as make attacks on other colonies that are not their own. Originally they were all different and independent states, which raided each other's boats and cities. In the 1780s, four of the states met in the city of Palembang, which was neutral at the time, to discuss forming a federation to protect each other from pirate raids and focus on the better targets, like that of the European ships. Eventually that number expanded to six and the Sumatran States Confederacy was born.
Government Focus : Piracy! They are pirates. They care about robbing ships and they are good at their job. Each state has a fleet run by a demilord, a very good pirate who also owns a stake of land and controls a government fleet. They go on raiding missions, usually for boats but occasionally even for towns. Often when they sack a town they might take it over too, and add it to their territory. The economy is based on this, but also some exports are produced.
Head of State : Faisal of Bangka (There are technically six, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states.)
Head of Government : The six sultans of the states. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.
Government Description : I just described it. I will copy and paste what I already wrote. There are technically six heads of state, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states. The six sultans are the Heads of Government. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.

Majority/State Religion : Islam
Religious Description : Majority Muslim, about 60%, but there are many Hindus and Christians and 30% Buddhist. One of the states, Meranti and Siak, is majority Buddhist.

Economic Ideologies : They are pirates. Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.
Major Production : Rice, as well as rubber, sugarcane, and other fruit. But most of their economy is piracy.
Economic Description : Copy and paste again.Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.

Development: Not very developed because it is a pirate confederacy. So...nonindustrialized.
Development Description : Because the government has not paid much thought towards developing the economy, instead focusing on their navy and piracy efforts, the economy is very agricultural and unlikely to industrialize soon. Technology is not advancing rapidly, and most of it comes south from China or East from India or is stolen.

Army Description : Not strong and quite small. No inter-confederacy army, really just each Sultan has his own army that he uses for protection, policing, and small-scale land expansion.
Army Weakness : Small, and not used often. Kind of self-explanatory.
Naval Description : I have decided not to bold this so you can see that it was edited. The navy is very strong, and is mostly used for piracy efforts. Technology explanation:

- Junks, technology adopted from the Chinese and modified to be faster, stronger, and able to carry more men and treasure. They are used similar to clippers or ships-of-the-line in Europe. The grandest Junks, owned by powerful pirates, are decorated with carvings and gold inlay and intricate sails, with multiple levels of decks and cannons. The smaller Junks have plain decorations and are smaller. Junks are often able to hold their own against European ships as well as those belonging to other Asian nations. They have adopted cannons and other modern weaponry in order to compete with the europeans
- Dhows were originally developed in the Indian Ocean, and are small, sleek, and have one sail. They are used as cargo and trading ships, and can carry heavy loads despite their small size. Many fleets have packs of them that they use to carry equipment and treasure. Used less in smaller pirate fleets that mainly just 'strike and run', and more for large ships that spend years on the sea raiding ports and convoys, which need to carry more treasure.
- Lorchas are hybrids of Junks and European ships, with a European deck and a Junk sailing rig. They are formidable warships, and often make up a good amount of fleet composition.
- Semisdats are low slung and fast, and make up a lot of the pirate fleets. They have a deck and a cabin, with various space for storage. Most sailors on these sleep in barracks on the Junks or Lorchas, and use these solely for fighting. They are not good in fleet-to-fleet battles, being so small, but they are good for raiding merchant ships and lone military ships. Many have only one cannon, with some large ones having two and some small ones having no cannons.
- Atankenas are medium-sized ships used often for boarding, though they are also good for naval battles. The main distinguishing characteristics is the large wooden cover, which is essentially an elongated and tilted side wall. These ships are two decks or more, with the decks having cannons that shoot at the ships from far away, but these ships are mostly used for close fighting. They will pull into the ship next to them and pirates will board via the slanted walls, which also protect them from gunfire. Navigation is from a system of catwalks near the sails, above the slanted walls.
- Many other smaller variations of ships, similar to those used by barbary pirates, are also used in these fleets for various purposes.

Naval Weakness/Further Military Description : These fleets are massive, but very loosely controlled. If a coordinated naval assault. was ever to be needed, it would almost certainly fail due to how spread out these fleets are. Pirates will be gone with their fleet for months or years at a time, reporting into colonies only for supplies and updates with their Sultans. Because the main purpose of these fleets are for piracy, there are few defenses. However, the states are already very well protected. Because of the pirate's operation throughout Malacca and the South China Sea, launching a naval invasion would likely be a death sentence as pirates would attack the ships before they ever got close to the states. Because the whole area is controlled by the states, and there are few regional navies besides this one (unlike the Barbary Corsairs in the Mediterranean, which had to contend with Mediterranean Navies as well) there are pirates everywhere, but they cannot attack each other due to the Confederation. Disputes do occasionally arise, but the punishment for this is disenfranchisement, which means that the states basically disavow connection to that captain and the fleet and they are fair game for other pirates. The strait of Malacca's strategic importance also plays a role in the pirate's ability to draw in wealth from the trading vessels. They can contend with European colonists due to their technologically advanced fleet, and their location in one area, the far South China Sea, which restricts the possibility of other European fleets from ever taking much territory or, if they did, being able to use that territory without the pirates seizing their vessels.
Extra Further Military Description : The states also hire privateers and independent pirates, or just conscript them. The privateers almost NEVER fight fleet-to-fleet unless they are caught up in a battle or VERY unlucky, but mainly raid and give a cut of their earnings to the states. If they cheat the cut they are executed and their ships/treasure confiscated.

National Goals : The focus of these states has always been piracy, and it likely always will be. The states survive on the loyalty of their subordinates, especially the pirates who rely on the protection from the states in order to keep from being hunted down and sunk.
National Issues : Well the very idea of the nation isn't very effective, because the sole purpose is to benefit the pirate Sultans and their other pirates. So...because the potential has kind of already been met since there isn't much of one...nothing? A larger fleet I guess, and expansion of operations into the Malay Peninsula and Java would be helpful, but those pesky colonizers...good for business with their trading ships but not with the territory they take.
National Figures of Interest : None really
National Ambition/Aspirations : I really have nothing to say here.

History :
Timeline
- Before 1780: Several different pirate states compete against each other for sea access when they could be fighting their targets. How inefficient.
- 1780: Four states; Bangka, Tanjung Jabung, Mempawah and Kayong, agree to a treaty and a confederation for their collective benefit.
- 1791: Meranti and Siak joins the confederacy
- 1802: Ketapang, originally many different smaller pirate city-states, are united under Arif. He joins the confederacy that same year.

Originally, the islands were home to many different nations and sultanates, as well as many different pirates. These pirates started out as individual enterprises, content with profiting off of the weak sultan's ineffective rule. However, one pirate, Atang of Jabua, who rose to prominence after kidnapping a Sultan for ransom, and soon amassed a giant fleet due to his experience at sailing and ability to draw loyalty, wanted to establish himself as more than just a pirate. He led his fleet to attack the city of Sungailiat, home to a small Sultan who ruled over a little kingdom of merchants and fishermen. The pirates invaded the town, but did not kill any civilians, they instead launched attacks on the treasury, palace, and other government buildings. Atang took control of the kingdom, and soon expanded to another one. By the time he had died, he expanded from a city-state into a sizeable Sultanate. His son, Totor, expanded further and used his established state to increase his wealth tremendously, investing some of it in infrastructure and similar projects, which soon benefited him with taxes. Eventually the state of Tanjung Jabung was established out of his territory. His son and Atang's grandson, Holmel, continued this expansion and Tanjung Jabung soon became a powerful and influential state. Other pirates saw this and established their own states, many of which were united into larger sultanates eventually.
RP Sample: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=497719&p=38404188#p38404188

A handy map
(https://i.imgur.com/27JLSCD.png)

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)


Anything else to add?
I will be taking a look at this, but please fix the formatting too, most of the app shouldn't be bold

I know, I will fix that
MT City-state off the coast of Japan: Sumo wrestling, tech startups, Shintō mobs, gay marriage, Bōsōzuku, taiko drums, zokusha cars, neon signs, skyscrapers, Yakuza, internet, Christians, teen biker gangs, international treaties, inter-city canals, rooftop gardens, Samurai, Internet Explorer, canned beer, and a Shogun. 2002 C.E.
Yooper High Kingdom wrote:If I could describe Mandrinpoor with one word, it would be this: Slick.
Nevertopia wrote:Madrinpoor? More like madrinWEALTH be upon your family, may your days be happy and your burdens be light.

SupportUkraine!
Cuban-American He/him

User avatar
Deblar
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5205
Founded: Jan 28, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Deblar » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:24 am

Tracian Empire wrote:
Deblar wrote:I’ll have an app completed soon

What area are you interested in?

North America

User avatar
Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:26 am

Deblar wrote:
Tracian Empire wrote:What area are you interested in?

North America

What part of it specifically? You should make a reservation so that I can properly add you to the map and the list
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

User avatar
Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:30 am

Wasi State wrote:Full Nation Name : Federal Enclave of the Continental United States
Majority/Official Culture : Colonial American


#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

Alright, besides from what has been talked about in the server, the part of your app that is still problematic is the economy. Simply put, without a foreign backer, your economy wouldn't be in any shape to be industrializing. Even with a Ponzi scheme funding your country's economy would be closer to that of a Chinese warlord state than anything. You could have some early industrialization here and there, private workshops and mills here and there due to contact with Britain, and the stuff that existed in the area prior to the revolution, but most of your state would be still firmly pre-industrial, and your economy would either be very stagnant or on the verge of a massive decline, unless you can maybe get another revolutionary state to start funding you.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

User avatar
Deblar
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5205
Founded: Jan 28, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Deblar » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:41 am

Reservation

Nation Name: Republic of Florida
Territory: the Floridian peninsula, claims on old Spanish claims up to the Mississippi River
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

User avatar
Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:58 am

Deblar wrote:
Reservation

Nation Name: Republic of Florida
Territory: the Floridian peninsula, claims on old Spanish claims up to the Mississippi River
#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

Reservation accepted
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

User avatar
Wasi State
Diplomat
 
Posts: 843
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Wasi State » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:02 am

Tracian Empire wrote:
Wasi State wrote:Full Nation Name : Federal Enclave of the Continental United States
Majority/Official Culture : Colonial American


#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

Alright, besides from what has been talked about in the server, the part of your app that is still problematic is the economy. Simply put, without a foreign backer, your economy wouldn't be in any shape to be industrializing. Even with a Ponzi scheme funding your country's economy would be closer to that of a Chinese warlord state than anything. You could have some early industrialization here and there, private workshops and mills here and there due to contact with Britain, and the stuff that existed in the area prior to the revolution, but most of your state would be still firmly pre-industrial, and your economy would either be very stagnant or on the verge of a massive decline, unless you can maybe get another revolutionary state to start funding you.

Yeah looking at it now, that makes more sense, I'll go and change it then to a pre-industrial economy at best.
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Deblar
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5205
Founded: Jan 28, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Deblar » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:02 pm

Full Nation Name : Republic of Florida
Majority/Official Culture : Blend of Hispanic and American culture
Territorial Core : The Floridian peninsula
Territorial Claim : The entirety of old Spanish claims on Florida up to the Mississippi River
Capital City : St. Augustine, Florida
Population : 946,040 (1,758,740 including slaves, free blacks, and Native Americans)
Flag: Image

Government Type : Federal Republic
Government Ideology/Policies : After winning independence, Florida had remained isolationist prior to the election of Diego De la Rosa. While campaigning, De la Rosa used the promise of increased diplomacy with European and Asian nations as a pillar of his campaign. After winning he election, recently elected De la Rosa plans to not waste any time implementing his agenda.
Government Focus : The De la Rosa administration plans to broaden diplomatic relations with European and Asian nations, as well as engage itself more in international trade and to grow the economy so that it is not so dependent on agriculture as it currently is.
Head of State : Diego De la Rosa
Head of Government : Diego De la Rosa
Government Description : The Floridian government is based on the IRL American government, with three branches of government. There are a few differences, such as there is only one house of legislature and the Supreme Court is made up of elected officials rather than appointed judges.

The Executive Branch is made up of the Office of the President, the Office of the Vice President, and each of the different ministries, which function like the IRL American system.

The Legislative Branch is made up of a singular house of legislature, the Senate, which is made up of 2 representatives from each of Florida’s 16 districts (or states), plus a representative from each Native American tribe living in Florida.

The Judicial Branch is made up of courts of different levels of jurisdiction and power, those being local level courts, district level courts, lesser federal courts, and the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court of Florida is made up of a body of 7 different officials who are elected into their seats by the people rather than appointed by the President. These officials are usually people with experience in the criminal justice system, such as lawyers, prosecutors, and judges.

Majority/State Religion :Christianity
Religious Description :[/b] Florida is 73% Protestant , with the rest of the Christian population falling under Roman Catholicism. Other religions include Atheism and voodoo.

Economic Ideologies : Capitalism
Major Production : Oranges, Cattle, Cotton, Sugar, etc.
Economic Description : Florida’s economy is mostly dependent on agriculture, as there are little factories(only two on the whole country) and they engage in little international trade. President Diego De la Rosa plans to change this by increasing international trade with the Federal Enclave to the north and Europe, as well as beginning to industrialize. Knowing that industrializing will be difficult, to say the least, without a foreign backer, De la Rosa also plans on gaining one as part of his extensive foreign policy agenda.

Florida’s agriculture industry makes up nearly 57% of Florida’s GDP, with many farms and plantations covering up most of the Florida countryside. These farms, which are owned by the local countrymen and mainly grow oranges, peaches, cotton, and sugarcane, use paid hands and are not as dependent on slave labor as they used to be. The plantations, which are owned by the rich from the cities, still use slave labor, despite the fact that they generate enough profit to hire paid hands and still make a decent amount of money. However , despite Florida’s lessening reliance on slave labor, these rich plantation owners refuse to free their slaves, which is a controversial issue the De la Rosa administration will have to face over the next four years.

Meanwhile, Florida hardly engages in any foreign trade, taking in very little imports and not exporting any goods at all, which considering the large agricultural output, exporting excess goods is an untapped gold mine for the Floridian economy. Diego De la Rosa knows this, and plans to negotiate trade agreements with European nations and with the Federal Enclave to the north.

As for Florida’s industry, it’s almost nonexistent. There are only two active factories in Florida, and all they produce is farming equipment which is almost immediately sent to the farms and plantations. Once a foreign financial backer is secured, Diego De la Rosa plans to open the outskirts and unused portion of the cities to factory construction. These hypothetical new factories would produce refined goods, construction supplies such as steel, and new weapons to be used by the military, such as guns and cannons.

Development: Pre-Industrial
Development Description : Florida’s industry is almost nonexistent. There are only two active factories in Florida, and all they produce is farming equipment which is almost immediately sent to the farms and plantations. Once a foreign financial backer is secured, Diego De la Rosa plans to open the outskirts and unused portion of the cities to factory construction. These hypothetical new factories would produce refined goods, construction supplies such as steel, and new weapons to be used by the military, such as guns and cannons.

Army Description : After the Floridian Revolution, the Revolutionary Militia, the forces of the rebels, was reorganized into the Floridian Army. The army, made up of only 20,000 troops, is divided into 10 brigades of 2,000 troops each.
Army Weakness : The Floridian Army is remarkably small(only 30,000 men in total) and not very well funded(military funding only takes up 3% of the GDP), and the rather conservative government is hesitant to give the military any new funds.
Naval Description : The navy is led by former American sailor Henry Jackson, who also fought in the American Revolution. His experience and leadership gives the navy a tactical advantage. He prefers to use European training methods and tactics. His leadership is similar to that of John Paul Jones(who primarily used hit and run tactics). The navy is primarily used for defensive purposes .
Naval Weakness : same as army(only 18 ships and 7,000 sailors in total)
Further Military Description : Both Branches are pretty small and underfunded. The military is forced to use Revolution-era equipment, which is pretty outdated, and with little funding, they cannot afford to improve the equipment. President Diego De la Rosa has remained open to increasing military funding, but doing so is not his top priority.

National Goals : Florida wishes to establish itself on the global stage, grow its economy, and continue its survival
National Issues : Lacks international relations; economy and industry underdeveloped; slavery a widely talked about issue; small size, which will become more of a problem as the population continues to grow; while they have signed numerous treaties with Native Americans respecting their sovereignty and giving them somewhat of a voice in government, not everyone agrees with these treaties
National Figures of Interest : Ponce de Leon is seen as a Christopher Columbus like figure and can be seen on the $5 banknote, and revolutionary leader and first president of Florida, Benjamin Fredrickson, is seen as a George Washington like figure and the father of Florida. He can be seen on the $1 banknote.
National Ambition/Aspirations : In an initiative started by President Diego De la Rosa, Florida will begin to establish concrete relations with European and Asian powers.

History :
Early Colonial Period

In 1513, Florida was discovered by Hispanic explorer Juan Ponce de Leon, who named the newly discovered land La Florida. Upon discovery, he and his band of conquistadors landed ashore and claimed the land for Hispania.


In the following decades, the Hispanics attempted to establish a settlement in the area, with little success until 1565, when St. Augustine was founded. The Hispanics maintained strategic control over the area by converting local tribes to Christianity. Some Hispanics married or had unions with Native American and African women, enslaved and free, and their descendants created a mixed race population of mestizos and mulattos. The Hispanics encouraged escaped slaves from the thirteen colonies to come to Florida, where they would be freed. As such, many came.

There geographical claim on Florida diminished with British settlements being established to the north and French settlements being established to the west. To protect St. Augustine from attacks from Britain and buccaneers, they built the Castillo de San Marcos and Fort Mantanzas and to maintain its strategic position to lay claim to Florida as a whole. These forts would play a considerable role in the Floridian Revolution.

The 1st and 2nd Great Migrations

By 1760, the population of Florida was a mere 55,000. Meanwhile, the British made the Proclamation of 1763, which barred settlers form the thirteen colonies form settling west of the Appalachian Mountains. Colonists also saw the first of the new taxes created by the British that would eventually spark the American Revolution. Although, in 1765, a man from North Carolina proposed that colonists that were looking to settle west, but couldn’t, and to also escape the harsh taxation, could settle in Florida, in what is referred to as the Florida Loophole. This proposal sparked the First Great Migration, in which nearly 400,000 settlers from the thirteen colonies came to Florida in droves, settling in already established towns like St. Augustine and Miami, and also founding their own towns, such as Tampa.

The First Great Migration, which lasted from 1765-1770, caused the population to skyrocket, reaching 420,000 by 1770. With the rapid increase in population, the Hispanic Crown officially put a Lieutenant Governor was put in charge of the territory, as the Crown had direct control before. After the First Great Migration, the population stabilized and didn’t increase all that much. Then, in 1775, the American Revolution began, and many colonists were afraid of the might of Great Britain. In an attempt to flee the potential violence, colonists, mostly loyalists, moved to Florida in the Second Great Migration, in which about 250,000 colonists moved to Florida.

After the First and Second Great Migrations, the population of Florida was approaching 700,000 by 1783, when the Treaty of Paris was signed and the American Revolution came to an end.

The Rise of Tensions

After the American Revolution, the population was made up mostly of settlers from what was then the United States and of mestizos. Seeing how Hispanics were outnumbered in Florida nearly 15-1, the Hispanic Crown began to assert control through the Lieutenant Governor, restricting immigration from the former thirteen colonies, placing tariffs on American goods, taking steps to mandate Roman Catholicism, and gradually taking away power from the Lieutenant Governor, which was not liked by colonists, to say the least. The colonists protested the sudden authoritarianism from the Hispanic Crown, but they were largely ignored.

Then, the Hispanic Crown began to enforce mercantilism, blocking all trade from anyone other than Hispania. The colonists protested this by boycotting Hispanic goods, instead purchasing domestically crafted goods. The Hispanic Crown responded by seizing the businesses of the homemade goods crafters and shutting them down. They also nationalized farms and plantations in the countryside, also shutting down most of those. This made the economy dependent on Hispanic goods being shipped in. This outraged colonists, and as such, protests began to evolve into riots.

The Hispanic Crown was having none of this. Florida was their lone colonial possession in the New World, and they weren’t about to just give it up. As such, the Hispanic Crown sent 2,000 troops to Florida to seize control of the territory. News of this spread in Florida via whistleblower, and the colonists were outraged, beginning to arm themselves.
RP Sample: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=498384&p=38381231#p38381231

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)
Last edited by Deblar on Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:06 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:16 pm

Deblar wrote:Full Nation Name : Republic of Florida

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

You need to take the history of the already accepted nations into account.
  • Spain is known as Hispania, which is an Iberian identity
  • The Seven Years War hasn't happened in this timeline, or at the very least it did not involve Hispania. You could however discuss a way for Florida to have been conquered by Britain with the players in question.
  • British involvement in the independence of Florida should be discussed with the player in question, as Britain would have just lost its American colonies to revolution
  • Florida gaining independence in a treaty from Hispania is possible, but it being defeated so badly so as to be forced to pay reparations wouldn't
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Madrinpoor
Minister
 
Posts: 2255
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Madrinpoor » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:36 pm

So besides formatting my app is good? Or do I need to add more
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Elerian
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11563
Founded: Aug 31, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Elerian » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:07 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:-Snip-


You can use Great Zhu as protection for the early parts of your app if you want, but I don't really want to be tied to pirates at the present time of the RP.

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Draos
Minister
 
Posts: 2369
Founded: May 25, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Draos » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:15 pm

Tracian Empire wrote:
Deblar wrote:Full Nation Name : Republic of Florida

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

You need to take the history of the already accepted nations into account.
  • Spain is known as Hispania, which is an Iberian identity
  • The Seven Years War hasn't happened in this timeline, or at the very least it did not involve Hispania. You could however discuss a way for Florida to have been conquered by Britain with the players in question.
  • British involvement in the independence of Florida should be discussed with the player in question, as Britain would have just lost its American colonies to revolution
  • Florida gaining independence in a treaty from Hispania is possible, but it being defeated so badly so as to be forced to pay reparations wouldn't

Yeah you would basically have to be able to seize and hold a sizable area of the Hispanic homeland which realistically you wouldn't be able to.
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Draos
Minister
 
Posts: 2369
Founded: May 25, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Draos » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:25 pm

Deblar wrote:Full Nation Name : Republic of Florida
Majority/Official Culture : Blend of Spanish and American culture
Territorial Core : The Floridian peninsula
Territorial Claim : The entirety of old Spanish claims on Florida up to the Mississippi River
Capital City : St. Augustine, Florida
Population : 946,040
Flag: (Image)

Government Type : Federal Republic
Government Ideology/Policies : [[OPTIONAL]] [[Militant, Imperialist, Expansionist, etc.]]
Government Focus : To establish Florida on the world stage, defend her interests against colonizers, and grow the economy
Head of State : Diego De la Rosa
Head of Government : Diego De la Rosa
Government Description : The Floridian government is based on the IRL American government, with three branches of government. There are a few differences, such as there is only one house of legislature and the Supreme Court is made up of elected officials rather than appointed judges.

Majority/State Religion : Christianity
[b]Religious Description :
Florida is 73% Catholic, with the rest of the Christian population falling under Protestantism. Other religions include Atheism and Buddhism.

Economic Ideologies : Capitalism
Major Production : Cotton, Cattle, Food, Sugar, etc.
Economic Description : The economy of Florida is heavily based on agriculture, but the government has attempted to change that by subsidizing industry and encouraging factory development

Development: Industrializing
Development Description : Florida is early in the process of industrializing, with a few factories in major towns and the capital

[b]Army Description :
The army is led by a former Spanish war general by the name of Julio Hernandez de Santa Anna, who fought for the Spanish during the Seven Years War and led the Spanish attacks of British forces in the Gulf Coast during the American Revolution. His experience in warfare and superb ability to train his troops brings an advantage to the Floridian Army
Army Weakness : The Floridian Army is remarkably small and not very well funded, and the rather conservative government is hesitant to give the military any new funds.
Naval Description : The navy is led by former American sailor Henry Jackson, who also fought in the American Revolution. His experience
and leadership gives the navy a tactical advantage
Naval Weakness : same as army
Further Military Description : [[OPTIONAL]]

National Goals : Florida wishes to establish itself on the global stage
National Issues : Lacks international recognition, economy and industry underdeveloped
National Figures of Interest : [[OPTIONAL]] Ponce de Leon is seen as a Christopher Columbus like figure, and revolutionary leader and first president of Florida, Benjamin Fredrickson, is seen as a George Washington like figure and the father of Florida.
National Ambition/Aspirations : [[OPTIONAL]]

History :
In 1513, Florida was discovered by Spanish explorer Ponce de Leon, who named the new land La Florida. In 1564, the first settlement, St. Augustine, was founded. As more settlements popped up across Florida, the area came under frequent attacks from British and French forces. The conflict heightened with the 7 Years War, after which Florida came under British control.

During British occupation, many colonists from the 13 colonies began to move to the area, considering they weren't allowed to settle west of the Appalachian Mountains and for the expansive farmland optimal for growing crops like cotton, tobacco, and others. Mass immigration continued through the American Revolution, mostly for loyalists looking to escape harassment in the 13 colonies. After Florida was returned to Spanish control, the population was now made up mostly of Americans who emigrated from the 13 colonies. These settlers began to clash with the Spanish colonial government, which began to come to a head in 1787, when troops were sent to seize control over the territory. Armed colonists clashed with them near St. Augustine, officially starting the Floridian Revolution.

Upon receiving the news of the Revolution, Great Britain offered support, as a form of payback for the Spanish supporting American colonists during the American Revolution, which the rebels accepted. The Spanish were able to create a blockade, but the British were able to break through in a bold attack and create a hole for support soldiers to go through. Once British troops landed in Florida, they went to St. Augustine and flanked the assaulting Spanish, who, after taking numerous losses, retreated into the countryside to regroup. When the Spanish attempted to attack St. Augustine again, Floridian militia launched a surprise attack on their camp. The Spanish general was captured and was forced to surrender.

After the surrender of Spanish forces, both sides signed the Treaty of Madrid, which granted the Republic of Florida independence from Spain in 1788. Spain was also forced to pay for damages from the Revolution. Since independence, Florida has been trying to earn recognition from other European powers, such as Germany and France. Florida also has been attempting to industrialize it's economy, which is heavily dependent on agriculture. Florida also has strong ties with Britain.
RP Sample: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=498384&p=38381231#p38381231

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

I can edit my app to where I did colonize Florida but definitely read my history
Prime Minister and former Foreign Minister of Union of Free Nations
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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:15 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:
Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)


Anything else to add?

  • You still have significant sections that are bolded when they shouldn't be
  • The exact foundation of the alliance would still need a better reason I think than just them trying to gain better profits. There would have likely been a strong rivalry between the various pirate fleets. A strong European threat might be a possibility.
  • Said description of how the states were founded also has no place in Government Ideology/Policies.
  • Please remove stuff like "I described it" or "kind of self-explanatory", it feels condescending. Especially since you're generally the one not properly following the format. Head of State/Head of Government should just be a list of names, with any actual description of how the government works being in Government Description.
  • You also don't exactly properly describe some questions that are left. if the pirate fleets are ran by demilords, then what is the exact role of the states themselves? Are the pirate navies flying official colors, or are the sultanates simply claiming to not have enough forces to get rid of the pirates and trying to appear neutral? What's the exact power the sultans have over their own states and over the pirate fleets?
  • Social-Market Capitalism doesn't really make much sense. To begin with, it's much too modern of a model to be applied in the early 19th century, and secondly, even if it would exist, it would be unfeasible for your states to practice it. Economically they wouldn't gain enough from piracy as to promote extensive social help policies.
  • You are once again mixing up sections. "Piracy" isn't an economic ideology, you can perhaps mention its role in shaping economic ideology but actual descriptions should go to "Economic Description", instead you're talking about pirate rank promotion in a section meant for a brief mentioning of economic ideology.
  • The army description is a bit too small. You don't need to write an essay about it, but a rough idea of how it gets its men and how it's armed would be needed. Are these voluntary forces, mercenaries? Are they armed with modern muskets? And so on.
  • Large junks would probably be few in numbers, as your fleets would not be able to fight directly against national navies, and it's also likely that modern junks would come to you through observation of the Zhu navies. There wouldn't also really be any treasure for your junks to carry.
  • You've once again mixed the formatting and section ordering of the app which isn't allowed. Naval Weakness is Naval Weakness, Further Military Description is what it is, and there is no need for anything Extra.
  • You kinda contradict yourself. You say that the fleets are generally spread away far from home, and that they each do their own thing without coordination, and yet at the same time you say that the states are well protected - you can't have fleets everywhere. Similarly, you are wrong about your position. The Strait of Malacca would be a big shipping lane for Asian-European trade, and you'd have to contend with the Korean, Japanese, and Zhu navies, let's not even talk about the Hispanic and the British Navies, and presumably the French ones too. Their fleet wouldn't be more technologically advanced than the European vessels, so that point would be moot, and having to deal with so many national navies means that your fleets would most likely be directed towards raiding merchant vessels and avoiding military conflict, which you do agree with in that extra further description, but which contradicts your ability to effectively resist European colonization. You would have not been colonized yet presumably because there is no direct interest in Sumatra or Borneo strong enough to justify the high cost in material and men that a war there would require. But with the Hispanics in the north of the strait, and the Koreans all around, you wouldn't have a firm control over the Strait of Malacca to begin with. Plus the Zhu would be interested in trade with the Europeans.
  • Piracy is the purpose of the pirates yes, but what about the people in the mainland, the normal citizens who aren't involved? The Barbary pirates were one thing, and there were the actual states in the area, Tripolitania, Tunisia, and so on.
  • You still do not have a clear divergence. A point of divergence is the moment when real life history diverges into alternative history. You do have Atang of Jabua as your pirate, but as far as I can say that's a completely original character, and has nothing to do with the situation of Southeast Asia in the 18th century. You make no mention of the real life states that would have existed in this area. Johor, Jambi, Palembang, Sambas. Bangka wasn't a state in real life, but was part of Palembang, Tanjung Jabung seems to be a province that was part of Jambi, and so on. You don't mention what happened to the real life states and how they diverged into the states you mention and an era of piracy. You also don't clearly explain what the sultanates are. If they're pirate states, they wouldn't have much in terms of administration, did they become sultanates as part of the attempts of the pirates to become proper states, or are they simply like the Karamanli dynasty, states which employ pirates and corsairs?
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Madrinpoor
Minister
 
Posts: 2255
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Madrinpoor » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:33 pm

Tracian Empire wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:
Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)


Anything else to add?

  • You still have significant sections that are bolded when they shouldn't be
  • The exact foundation of the alliance would still need a better reason I think than just them trying to gain better profits. There would have likely been a strong rivalry between the various pirate fleets. A strong European threat might be a possibility.
  • Said description of how the states were founded also has no place in Government Ideology/Policies.
  • Please remove stuff like "I described it" or "kind of self-explanatory", it feels condescending. Especially since you're generally the one not properly following the format. Head of State/Head of Government should just be a list of names, with any actual description of how the government works being in Government Description.
  • You also don't exactly properly describe some questions that are left. if the pirate fleets are ran by demilords, then what is the exact role of the states themselves? Are the pirate navies flying official colors, or are the sultanates simply claiming to not have enough forces to get rid of the pirates and trying to appear neutral? What's the exact power the sultans have over their own states and over the pirate fleets?
  • Social-Market Capitalism doesn't really make much sense. To begin with, it's much too modern of a model to be applied in the early 19th century, and secondly, even if it would exist, it would be unfeasible for your states to practice it. Economically they wouldn't gain enough from piracy as to promote extensive social help policies.
  • You are once again mixing up sections. "Piracy" isn't an economic ideology, you can perhaps mention its role in shaping economic ideology but actual descriptions should go to "Economic Description", instead you're talking about pirate rank promotion in a section meant for a brief mentioning of economic ideology.
  • The army description is a bit too small. You don't need to write an essay about it, but a rough idea of how it gets its men and how it's armed would be needed. Are these voluntary forces, mercenaries? Are they armed with modern muskets? And so on.
  • Large junks would probably be few in numbers, as your fleets would not be able to fight directly against national navies, and it's also likely that modern junks would come to you through observation of the Zhu navies. There wouldn't also really be any treasure for your junks to carry.
  • You've once again mixed the formatting and section ordering of the app which isn't allowed. Naval Weakness is Naval Weakness, Further Military Description is what it is, and there is no need for anything Extra.
  • You kinda contradict yourself. You say that the fleets are generally spread away far from home, and that they each do their own thing without coordination, and yet at the same time you say that the states are well protected - you can't have fleets everywhere. Similarly, you are wrong about your position. The Strait of Malacca would be a big shipping lane for Asian-European trade, and you'd have to contend with the Korean, Japanese, and Zhu navies, let's not even talk about the Hispanic and the British Navies, and presumably the French ones too. Their fleet wouldn't be more technologically advanced than the European vessels, so that point would be moot, and having to deal with so many national navies means that your fleets would most likely be directed towards raiding merchant vessels and avoiding military conflict, which you do agree with in that extra further description, but which contradicts your ability to effectively resist European colonization. You would have not been colonized yet presumably because there is no direct interest in Sumatra or Borneo strong enough to justify the high cost in material and men that a war there would require. But with the Hispanics in the north of the strait, and the Koreans all around, you wouldn't have a firm control over the Strait of Malacca to begin with. Plus the Zhu would be interested in trade with the Europeans.
  • Piracy is the purpose of the pirates yes, but what about the people in the mainland, the normal citizens who aren't involved? The Barbary pirates were one thing, and there were the actual states in the area, Tripolitania, Tunisia, and so on.
  • You still do not have a clear divergence. A point of divergence is the moment when real life history diverges into alternative history. You do have Atang of Jabua as your pirate, but as far as I can say that's a completely original character, and has nothing to do with the situation of Southeast Asia in the 18th century. You make no mention of the real life states that would have existed in this area. Johor, Jambi, Palembang, Sambas. Bangka wasn't a state in real life, but was part of Palembang, Tanjung Jabung seems to be a province that was part of Jambi, and so on. You don't mention what happened to the real life states and how they diverged into the states you mention and an era of piracy. You also don't clearly explain what the sultanates are. If they're pirate states, they wouldn't have much in terms of administration, did they become sultanates as part of the attempts of the pirates to become proper states, or are they simply like the Karamanli dynasty, states which employ pirates and corsairs?

Answers:

"[*]You still have significant sections that are bolded when they shouldn't be" - I know, I will fix formatting after everything else because I don't want to have to go back if I need to add another section or something. I am asking questions about the content not the formatting.
"[*]The exact foundation of the alliance would still need a better reason I think than just them trying to gain better profits. There would have likely been a strong rivalry between the various pirate fleets. A strong European threat might be a possibility." - I will make the reasoning more strong, but an alliance does sound feasible. Especially with so many different people trying to attack them at the same time, they don't want to worry about other pirates. What do you suggest I do here?
"[*]Said description of how the states were founded also has no place in Government Ideology/Policies." - Ok I will move it
"[*]Please remove stuff like "I described it" or "kind of self-explanatory", it feels condescending. Especially since you're generally the one not properly following the format. Head of State/Head of Government should just be a list of names, with any actual description of how the government works being in Government Description." - I was not in any way trying to be condescending. Sorry if it seemed that way, but some parts I had already described and I didn't feel like rewriting. And some parts are also, to be honest, self explanatory and it seems explaining them isn't necessary. But if you want me to explain them, I will. Also, 'especially since you're generally the one not following proper format'...really.
"[*]You also don't exactly properly describe some questions that are left. if the pirate fleets are ran by demilords, then what is the exact role of the states themselves? Are the pirate navies flying official colors, or are the sultanates simply claiming to not have enough forces to get rid of the pirates and trying to appear neutral? What's the exact power the sultans have over their own states and over the pirate fleets?" - Okay, I guess I explained demilords confusingly. They are basically knights. The sultans grant the, control over the fleet in return for land, but in this case, land is replaced with ships. I can fix that I guess.
"[*]Social-Market Capitalism doesn't really make much sense. To begin with, it's much too modern of a model to be applied in the early 19th century, and secondly, even if it would exist, it would be unfeasible for your states to practice it. Economically they wouldn't gain enough from piracy as to promote extensive social help policies." I guess a complete free market seems like the most feasible option and I will edit my app accordingly. Too modern of a model isn't a very strong critique, social welfare systems have been in place since Hammurabi. But it does seem like it wouldn't be used in this context. So I will change that.
"[*]You are once again mixing up sections. "Piracy" isn't an economic ideology, you can perhaps mention its role in shaping economic ideology but actual descriptions should go to "Economic Description", instead you're talking about pirate rank promotion in a section meant for a brief mentioning of economic ideology." - Okay...what do you want me to put in economic description. The entire economy is BASED on stealing other people's stuff. I don't know what else to tell you. I guess of the very limited export market it would be free market as wage laws are practically nonexistent, so I will add that. Otherwise I don't know what to tell you for my economic ideology.
"[*]The army description is a bit too small. You don't need to write an essay about it, but a rough idea of how it gets its men and how it's armed would be needed. Are these voluntary forces, mercenaries? Are they armed with modern muskets? And so on." - You told me that it was fine so I assumed it was fine. I can add some details, though I kind of already explained it...the Sultans have armies they use as police, bodyguards, and defenders/conquerors if need be. They would rarely ever take land, if they capture an existing Sultanate then they would likely get the rest of that territory too that they leave mostly unadministered, or with little care as to what goes on there. But I can add more parts if you need.
"[*]Large junks would probably be few in numbers, as your fleets would not be able to fight directly against national navies, and it's also likely that modern junks would come to you through observation of the Zhu navies. There wouldn't also really be any treasure for your junks to carry." - This critique doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I said that large junks are few in numbers. I specified that ONLY the most successful pirates have it. I also specified that my fleets RARELY ever fight fleet battles, and mostly pirate lone ships or small groups of ships. I also said they would come from Zhu navies...I literally specified that it was adopted from them. What is your criticism there? And finally, 'There wouldn't also really be any treasure for your junks to carry' confuses me a lot. What do you mean no treasure? So spice and gold and jade and rugs and silk and clothes and brass and ivory and weapons and slaves and ebony and skins and animals and all the other things that go from Africa to Asia just don't exist? They are on the MAIN trade route from Asia to Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Why no treasure? Please explain because I am confused.
"[*]You've once again mixed the formatting and section ordering of the app which isn't allowed. Naval Weakness is Naval Weakness, Further Military Description is what it is, and there is no need for anything Extra." I don't really see how this is that relevant. But because you want me to fix it, let me explain. Parts of these descriptions will be very confusing if I do not keep them where they are, because if I drop them in the further military description section then it will be entirely out of context and very confusing. It seems that it matters a lot to you, so I will change it, which makes it easier for me, but it will probably look out of context. Just warning you.
"[*]You kinda contradict yourself. You say that the fleets are generally spread away far from home, and that they each do their own thing without coordination, and yet at the same time you say that the states are well protected - you can't have fleets everywhere. Similarly, you are wrong about your position. The Strait of Malacca would be a big shipping lane for Asian-European trade, and you'd have to contend with the Korean, Japanese, and Zhu navies, let's not even talk about the Hispanic and the British Navies, and presumably the French ones too. Their fleet wouldn't be more technologically advanced than the European vessels, so that point would be moot, and having to deal with so many national navies means that your fleets would most likely be directed towards raiding merchant vessels and avoiding military conflict, which you do agree with in that extra further description, but which contradicts your ability to effectively resist European colonization. You would have not been colonized yet presumably because there is no direct interest in Sumatra or Borneo strong enough to justify the high cost in material and men that a war there would require. But with the Hispanics in the north of the strait, and the Koreans all around, you wouldn't have a firm control over the Strait of Malacca to begin with. Plus the Zhu would be interested in trade with the Europeans." - What I mean to say, and this was probably confusing so I am sorry for that and I will try to explain it better, is this. The pirate fleets are not meant for fleet combat. But if colonizers did take over, for instance, Borneo, then they would have a hard time profiting from that because of the piracy, which would run them dry. That is pretty much the point. Pirates are HARD to fight, because there are many and they can split up and dart off to who knows where as you vainly try to hunt them. I don't understand your technology point. Junks were very very advanced ships, and if outfitted with modern weaponry, were just as capable as European ones. Also, there are Lorchas, which I explained, which use the highly effective rigging of the Junks combined with the deck structure of the European Clippers. And finally, 'Hispanics in the north of the strait, and the Koreans all around, you wouldn't have a firm control over the Strait of Malacca to begin with' isn't clear to me what you mean. They don't have ships everywhere, therefore they couldn't possibly protect ALL their trading vessels in the area. The point of the pirates is that they attack trading vessels that are lone or weak. The ones they can beat, which I already explained. Everyone would be interested in trade in the region, and exclusive access for one country, in exchange for protection, is extremely tempting. That is why the Zhu would likely be allied, or maybe some other power, even a European one.
"[*]Piracy is the purpose of the pirates yes, but what about the people in the mainland, the normal citizens who aren't involved? The Barbary pirates were one thing, and there were the actual states in the area, Tripolitania, Tunisia, and so on." - What about them? They just live normal lives. Most of their livelihoods come from buying and selling goods the pirates brought in, and trade is still an industry, though a smaller one than piracy (not a contradiction). What do you want me to say about them?
"[*]You still do not have a clear divergence. A point of divergence is the moment when real life history diverges into alternative history. You do have Atang of Jabua as your pirate, but as far as I can say that's a completely original character, and has nothing to do with the situation of Southeast Asia in the 18th century. You make no mention of the real life states that would have existed in this area. Johor, Jambi, Palembang, Sambas. Bangka wasn't a state in real life, but was part of Palembang, Tanjung Jabung seems to be a province that was part of Jambi, and so on. You don't mention what happened to the real life states and how they diverged into the states you mention and an era of piracy. You also don't clearly explain what the sultanates are. If they're pirate states, they wouldn't have much in terms of administration, did they become sultanates as part of the attempts of the pirates to become proper states, or are they simply like the Karamanli dynasty, states which employ pirates and corsairs?[/list][/quote]" - I...I explained this. I explained how they became pirate states. You are critiquing me for not having a point of divergence, and you are also critiquing me for including states that don't exist and original states. What do you want me to say? I explained the sultanates, and I thought that I explained them clearly, because I explained how they are governed, how they formed, how they rule, how they control their armies, how they control their people, and how they deal with other nations. They are Sultanates and the Sultans are descendents of pirates. They act as a harbor for pirates, but also incorporate piracy into their economic system and taxation. I am using modern Indonesian states. Not 1800s ones because I can do what I want with regards to NAMING PROVINCES in an alt-history. Johor is in the Malay Peninsula so I don't mention it. Jambi, Palembang, and Sambas are all incorporated into the Sultan states because, like I explained, the pirates* took over the Sultan's kingdoms. Therefore they got control of the states. Therefore they make new states. What do you want me to say about the RL ones at that time, they ceased to exist because they were conquered by the pirates. The pirates would have taken over parts of the provinces, and not other parts, because other pirates took them. What do you want me to say about them devolving into piracy? My divergence is that piracy was very prevalent there, more so than even in RL, and therefore the pirates gained control of territory and instituted their states. Did that answer your questions?

*By pirates I mean the pirate-sultans like Atang



I will fix a lot of problems I have and I will fix formatting. Some critiques do not make sense to me, some seem slightly petty to be honest, and some seem confusing, so I have asked you to explain them. Once I finish I will repost my updated version. Have a nice day :)
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Madrinpoor
Minister
 
Posts: 2255
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Madrinpoor » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:46 pm

/bump

Full Nation Name : Sumatran States Confederacy (Sumatran States, or SS)
Majority/Official Culture : Malay
Territorial Core : Sumatra and Borneo's coastlines facing towards each other as well as surrounding islands. Kind of the coastline in between Java and Malay Peninsula. They operate (I will explain later) in Malacca, the Riau Islands, and all over the South China Sea near Indonesia and Malaysia.
Territorial Claim : Parts of Northwestern Java
Capital City : Each state has its own capital, but all meet in Palembang for the council, which decides trans-state issues.
Population: around 4-5 million

Government Type : Devolutionized Confederacy
Government Ideology/Policies : Okay. Finally. This nation is basically the Indian Ocean version of the Barbary States. There are six states, which each control different land as well as their own fleets. They raid ships coming through the Strait of Malacca and the rest of the South China Sea, as well as make attacks on other colonies that are not their own. Originally they were all different and independent states, which raided each other's boats and cities. In the 1780s, four of the states met in the city of Palembang, which was neutral at the time, to discuss forming a federation to protect each other from pirate raids and focus on the better targets, like that of the European ships. Eventually that number expanded to six and the Sumatran States Confederacy was born.
Government Focus : Piracy! They are pirates. They care about robbing ships and they are good at their job. Each state has a fleet run by a demilord, a very good pirate who also owns a stake of land and controls a government fleet. They go on raiding missions, usually for boats but occasionally even for towns. Often when they sack a town they might take it over too, and add it to their territory. The economy is based on this, but also some exports are produced. They live normal lives and do normal things, though their livelihoods are often based off of selling pirated goods or similar things, due to a vast majority of their population living on the coastline and in the big cities.
Head of State : Faisal of Bangka (There are technically six, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states.)
Head of Government : The six sultans of the states. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.
Government Description : I just described it above, which is not meant to be condescending but I have already explained, so I will copy and paste what I already wrote to remain consistent. There are technically six heads of state, for each of the Sultanates. They have a council where they meet once every six months to discuss important matters, and there is a Head of the council, which rotates every meeting. In the meantime the head has duties and is responsible for affairs between the states. The six sultans are the Heads of Government. They are Faisal of Bangka (Bangka), Ahmad of Jabung (Tanjung Jabung), Yohanes of Sambas (Mempawah), Arif of Ketapang (Ketapang), Bagus of Meranti (Meranti and Siak), and Firdhaus of Kayong (Kayong). They run their own states, but also meet every six months to discuss affairs of the states. One of them serves as Head of the council, a rotating position, but he doesn't really have much mroe power and just passes decrees the council votes on, with a ceremonial role.

Majority/State Religion : Islam
Religious Description : Majority Muslim, about 60%, but there are many Hindus and Christians and 30% Buddhist. One of the states, Meranti and Siak, is majority Buddhist.

Economic Ideologies : They are pirates. Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.
Major Production : Rice, as well as rubber, sugarcane, and other fruit. But most of their economy is piracy.
Economic Description : Copy and paste again.Their economy is based on stealing from other nations. But of the economy they have, it is essentially Social Market Capitalism, because the government awards pensions to the poor and disabled. They are actually very good rulers for pirates, at least to their citizens. Successful pirates are also awarded other titles and become demilords, in charge of fleets.

Development: Not very developed because it is a pirate confederacy. So...nonindustrialized.
Development Description : Because the government has not paid much thought towards developing the economy, instead focusing on their navy and piracy efforts, the economy is very agricultural and unlikely to industrialize soon. Technology is not advancing rapidly, and most of it comes south from China or East from India or is stolen.

Army Description : Not strong and quite small. No inter-confederacy army, really just each Sultan has his own army that he uses for protection, policing, and small-scale land expansion.
Army Weakness : Small, and not used often. Kind of self-explanatory.
Naval Description :The navy is very strong, and is mostly used for piracy efforts. Technology explanation:

- Junks, technology adopted from the Chinese and modified to be faster, stronger, and able to carry more men and treasure. They are used similar to clippers or ships-of-the-line in Europe. The grandest Junks, owned by powerful pirates, are decorated with carvings and gold inlay and intricate sails, with multiple levels of decks and cannons. The smaller Junks have plain decorations and are smaller. Junks are often able to hold their own against European ships as well as those belonging to other Asian nations. They have adopted cannons and other modern weaponry in order to compete with the europeans
- Dhows were originally developed in the Indian Ocean, and are small, sleek, and have one sail. They are used as cargo and trading ships, and can carry heavy loads despite their small size. Many fleets have packs of them that they use to carry equipment and treasure. Used less in smaller pirate fleets that mainly just 'strike and run', and more for large ships that spend years on the sea raiding ports and convoys, which need to carry more treasure.
- Lorchas are hybrids of Junks and European ships, with a European deck and a Junk sailing rig. They are formidable warships, and often make up a good amount of fleet composition.
- Semisdats are low slung and fast, and make up a lot of the pirate fleets. They have a deck and a cabin, with various space for storage. Most sailors on these sleep in barracks on the Junks or Lorchas, and use these solely for fighting. They are not good in fleet-to-fleet battles, being so small, but they are good for raiding merchant ships and lone military ships. Many have only one cannon, with some large ones having two and some small ones having no cannons.
- Atankenas are medium-sized ships used often for boarding, though they are also good for naval battles. The main distinguishing characteristics is the large wooden cover, which is essentially an elongated and tilted side wall. These ships are two decks or more, with the decks having cannons that shoot at the ships from far away, but these ships are mostly used for close fighting. They will pull into the ship next to them and pirates will board via the slanted walls, which also protect them from gunfire. Navigation is from a system of catwalks near the sails, above the slanted walls.
- Many other smaller variations of ships, similar to those used by barbary pirates, are also used in these fleets for various purposes.

Naval Weakness/Further Military Description : These fleets are massive, but very loosely controlled. If a coordinated naval assault. was ever to be needed, it would almost certainly fail due to how spread out these fleets are. Pirates will be gone with their fleet for months or years at a time, reporting into colonies only for supplies and updates with their Sultans.
Extra Further Military Description : Because the main purpose of these fleets are for piracy, there are few defenses of the state territories. However, the states are already very well protected. Because of the pirate's operation throughout Malacca and the South China Sea, launching a naval invasion would likely be a death sentence as pirates would attack the ships before they ever got close to the states. Because the whole area is controlled by the states, and there are few regional navies besides this one (unlike the Barbary Corsairs in the Mediterranean, which had to contend with Mediterranean Navies as well) there are pirates everywhere, but they cannot attack each other due to the Confederation. Disputes do occasionally arise, but the punishment for this is disenfranchisement, which means that the states basically disavow connection to that captain and the fleet and they are fair game for other pirates. The strait of Malacca's strategic importance also plays a role in the pirate's ability to draw in wealth from the trading vessels. They can contend with European colonists due to their technologically advanced fleet, and their location in one area, the far South China Sea, which restricts the possibility of other European fleets from ever taking much territory or, if they did, being able to use that territory without the pirates seizing their vessels. The states also hire privateers and independent pirates, or just conscript them. The privateers almost NEVER fight fleet-to-fleet unless they are caught up in a battle or VERY unlucky, but mainly raid and give a cut of their earnings to the states. If they cheat the cut they are executed and their ships/treasure confiscated.

National Goals : The focus of these states has always been piracy, and it likely always will be. The states survive on the loyalty of their subordinates, especially the pirates who rely on the protection from the states in order to keep from being hunted down and sunk.
National Issues : Well the very idea of the nation isn't very effective, because the sole purpose is to benefit the pirate Sultans and their other pirates. So...because the potential has kind of already been met since there isn't much of one...nothing? A larger fleet I guess, and expansion of operations into the Malay Peninsula and Java would be helpful, but those pesky colonizers...good for business with their trading ships but not with the territory they take.
National Figures of Interest : None really
National Ambition/Aspirations : I really have nothing to say here, because there is not necessarily a goal or aspiration for a society based on crime. Read Trevor Noah's biography, it explains. This sounds weird to people that haven't read it, but to those who have you likely get what I am talking about.

History :
Timeline
- Before 1780: Several different pirate states compete against each other for sea access when they could be fighting their targets. How inefficient.
- 1780: Four states; Bangka, Tanjung Jabung, Mempawah and Kayong, agree to a treaty and a confederation for their collective benefit.
- 1791: Meranti and Siak joins the confederacy
- 1802: Ketapang, originally many different smaller pirate city-states, are united under Arif. He joins the confederacy that same year.

Originally, the islands were home to many different nations and sultanates, as well as many different pirates. These pirates started out as individual enterprises, content with profiting off of the weak sultan's ineffective rule. However, one pirate, Atang of Jabua, who rose to prominence after kidnapping a Sultan for ransom, and soon amassed a giant fleet due to his experience at sailing and ability to draw loyalty, wanted to establish himself as more than just a pirate. He led his fleet to attack the city of Sungailiat, home to a small Sultan who ruled over a little kingdom of merchants and fishermen. The pirates invaded the town, but did not kill any civilians, they instead launched attacks on the treasury, palace, and other government buildings. Atang took control of the kingdom, and soon expanded to another one. By the time he had died, he expanded from a city-state into a sizeable Sultanate. His son, Totor, expanded further and used his established state to increase his wealth tremendously, investing some of it in infrastructure and similar projects, which soon benefited him with taxes. Eventually the state of Tanjung Jabung was established out of his territory. His son and Atang's grandson, Holmel, continued this expansion and Tanjung Jabung soon became a powerful and influential state. Other pirates saw this and established their own states, many of which were united into larger sultanates eventually.
RP Sample: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=497719&p=38404188#p38404188

A handy map
(https://i.imgur.com/27JLSCD.png)

#AltDiv (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)


Anything else to add?
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Yooper High Kingdom wrote:If I could describe Mandrinpoor with one word, it would be this: Slick.
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Tracian Empire
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26891
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Tracian Empire » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:00 am

  • Formatting is important, I mean your very answer has a formatting issue which in turn makes it more difficult to read.
  • Discuss history with other players. Like I said, you'd have two or three nations directly hostile to your pirates, maybe talk with one of the players to have it so that there was a military expedition planned against some of your states some time ago, I don't know. It's your concept.
  • Yes, as I've pointed out several times, you were not following the proper way the app should be organized. You were adding explanations where things only had to be mentioned, you were adding explanations about things where there shouldn't have been, and then complained in the description sections that you had to repeat yourself, when, had you followed the app as it should have been followed, this wouldn't have happened.
  • I am a bit confused by the comparison with knights but I will look at it in the app
  • Social welfare systems have existed for most of humanity's history, that is true, but not social-market capitalism.
  • You answered your own question. Capitalism would be your economic ideology, maybe mixed depending on the exact role of the state, or even state capitalism if the pirate fleets are completely controlled by the state. The role of piracy should then go to economic description.
  • You are once again sort of condescending here. You explained the role and size of these small armies, but I omitted what I asked you to add - recruitment, and equipment.
  • You said that the junks were adopted from the Chinese and then modified with cannons, when the Zhu themselves would have modernized junks, it wasn't a critique as much as me trying to see how much inspiration your fleets were taking from the Zhu, as in whether you had older junks that were modernized by your pirates, or constantly take over models of more modern junks from the Zhu.
  • Slaves and weapons wouldn't be particularly traded, spices would be the most important transport, and presumably also stuff like tea, but my point was simply that European and Asian trade would be defended, so your pirates would be mainly thriving off of fleets that they can overwhelm or merchant ships that aren't guarded or armed.
  • If it looks out of context that that's because you are not following the proper app format. Look at other accepted apps to see how they organized their military descriptions if the app itself is confusing to you.
  • They couldn't protect all of their trade ships, that is true, but my point was specifically that you wouldn't fully control the straits of Malacca because presumably European and Asian colonial control over the area and the seas would be rapidly rising. We have several nations who are directly interested in the trade there, and we are in the era when nations had strong enough navies to crush large pirate fleets completely, look at what happened to the Barbary Wars or to Ching Shih. It doesn't mean that your pirates need to be defeated in the IC or anything like that, just that there would most likely be a rising presence of national fleets in the waters around Malacca. The Zhu player has also told you that in the present, the Zhu would not be allied with you, which makes sense seeing as they'd be interested in trade with the Europeans. You can try to to discuss it with other players to see if anyone else would be willing to support you in the present.
  • You do not understand the concept of a point of divergence. You can do anything in regards to naming provinces, yes, this is alternative history, but with an explanation. We're not a fiction roleplay here, we're one of alternative history which means that like I said, you need real life to diverge into this alternative history at some point, which you are not mentioning. If those real life states no longer existed by the time your pirate states were starting to become a thing, then you need to explain why. Look at the role - we are willing to accept a lot of things if properly explained, but you need to have a clear divergence and to explain things. You do not - your pirate states just appear out of nothing without explaining what would have happened to the region for history to diverge like that.

    As an added point, Johor controlled territory in Sumatra in the 18th century.

    What I wanted you to say is once again, to explain things - you can't just handwave them. Why was piracy a thing much more so than in real life? Why were the states there so weak as to be conquered by pirates. How did the newly created pirate states gain legitimacy and evolve into sultanates, and finally, why did all these pirate states decide to band together.

And if you think that my critiques are petty, I'm sorry that they look like that, I am simply trying to help you to make an acceptable app because neither of your app versions so far would or could have been accepted.
I'm a Romanian, a vampire, an anime enthusiast and a roleplayer.
Hello there! I am Tracian Empire! You can call me Tracian, Thrace, Thracian, Thracr, Thracc or whatever you want. Really.

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Madrinpoor
Minister
 
Posts: 2255
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Madrinpoor » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:01 am

Tracian Empire wrote:
  • Formatting is important, I mean your very answer has a formatting issue which in turn makes it more difficult to read.
  • Discuss history with other players. Like I said, you'd have two or three nations directly hostile to your pirates, maybe talk with one of the players to have it so that there was a military expedition planned against some of your states some time ago, I don't know. It's your concept.
  • Yes, as I've pointed out several times, you were not following the proper way the app should be organized. You were adding explanations where things only had to be mentioned, you were adding explanations about things where there shouldn't have been, and then complained in the description sections that you had to repeat yourself, when, had you followed the app as it should have been followed, this wouldn't have happened.
  • I am a bit confused by the comparison with knights but I will look at it in the app
  • Social welfare systems have existed for most of humanity's history, that is true, but not social-market capitalism.
  • You answered your own question. Capitalism would be your economic ideology, maybe mixed depending on the exact role of the state, or even state capitalism if the pirate fleets are completely controlled by the state. The role of piracy should then go to economic description.
  • You are once again sort of condescending here. You explained the role and size of these small armies, but I omitted what I asked you to add - recruitment, and equipment.
  • You said that the junks were adopted from the Chinese and then modified with cannons, when the Zhu themselves would have modernized junks, it wasn't a critique as much as me trying to see how much inspiration your fleets were taking from the Zhu, as in whether you had older junks that were modernized by your pirates, or constantly take over models of more modern junks from the Zhu.
  • Slaves and weapons wouldn't be particularly traded, spices would be the most important transport, and presumably also stuff like tea, but my point was simply that European and Asian trade would be defended, so your pirates would be mainly thriving off of fleets that they can overwhelm or merchant ships that aren't guarded or armed.
  • If it looks out of context that that's because you are not following the proper app format. Look at other accepted apps to see how they organized their military descriptions if the app itself is confusing to you.
  • They couldn't protect all of their trade ships, that is true, but my point was specifically that you wouldn't fully control the straits of Malacca because presumably European and Asian colonial control over the area and the seas would be rapidly rising. We have several nations who are directly interested in the trade there, and we are in the era when nations had strong enough navies to crush large pirate fleets completely, look at what happened to the Barbary Wars or to Ching Shih. It doesn't mean that your pirates need to be defeated in the IC or anything like that, just that there would most likely be a rising presence of national fleets in the waters around Malacca. The Zhu player has also told you that in the present, the Zhu would not be allied with you, which makes sense seeing as they'd be interested in trade with the Europeans. You can try to to discuss it with other players to see if anyone else would be willing to support you in the present.
  • You do not understand the concept of a point of divergence. You can do anything in regards to naming provinces, yes, this is alternative history, but with an explanation. We're not a fiction roleplay here, we're one of alternative history which means that like I said, you need real life to diverge into this alternative history at some point, which you are not mentioning. If those real life states no longer existed by the time your pirate states were starting to become a thing, then you need to explain why. Look at the role - we are willing to accept a lot of things if properly explained, but you need to have a clear divergence and to explain things. You do not - your pirate states just appear out of nothing without explaining what would have happened to the region for history to diverge like that.

    As an added point, Johor controlled territory in Sumatra in the 18th century.

    What I wanted you to say is once again, to explain things - you can't just handwave them. Why was piracy a thing much more so than in real life? Why were the states there so weak as to be conquered by pirates. How did the newly created pirate states gain legitimacy and evolve into sultanates, and finally, why did all these pirate states decide to band together.

And if you think that my critiques are petty, I'm sorry that they look like that, I am simply trying to help you to make an acceptable app because neither of your app versions so far would or could have been accepted.

Fixed formatting and some organization.

I explained the army. I said that the armies are private armies, like PSCs in real life. Essentially mercenaries. They are owned by the Sultans and if the Sultans need to they can call a draft, all of which I specified. Likely they would be using like cutlasses or rifles, as most armies used at this time. I think I added that if I haven't I will go fix that.

I never said I control the strait of Malacca. I just said my pirates are active around it, because there is a lot of treasure going through and treasure beings pirates.

[*]I am a bit confused by the comparison with knights but I will look at it in the app
What is to be confused about?

[*]You do not understand the concept of a point of divergence. You can do anything in regards to naming provinces, yes, this is alternative history, but with an explanation. We're not a fiction roleplay here, we're one of alternative history which means that like I said, you need real life to diverge into this alternative history at some point, which you are not mentioning. If those real life states no longer existed by the time your pirate states were starting to become a thing, then you need to explain why. Look at the role - we are willing to accept a lot of things if properly explained, but you need to have a clear divergence and to explain things. You do not - your pirate states just appear out of nothing without explaining what would have happened to the region for history to diverge like that.
Piracy was and is a big deal. That area has, today in RL, the second highest rate of piracy after East Africa. Just in my storyline the pirates, under the leadership of Atang, began establishing sultanates. What is not diverged or confusing about that?
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