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American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Punished UMN
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6163
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:37 pm

Eahland wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:And? That does not excuse that FDR committed arguably the biggest human rights violation in US history, in direct violation of the Constitution. His achievements don't negate that he put his own people in concentration camps, auctioned off their property, and deported tens of thousands of them for dubious reasons.

Hahahahaha no.

I'm not downplaying the severity of the Japanese internment, but we've done way, way worse. For starters, look at basically any interaction the U.S. has ever had with the native population. And do I need to remind you that literal millions of people were held as chattel slaves over a period of more than 75 years (and much longer before it was technically "US history"), with lingering effects even up to this day, and most of our pre-Civil War Presidents not only endorsed this practice, but participated in it?

There is fundamentally a political difference between them, and that is the friend-enemy distinction. The Japanese-Americans were American citizens, the others were not, that is to say, FDR is the US president who committed war crimes against his own people.

That said, you're absolutely right, and I worded my post incredibly poorly.
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Picairn
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10550
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:37 pm

San Lumen wrote:excellent hopefully Democrats can find a way to get it to pass the Senate.

10 Republican votes? Not a chance.
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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:38 pm

the world's greatest deliberative body
Image
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Sundiata
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9755
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:40 pm

Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.
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A-Series-Of-Tubes
Minister
 
Posts: 2708
Founded: Dec 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby A-Series-Of-Tubes » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:40 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:
Trying to help everyone means helping the 1% as well.

There's some point between 75% and 99% where a left-of-center government has to draw the line, and say "you people don't need government help, you've already helped yourself plenty".

That said, I wouldn't go much below 75%. It's political suicide to disdain the middle class.


Well someone should have thought of that about 70 years ago.


The percentage of income going to the top 1% reached a low in the late 70's, at 11%. Since about 1980 that has been rising and is now around 20%

The UK over the same time rose from 6% to 14%, and Canada from 8% to 14%

"70 years ago" is so unfounded in facts, I assume you're trying to deflect the blame from Reaganomics to ... I don't even know ... deficit spending on the Korean War or something?
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Loeje
Minister
 
Posts: 3220
Founded: Feb 02, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Loeje » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:41 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.

I don't disagree with that. We all know that it's a lot of money.
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Picairn
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Posts: 10550
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:43 pm

Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

Send this to the Senate Hall of Fame alongside Inhofe holding a snowball and Mike "Reagan riding a dinosaur" Lee please.
Last edited by Picairn on Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Posts: 14813
Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:44 pm

My girlfriend: He's probably thinking about other women right now.

My brain: Image
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Sundiata
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Posts: 9755
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:45 pm

Loeje wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.

I don't disagree with that. We all know that it's a lot of money.

For most of its citizens the United States is a failing state. But honestly, it was inevitably going to fail from the start.
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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:47 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:My girlfriend: He's probably thinking about other women right now.

My brain: (Image)

The Republican Party is a cult these days. It's past peak Mccarthy.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
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A-Series-Of-Tubes
Minister
 
Posts: 2708
Founded: Dec 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby A-Series-Of-Tubes » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:48 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.


This is why the Australian parliament forbids "props". If a member wants to make a dumb point like that they have to read it aloud (while being heckled) which a mathematically-challenged member probably would not venture to.

"One mile, as we all know, is 63 point three six oh inches, meaning that ..."
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Shu Chengdu
Envoy
 
Posts: 249
Founded: Feb 19, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Shu Chengdu » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:50 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:My girlfriend: He's probably thinking about other women right now.

My brain: (Image)

The Republican Party is a cult these days.


Whatever makes you think that?...
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Umeria
Senator
 
Posts: 4423
Founded: Mar 05, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Umeria » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 pm

A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:Trying to help everyone means helping the 1% as well.

So? Proportionally it's negligible to them, and it doesn't increase the total cost all that much since they only make up 1% of the population. Means-testing, no matter how careful you are, leads to some people who need the money not getting it.
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Loeje
Minister
 
Posts: 3220
Founded: Feb 02, 2021
Democratic Socialists

Postby Loeje » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Loeje wrote:I don't disagree with that. We all know that it's a lot of money.

For most of its citizens the United States is a failing state. But honestly, it was inevitably going to fail from the start.

I don't know that it was always inevitable. But right now, yeah, that sounds pretty accurate.
Alles hat ein Ende, nur die Wurst hat zwei.
Everything has an end, only sausage has two.
Pro: Music education, dogs (and one cat), tea, Christianity, books, Christmas, trains
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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:54 pm

Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:excellent hopefully Democrats can find a way to get it to pass the Senate.

10 Republican votes? Not a chance.


Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

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Sundiata
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9755
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:54 pm

A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.


This is why the Australian parliament forbids "props". If a member wants to make a dumb point like that they have to read it aloud (while being heckled) which a mathematically-challenged member probably would not venture to.

"One mile, as we all know, is 63 point three six oh inches, meaning that ..."

The United States is unfortunately not a full democracy though. I believe that its politicians are too compromised to get any substantive change accomplished. With the increased liquidation of all facets of American life, the populace is doomed to the power of private tyrannies.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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The Black Forrest
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59106
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:54 pm



Oh poor him.

I am sure he is shedding tears as he deposits his payouts.

Wonder what was the total of his golden parachute?
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Sundiata
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9755
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:57 pm

Shu Chengdu wrote:
Sundiata wrote:The Republican Party is a cult these days.


Whatever makes you think that?...

The Republican Party with pride embraces everything ugly about the United States.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Picairn
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10550
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:58 pm

San Lumen wrote:Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

Maybe you can bring this suggestion to Manchin and Sinema.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Social democrat, passionate political observer, and naval warfare enthusiast.
More NSG-y than NSG veterans
♛ The Empire of Picairn ♛
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
Colonel (Brevet) of the North Pacific Army, COO of Warzone Trinidad

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:00 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Picairn wrote:10 Republican votes? Not a chance.


Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

No.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:00 pm

Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

Maybe you can bring this suggestion to Manchin and Sinema.


I wish I was in the Senate could propose that.

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:01 pm

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

No.

Why not? Why should 60 votes be needed to do anything?

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Sundiata
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9755
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:02 pm

Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

Maybe you can bring this suggestion to Manchin and Sinema.
Their donors don't want them to have that talk.
"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva

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Picairn
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10550
Founded: Feb 21, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Picairn » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:02 pm

San Lumen wrote:I wish I was in the Senate could propose that.

Mail them or something.
Picairn's Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Minister: Edward H. Cornell
WA Ambassador: John M. Terry (Active)
Factbook | Constitution | Newspaper
Social democrat, passionate political observer, and naval warfare enthusiast.
More NSG-y than NSG veterans
♛ The Empire of Picairn ♛
-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-—————————-✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯-
Colonel (Brevet) of the North Pacific Army, COO of Warzone Trinidad

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Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7059
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:03 pm

Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I wish I was in the Senate could propose that.

Mail them or something.

Like they're gonna listen to one piece of mail from somebody in a state they don't even represent.

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