by The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:42 am
by Silvedania » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:56 am
Jedinsto wrote:Pretty sure it's illegal for game mechanics
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by The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:06 am
Jedinsto wrote:Pretty sure it's illegal for game mechanics
by Separatist Peoples » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:54 am
by Greater Cesnica » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:01 pm
4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Frontier Isles » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:04 pm
Greater Cesnica wrote:4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.
This doesn't really work out too well. Let's take two IRL currencies: the US Dollar, and the Japanese Yen. As of the time I am typing this, 5000 Japanese Yen is equivalent to 46.86 US Dollars, whereas 5000 US dollars is equivalent to 533460 Japanese Yen. You can't choose an arbitrary amount of currency for the purposes of mandating UBI on an international scale, as currency strengths and the valuation of currencies themselves in relation to other currencies vary wildly from nation to nation.
by Greater Cesnica » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 pm
Frontier Isles wrote:Greater Cesnica wrote:4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.
This doesn't really work out too well. Let's take two IRL currencies: the US Dollar, and the Japanese Yen. As of the time I am typing this, 5000 Japanese Yen is equivalent to 46.86 US Dollars, whereas 5000 US dollars is equivalent to 533460 Japanese Yen. You can't choose an arbitrary amount of currency for the purposes of mandating UBI on an international scale, as currency strengths and the valuation of currencies themselves in relation to other currencies vary wildly from nation to nation.
But this is NationStates. All currencies are worth the same in NationStates (1 unit of any currency = 1 Standard Monetary Unit in NS).
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Frontier Isles » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:19 pm
The Blue Star Union wrote:The World Assembly:
2. Establishes a system in which an income free from taxation and/or deduction is given in equal amount to every citizen of majority regardless of religion, social status or class, sexuality, race, gender or gender identity, nationality, species (if it may apply to animal, extraterrestrial, or artificial or synthetic life), or occupation.
3. Encourages nations to pile on income in addition to the Universal Basic Income if said nations so choose.
4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.
by The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:11 pm
Frontier Isles wrote:The Blue Star Union wrote:The World Assembly:
2. Establishes a system in which an income free from taxation and/or deduction is given in equal amount to every citizen of majority regardless of religion, social status or class, sexuality, race, gender or gender identity, nationality, species (if it may apply to animal, extraterrestrial, or artificial or synthetic life), or occupation.
3. Encourages nations to pile on income in addition to the Universal Basic Income if said nations so choose.
4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.
I would think that 5000 per month is way to much: 5000*12=60000 per year. The average real-life person in the UK makes 42330 pounds sterling per year. Switching the focus back to NS, how do you expect governments to pay for all of that?
Secondly, you want this basic income to be tax-free. In other words, we're looking at the "Average Disposable Income" (ADI) of a nation. In the world rankings of NS for ADI, having an ADI at around 50000 currencies already places you in the top 20% in the world. In other words, more than 80% of NS nations can't achieve your proposed standard.
I would suggest lowering your standard by a lot. (I mean, Andrew Yang, who briefly ran for President of the United States, suggested $1000 per month).
by The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:32 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:The Blue Star Union wrote:After reviewing the proposal guidelines, this proposal is legal, as it is not a change to the game itself or how it functions. There is some language that promotes non-compliance or opting out, which will be revised
Ooc: it does seem to conflict with GAR#17.
by Separatist Peoples » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:23 pm
by Scalizagasti » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:52 pm
by Greater Cesnica » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:04 pm
Scalizagasti wrote:"Opposed on principle. If member states want to implement a basic income program they can do it themselves, there is no reason to force it using the World Assembly."
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San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
by Zarnicovia nova » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:15 pm
by Graintfjall » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:18 pm
by The Blue Star Union » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:28 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:The Blue Star Union wrote:
What might we change to remove such confliction?
Edit: I don't see too much conflict with the WA General Fund Act (GAR#17). Could you please elaborate?
Ooc: any conflict is too much conflict. GAR#17 leaves domestic taxation questions to individual states. Any attempt to make income tax free would itself run afoul of that guarantee.
by Ardiveds » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:34 am
Graintfjall wrote:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=26911746#p26911746
by The Blue Star Union » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:44 am
by Clton » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:45 am
by Separatist Peoples » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:52 am
The Blue Star Union wrote:Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: any conflict is too much conflict. GAR#17 leaves domestic taxation questions to individual states. Any attempt to make income tax free would itself run afoul of that guarantee.
Okay, that makes sense, but if nations choose to tax this income, there would be a loophole in compliance where the entirety could be taxed and the net gain of any citizen would be zeroed.
by Separatist Peoples » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:53 am
The Blue Star Union wrote:Ardiveds wrote:OOC: What about this? How did this not cover UBI?
Other than that how exactly is a an arbitrary five thousand units remotely viable for different econmies with different values of currency?
Because this is nationstates, every currency has EXACTLY the same value, like one of my Corras is equal to one of your Runadts. Economic output in NS is measured in Standard Monetary Units and five thousand is perfectly valid assuming population grows in proportion to economy.
by Greater Cesnica » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:55 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:The Blue Star Union wrote:
Because this is nationstates, every currency has EXACTLY the same value, like one of my Corras is equal to one of your Runadts. Economic output in NS is measured in Standard Monetary Units and five thousand is perfectly valid assuming population grows in proportion to economy.
Ooc: this is not the case.
Frontier Isles wrote:Greater Cesnica wrote:4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.
This doesn't really work out too well. Let's take two IRL currencies: the US Dollar, and the Japanese Yen. As of the time I am typing this, 5000 Japanese Yen is equivalent to 46.86 US Dollars, whereas 5000 US dollars is equivalent to 533460 Japanese Yen. You can't choose an arbitrary amount of currency for the purposes of mandating UBI on an international scale, as currency strengths and the valuation of currencies themselves in relation to other currencies vary wildly from nation to nation.
But this is NationStates. All currencies are worth the same in NationStates (1 unit of any currency = 1 Standard Monetary Unit in NS).
Sic Semper Tyrannis.
WA Discord Server
Authorship Dispatch
WA Ambassador: Slick McCooley
Firearm Rights are Human Rights
privacytools.io - Use these tools to safeguard your online activities, freedoms, and safety
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novemberstars#8888 on Discord
San Lumen wrote:You are ridiculous.George Orwell wrote:“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
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