GUN TALK: Doubletap

[Phoenix2012]

That’s awesome, and I didn’t realize that was possible. I think I could build a lower out of wood easier then I could machine one out of aluminium. I don’t have much experience with metalwork, but I’m a fair carpenter.

only issue is it'll be heavier and less durable.

The issue with many polymer lowers is that they try to keep the aluminium lower dimension without reinforcing parts that need to be. There's lowers like the gwacs and ke arms polymer lowers that solve the problem with reinforcement and making the grip and stock as part of the lower. If you did it right, I don't see why a beefier wooden lower wouldn't last thousands of rounds if you weren't taking it apart all the time. The hammer/trigger pin holes would probably wear but if you had metal bushings for those and used bolts for the takedown pins sort of like the early Colt SP1s and such it'd solve the issue.

[Miku the Based]

Should we set up a new poll?

[Pax Nerdvana]

That’s awesome, and I didn’t realize that was possible. I think I could build a lower out of wood easier then I could machine one out of aluminum. I don’t have much experience with metalwork, but I’m a fair carpenter.

Yeah wood will work for a lower. Here is a guy that made a lower out of a piece of 2x8, took him all about 4-5 hours to make, that was back in 2014.

Before you know it, you will need a background check to buy products at Home Depot/Lowes, etc.

I’ve seen that picture before. I was always curious about how well it held up, because it looks like he did a good job with it.
I hope Home Depot doesn’t start doing background checks.

Yeah wood will work for a lower. Here is a guy that made a lower out of a piece of 2x8, took him all about 4-5 hours to make, that was back in 2014.

Before you know it, you will need a background check to buy products at Home Depot/Lowes, etc.

Now, drilling the third hole is easier than ever.

Full Caveman Auto.

Grug no need stick when Grug have gat.

Should we set up a new poll?

I’m not gonna change the poll yet. This one’s only been up for a month.

[Abbeyverne]

I don’t know why, but some corner of my mind is wondering how easy it would be to machine my own AR lower out of a block of aluminum. This is probably a dumb train of thought that might lead to me blowing off a finger.

Get a good CNC mill, with a fancy end mill bit, and use a program like Fusion 360 to create a G-code. And talk to the ATF. Or they'll shoot your dog, wife, and child.

[Abbeyverne]

only issue is it'll be heavier and less durable.

The issue with many polymer lowers is that they try to keep the aluminium lower dimension without reinforcing parts that need to be. There's lowers like the gwacs and ke arms polymer lowers that solve the problem with reinforcement and making the grip and stock as part of the lower. If you did it right, I don't see why a beefier wooden lower wouldn't last thousands of rounds if you weren't taking it apart all the time. The hammer/trigger pin holes would probably wear but if you had metal bushings for those and used bolts for the takedown pins sort of like the early Colt SP1s and such it'd solve the issue.

Along polymer lines, as Brandon Herrera found out, make sure you use the correct units, small differences will determine if you've got a gun or a busted hand.

[Adamede]

That’s awesome, and I didn’t realize that was possible. I think I could build a lower out of wood easier then I could machine one out of aluminum. I don’t have much experience with metalwork, but I’m a fair carpenter.

Yeah wood will work for a lower. Here is a guy that made a lower out of a piece of 2x8, took him all about 4-5 hours to make, that was back in 2014.

Before you know it, you will need a background check to buy products at Home Depot/Lowes, etc.

Time to ban 2x4’s I guess.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Plywood lower with a 50 bmg upper

That’s awesome, and I didn’t realize that was possible. I think I could build a lower out of wood easier then I could machine one out of aluminium. I don’t have much experience with metalwork, but I’m a fair carpenter.

Granted, warpage and shrinkage over time is going to impact accuracy somewhat.*

Since the assembly-pins effectively function as a trunion in a mortise and tenon joint.

And those aren't really intended for being fooled around with after they've been assembled.

*In trials, it was found to be a moot point, since pressure exerted with your for-hand pulling the upper towards the shoulder usually ate up any slack and wobble in the assembly.

[Goatmoon]

ZPAP92 vs WBP Mini Jack/Lynx

[Pax Nerdvana]

I don’t know why, but some corner of my mind is wondering how easy it would be to machine my own AR lower out of a block of aluminum. This is probably a dumb train of thought that might lead to me blowing off a finger.

Get a good CNC mill, with a fancy end mill bit, and use a program like Fusion 360 to create a G-code. And talk to the ATF. Or they'll shoot your dog, wife, and child.

I would love to get a CNC machine, but I don’t have the money or space for one.

Yeah wood will work for a lower. Here is a guy that made a lower out of a piece of 2x8, took him all about 4-5 hours to make, that was back in 2014.

Before you know it, you will need a background check to buy products at Home Depot/Lowes, etc.

Time to ban 2x4’s I guess.

And flat stock.

That’s awesome, and I didn’t realize that was possible. I think I could build a lower out of wood easier then I could machine one out of aluminium. I don’t have much experience with metalwork, but I’m a fair carpenter.

Granted, warpage and shrinkage over time is going to impact accuracy somewhat.*

Since the assembly-pins effectively function as a trunion in a mortise and tenon joint.

And those aren't really intended for being fooled around with after they've been assembled.

*In trials, it was found to be a moot point, since pressure exerted with your for-hand pulling the upper towards the shoulder usually ate up any slack and wobble in the assembly.

That makes sense. Is there a page with more info on this build?

[Phoenix2012]

I've never heard anything about upper/lower fit impacting accuracy in any way and I can't think of any non extreme scenario where that would be the case. AR upp/lower fit can vary dramatically especially when you start mixing and matching, I've seen some that need to be beaten with a mallet and others that have 1/8 inch gaps and they all functioned reliably. If anything it would be a reliability issue if it's not properly aligning the fire control group, buffer tube, or the magazine but the upper is a self contained unit and that's where the accuracy potential comes from. Mechanical accuracy as far as I'm concerned happens from the bolt forwards. Lower could affect function and reliability but shouldn't have anything to do with accuracy in any meaningful way.

[Big Jim P]

For sure. The right materials are important.
Originally being designed to be casted would actually make sense. Easier for mass production.
I would’ve thought wood wouldn’t be the most ideal material for making a lower.

Plywood lower with a 50 bmg upper
For casting you can make your own green casting sand. Pretty easy ingredients. Silica sand, Bentonite Clay, and synthetic 2 cycle motor oil.

Righteous!

[North Rosmana]

Just curious, but if the Netherlands ever allowed citizen firearm ownership, what would the best SHTF gun be for us?

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Just curious, but if the Netherlands ever allowed citizen firearm ownership, what would the best SHTF gun be for us?

Montenegro. Go to Montenegro, make shooting motions, someone will sell you a gun.

What kind of gun? Don't be fussy. Whatever kind of gun you can get, without breaking the law.

[North Rosmana]

Just curious, but if the Netherlands ever allowed citizen firearm ownership, what would the best SHTF gun be for us?

Montenegro. Go to Montenegro, make shooting motions, someone will sell you a gun.

What kind of gun? Don't be fussy. Whatever kind of gun you can get, without breaking the law.

Why Montenegro though?, I mean its awesome, I have a FB from there.
But why?

Also LOOOOL. Good one.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

Montenegro. Go to Montenegro, make shooting motions, someone will sell you a gun.

What kind of gun? Don't be fussy. Whatever kind of gun you can get, without breaking the law.

Why Montenegro though?, I mean its awesome, I have a FB from there.
But why?

Also LOOOOL. Good one.

I know I'm not supposed to explain the joke, but...

It helps if the gun actually works and you can find ammo.

So do try and avoid .25 ACP.

Also, Paul Harrel needs more love in the polls

[North Rosmana]

Why Montenegro though?, I mean its awesome, I have a FB from there.
But why?

Also LOOOOL. Good one.

I know I'm not supposed to explain the joke, but...

It helps if the gun actually works and you can find ammo.

Oh, haha.

True that, no idea what that would be, maybe ones from Belgium?

I was just thinking out loud.

[Grinning Dragon]

FYI: NATO Standardizes Fabrique Nationale’s (FN) 5.7x28mm Caliber

FN America, LLC is pleased to announce that the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber has been standardized by NATO. The caliber was designed in the late 1980s for use with the FN P90 and FN Five-seveN pistol. With almost three decades of trusted use, the FN 5.7x28mm continues to leverage the groundbreaking design to improve range, accuracy, and terminal performance from small arms. As NATO adds the FN 5.7x28mm to their standard small-caliber ammunition portfolio, FN proudly continues its long legacy of small arms innovation as it enhances service to civilians, law enforcement, and militaries across the globe.

In a continuous effort to promote interchangeability of all small-caliber ammunition used by allied armed forces, NATO has recently finalized the standardization process of the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber by approving the standardization agreement (STANAG) 4509.

The 5.7x28mm caliber is now integrated into the Multi-Caliber Manual Of Proof and Inspection (AEP-97) and joins the standardized NATO small-caliber ammunition portfolio, along with the 9x19mm NATO, the 5.56x45mm NATO, the 7.62x51mm NATO, and the 12.7x99mm NATO (also widely known as the .50 caliber)....

[The Chuck]

FYI: NATO Standardizes Fabrique Nationale’s (FN) 5.7x28mm Caliber

FN America, LLC is pleased to announce that the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber has been standardized by NATO. The caliber was designed in the late 1980s for use with the FN P90 and FN Five-seveN pistol. With almost three decades of trusted use, the FN 5.7x28mm continues to leverage the groundbreaking design to improve range, accuracy, and terminal performance from small arms. As NATO adds the FN 5.7x28mm to their standard small-caliber ammunition portfolio, FN proudly continues its long legacy of small arms innovation as it enhances service to civilians, law enforcement, and militaries across the globe.

In a continuous effort to promote interchangeability of all small-caliber ammunition used by allied armed forces, NATO has recently finalized the standardization process of the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber by approving the standardization agreement (STANAG) 4509.

The 5.7x28mm caliber is now integrated into the Multi-Caliber Manual Of Proof and Inspection (AEP-97) and joins the standardized NATO small-caliber ammunition portfolio, along with the 9x19mm NATO, the 5.56x45mm NATO, the 7.62x51mm NATO, and the 12.7x99mm NATO (also widely known as the .50 caliber)....

And now... it can be considered a NATO cartridge

[Adamede]

FYI: NATO Standardizes Fabrique Nationale’s (FN) 5.7x28mm Caliber

FN America, LLC is pleased to announce that the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber has been standardized by NATO. The caliber was designed in the late 1980s for use with the FN P90 and FN Five-seveN pistol. With almost three decades of trusted use, the FN 5.7x28mm continues to leverage the groundbreaking design to improve range, accuracy, and terminal performance from small arms. As NATO adds the FN 5.7x28mm to their standard small-caliber ammunition portfolio, FN proudly continues its long legacy of small arms innovation as it enhances service to civilians, law enforcement, and militaries across the globe.

In a continuous effort to promote interchangeability of all small-caliber ammunition used by allied armed forces, NATO has recently finalized the standardization process of the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber by approving the standardization agreement (STANAG) 4509.

The 5.7x28mm caliber is now integrated into the Multi-Caliber Manual Of Proof and Inspection (AEP-97) and joins the standardized NATO small-caliber ammunition portfolio, along with the 9x19mm NATO, the 5.56x45mm NATO, the 7.62x51mm NATO, and the 12.7x99mm NATO (also widely known as the .50 caliber)....

Finally, after what, 20+ years?

[Abbeyverne]

FYI: NATO Standardizes Fabrique Nationale’s (FN) 5.7x28mm Caliber

FN America, LLC is pleased to announce that the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber has been standardized by NATO. The caliber was designed in the late 1980s for use with the FN P90 and FN Five-seveN pistol. With almost three decades of trusted use, the FN 5.7x28mm continues to leverage the groundbreaking design to improve range, accuracy, and terminal performance from small arms. As NATO adds the FN 5.7x28mm to their standard small-caliber ammunition portfolio, FN proudly continues its long legacy of small arms innovation as it enhances service to civilians, law enforcement, and militaries across the globe.

In a continuous effort to promote interchangeability of all small-caliber ammunition used by allied armed forces, NATO has recently finalized the standardization process of the FN-designed 5.7x28mm caliber by approving the standardization agreement (STANAG) 4509.

The 5.7x28mm caliber is now integrated into the Multi-Caliber Manual Of Proof and Inspection (AEP-97) and joins the standardized NATO small-caliber ammunition portfolio, along with the 9x19mm NATO, the 5.56x45mm NATO, the 7.62x51mm NATO, and the 12.7x99mm NATO (also widely known as the .50 caliber)....

Yay! Doesn't matter tho, can't find any anywhere. Or any other caliber for that matter.

[Pax Nerdvana]

FYI: NATO Standardizes Fabrique Nationale’s (FN) 5.7x28mm Caliber

Yay! Doesn't matter tho, can't find any anywhere. Or any other caliber for that matter.

And there’s the fact that there are only two or three guns that are chambered in it.

[Miku the Based]

Yay! Doesn't matter tho, can't find any anywhere. Or any other caliber for that matter.

Yep, but since it's classified as a nato round I bet they are planning on making something else in that round which will increase supply of the round in Europe at least.

[Abbeyverne]

Yay! Doesn't matter tho, can't find any anywhere. Or any other caliber for that matter.

And there’s the fact that there are only two or three guns that are chambered in it.

Yeah, but one of them is the Ruger 57.... which I kind of really sort of want.

[Mercatus]

Yay! Doesn't matter tho, can't find any anywhere. Or any other caliber for that matter.

And there’s the fact that there are only two or three guns that are chambered in it.

To be exact, there are 9 firearms (to my knowledge) that are chambered for 5.7. The Fiveseven pistol from FN, the P90 from FN, the KelTec P50 from KelTec (duh), the Ruger 57, the CMMG Banshee that takes Fiveseven mags, a carbine and pistol from Masterpiece Arms, and finally a carbine and pistol from Excel Arms.

Also, anyone else think Hi-Point should jump on the 5.7 bandwagon? Also, we need Tula and Wolf to make cheap steel case shit in that caliber.

[Grinning Dragon]

And there’s the fact that there are only two or three guns that are chambered in it.

To be exact, there are 9 firearms (to my knowledge) that are chambered for 5.7. The Fiveseven pistol from FN, the P90 from FN, the KelTec P50 from KelTec (duh), the Ruger 57, the CMMG Banshee that takes Fiveseven mags, a carbine and pistol from Masterpiece Arms, and finally a carbine and pistol from Excel Arms.

Also, anyone else think Hi-Point should jump on the 5.7 bandwagon? Also, we need Tula and Wolf to make cheap steel case shit in that caliber.

CMMG offers a conversion kit, an upper and a mag. Price-wise almost as spendy as buying a new rifle.