Are gangs always a problem?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I'm sure we all have seen at least one hood film in our life. The movies often portray gang life in the inner city among black and hispanic youths and the dangers of it, such as murder and prison time, and we all have seen the endless news reports that have come out of the war on the streets of Chicago, with names like the Vice Lords, the Latin Kings, the Gangster Disciples and the Black P Stones being thrown around in them. Or you've seen news reports out of Los Angeles on the latest violence between the crips and Florencia 13. But are gangs always bad? What even constitutes a gang? Is a gang just a group of people who associate with each other? Or is it a group that commits crime together? How organized does the group have to be to be a gang? Is there a certain number of members required before a group is a gang? And were inner city gangs always this dangerous? I think the trouble with talking about gang violence often comes down to the struggle to define what a gang even is, because while we know who definitely is a gang (the Bloods often come to mind), we often disagree on where the cutoff line is between gang and not a gang. This has led to a disagreement among people in my own state about whether Detroit has a history of gang violence or not, with the issue being more complicated than simply "there definitely are or definitely aren't gangs." So what is your opinion NSG? Do gangs refer simply to crime groups and are gangs always a problem, and what even is a gang anyway?

[Resilient Acceleration]

Well, depends. In my country, many street thugs and gang members are eventually recruited by local or religious unions and become a "non-governmental organization". Usually they either become (1) an organized, government-approved racketeering group that are allowed to extort local businesses in exchange for their participation in upholding public order, (2) an organized thug group owned by political interests, usually religious, (3) both, or (4) recruited directly into local police corps whose task is to do local governments' dirty job such as evicting illegal slums standing in the way of real estate interests.

The rest would depend on the crime they're involved in, and dealt with accordingly. Drug traffickers, but also motor gangs, vehice robbery groups, etc.

[Major-Tom]

I miss the impeccable street choreography of the gangs portrayed in old-timey movies.

"When you're a jet, you're a jet all the way baby."

[Astral Traveller]

A gang in its definition is a group that commits criminal activity, so yes it's per definition a problem.

[Jabberwocky]

Chinese were writing about gang problems 2000 years B. C.

[Ancapimania]

The UK is full of gangs.

[Risottia]

I'm sure we all have seen at least one hood film in our life.

Yes, I remember a thing about a gang whose leader was called "Robber Hood" or something like that. The were a sort of all-white Anglo an-cap libertarians armed with improvised weapons who refused to pay the due taxes to the legitimate government of the country, yelling "freedum" and attacking the local sheriff constantly.

[Saiwania]

Gangs usually refer to criminal groups but a broader definition could include fraternal organizations or whatever other type of group that doesn't have to be inherently criminal. Sometimes its really just a group of people with common interests and identity.

[Side 3]

Well the definition of gang is "an organized group of criminals," so I'd say that answers the question of whether or not they exist/what they are. And yes, they are a problem. Although a lot of people try to paint gangs as "families," they're not. They're like an abusive spouse. They'll exploit you and use you, and then throw you away when you're no longer useful. But unfortunately, a lot of the people in them come crawling back because they don't have anyone else to turn to. So yes, they are always a problem, and one that really needs to be dealt with.

[The New California Republic]

The UK is full of gangs.

Yes and no. It depends where you are.

[Resilient Acceleration]

Well the definition of gang is "an organized group of criminals," so I'd say that answers the question of whether or not they exist/what they are. And yes, they are a problem. Although a lot of people try to paint gangs as "families," they're not. They're like an abusive spouse. They'll exploit you and use you, and then throw you away when you're no longer useful. But unfortunately, a lot of the people in them come crawling back because they don't have anyone else to turn to. So yes, they are always a problem, and one that really needs to be dealt with.

Still, in most cases, poverty levels and social mobility is directly related to the prevalence of criminal gang activity, so 'curing' the latter can only be done if we cure the former. In my country, violent gangs are shot on the spot during the military dictatorship while less violent gangs are allowed. Many surviving gang leaders eventually became politicians with control over government spending, and can thus support subordinate gangs by directly giving them taxpayer money in exchange for political support. This reduces the need for violent crime.

Political power also grants access to the planning of public security, which allows for peaceful conflict resolutions or an orderly distribution of racketeering territories. Most notorious here would be the Pemuda Pancasila, a thug group involved in the 1966-67 genocide whose current vice leader is the speaker of the national parliament. I guess that's one way to, uh, solve gang violence.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Well, depends. In my country, many street thugs and gang members are eventually recruited by local or religious unions and become a "non-governmental organization". Usually they either become (1) an organized, government-approved racketeering group that are allowed to extort local businesses in exchange for their participation in upholding public order, (2) an organized thug group owned by political interests, usually religious, (3) both, or (4) recruited directly into local police corps whose task is to do local governments' dirty job such as evicting illegal slums standing in the way of real estate interests.

The rest would depend on the crime they're involved in, and dealt with accordingly. Drug traffickers, but also motor gangs, vehice robbery groups, etc.

Damn, where are u from?

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Well the definition of gang is "an organized group of criminals," so I'd say that answers the question of whether or not they exist/what they are. And yes, they are a problem. Although a lot of people try to paint gangs as "families," they're not. They're like an abusive spouse. They'll exploit you and use you, and then throw you away when you're no longer useful. But unfortunately, a lot of the people in them come crawling back because they don't have anyone else to turn to. So yes, they are always a problem, and one that really needs to be dealt with.

It sounds simple enough but what counts as a group committing criminal acts? Do the acts need to be sanctioned by some head of the group or does a group full of guys who commit criminal acts all the time without being told to count as a gang?

[Salus Maior]

Insofar as they break the law and victimize people, it's a problem.

[Resilient Acceleration]

Well, depends. In my country, many street thugs and gang members are eventually recruited by local or religious unions and become a "non-governmental organization". Usually they either become (1) an organized, government-approved racketeering group that are allowed to extort local businesses in exchange for their participation in upholding public order, (2) an organized thug group owned by political interests, usually religious, (3) both, or (4) recruited directly into local police corps whose task is to do local governments' dirty job such as evicting illegal slums standing in the way of real estate interests.

The rest would depend on the crime they're involved in, and dealt with accordingly. Drug traffickers, but also motor gangs, vehice robbery groups, etc.

Damn, where are u from?

Indonesia. But I mean, they usually only operate on the poorer parts of the city, or on traditional markets. There was actually a TV drama serial about a retired gang boss, and it documented how they extract levy in traditional markets, regulate trade activities, enforce security in the area, fight for territories, etc. To be honest, except on the "fight for territories" part, this is a far more peaceful way for gangs to earn money and I can see why the model stays (especially since the boss are often politicians or public security officials themselves).

A bit of fun fact, the 'local police corps' (many of whom are ex-thugs' are officially called the Pamongpraja Police Unit. Pamongpraja is an institution we inherited from the Dutch, and during colonization years, they are local thugs hired by Dutch corporate interests to oppress plantation laborers and extract harvest quotas. So I guess this model isn't exactly new.

[Side 3]

Well the definition of gang is "an organized group of criminals," so I'd say that answers the question of whether or not they exist/what they are. And yes, they are a problem. Although a lot of people try to paint gangs as "families," they're not. They're like an abusive spouse. They'll exploit you and use you, and then throw you away when you're no longer useful. But unfortunately, a lot of the people in them come crawling back because they don't have anyone else to turn to. So yes, they are always a problem, and one that really needs to be dealt with.

Still, in most cases, poverty levels and social mobility is directly related to the prevalence of criminal gang activity, so 'curing' the latter can only be done if we cure the former.

I agree 100%. Most "gangsters" end up that way due to a lack of any other options to generate income. This in turn leads to gangs having economic control over entire neighborhoods. It's only by improving socio-economic conditions that we are truly going to bring an end to gangs.

[My Political Fantasy]

States are like very big gangs, you pay them money to protect you and provide you services.

[Astral Traveller]

It sounds simple enough but what counts as a group committing criminal acts? Do the acts need to be sanctioned by some head of the group or does a group full of guys who commit criminal acts all the time without being told to count as a gang?

A gang is, per definition, an organized group of criminals. Most crimes are that which produce victims, either by force or removing some sort of freedom. The organization does not matter, because the intent of a gang is to commit crimes. Therefore, it is per definition a problem.

Still, in most cases, poverty levels and social mobility is directly related to the prevalence of criminal gang activity, so 'curing' the latter can only be done if we cure the former.

That does not deny the fact that gangs are a problem (for other citizens). Whilst gangs are a phenom of poor socio-economic environments it does not make their deeds acceptable. I agree that it's merely a symptom of a bigger problem, but in itself, it is a problem as well.

[Atheris]

9/10 times, yeah.

[The Astrocracy]

If you mean criminal gangs, then yes; they are answerable to nobody but themselves, engage in criminal and often violent behavior, and in certain places, they basically control the entire neighborhood, terrorizing its citizenry and suppressing any attempts to stop the through violence and intimidation.

[Adamede]

Effectively speaking yes they are.

[Ethel mermania]

I miss the impeccable street choreography of the gangs portrayed in old-timey movies.

"When you're a jet, you're a jet all the way baby."

They could sing, the could dance, they could act. Not like the crap today.

[Dogmeat]

They are, but they're also a problem that can get better or worse.

Like Herpes.

[Kubra]

A gang is a gang when it engages in organised criminal activity. If it's just dudes hanging out on a block then it's just, y'know, dudes hanging out on a block. Breaking COVID social gathering restrictions doesn't count as organised criminal activity, of course.
a gang is not necessarily a formal organisational structure, a few guys who boost cars together are gang even if they don't have a fancy oath and funny hand signs.

[Herador]

Where I grew up in California the gangs mainly pushed drugs, violence wasn't rare but it wasn't uncommon and a lot of central and south american first gen kids got wrapped up in it. I'd say it wasn't ideal but it wasn't a huge problem. In the California town I moved to in my early 20's gangs were groups of kids who did copious amounts of meth and picked street fights. Harder drugs, bigger problem. Now I live in DC and bodies turn up every day, this is a huge problem and kids,I mean 10 and younger, catch bullets over this shit.

I guess my takeaway is that a gangs ability to cause harm seems to be linked to pop size,though that's anecdotal I'll admit, butI've never seen them be a net positive for a community.