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[DEFEATED] Nuclear Aggression Act

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Grey County
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Founded: Jun 08, 2020
Ex-Nation

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Postby Grey County » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:49 am

I support this proposal and wish you luck

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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Jedinsto » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:50 pm

Change of plans, since the queue is completely empty at the moment, this will be submitted tomorrow at minor.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:00 pm

Two issues.

1. Calculated ambiguity helps deterrence by preventing adversaries from toeing right to the line of what was previously declared and engaging in salami tactics.

2. It's unclear to me whether this would allow member nations to extend nuclear umbrellas. Precluding a nuclear umbrella has pro-proliferation effects, increasing the number of possible miscalculations. Retaliation generally stands for a response, but by focusing on nations rather than alliances thereof, a harmonious reading seems to preclude the kind of deterrence that stopped the Soviet Union from overrunning West Germany.

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:48 pm

You definitely bring up a good point there, and I incorporated nuclear umbrellas into clause 2.

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:12 am

Submitted.

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:23 pm

Officially halfway to quorum

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:56 pm

Quorum reached

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:59 pm

Jedinsto wrote:2. Bans the use of nuclear weapons on other nations, except for retaliating to a massive, or repeated, attack from an armed force, or in response to a biological, chemical, or nuclear weapon strike, to one's own nation, or a nation allied by treaty for the purposes of mutual defense.

This wording solves neither of the problems that I noted.

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:14 pm

It allows for nuclear umbrellas

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:11 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:2. Bans the use of nuclear weapons on other nations, except for retaliating to a massive, or repeated, attack from an armed force, or in response to a biological, chemical, or nuclear weapon strike, to one's own nation, or a nation allied by treaty for the purposes of mutual defense.

This wording solves neither of the problems that I noted.

Because you have commas all over the place (even when not necessary, required, or prudent), I get this diagram:

Bans the use of nuclear weapons on other nations [ except for 1. retaliating to a massive (, or repeated,) attack from an armed force, or 2. in response to a biological, chemical, or nuclear weapon strike (, to one's own nation,) or a nation allied by treaty for the purposes of mutual defense].

Attaching the dangling modifier from your current text to the end of what is marked as '1.' would produce an ungrammatical construct, 'attack from an armed force... to one's own nation', when the correct preposition would be 'on'. Even if it said 'on' and we ignore the commas in accordance with traditional English practice, see eg Larry Eig, 'Statutory Interpretation: General Principles and Recent Trend' (2014) Cong Rsch Serv report 97-589, 13 (available at https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/97-589.pdf), the dangling modifier would only attach to what is marked as '2.' under the rule of the last antecedent. Ibid.

There is a possible interpretation of the section under '2.' as allowing the use of nuclear weapons 'in response to... a nation allied by treaty...' but this would go massively against the intent of the law, which is to restrict nuclear aggression. Allowing the use of nuclear weapons merely because some other nation requests it would do almost nothing to restrain aggressive tendencies.

This yields only one possible interpretation, that a nation may retaliate with nuclear weapons to a massive attack from an armed force. As one cannot be retaliating to attacks on other nations, since that would not be a 'retaliation', it does not admit the use of nuclear weapons on (very lightly disguised) Mega-Allemagne by Albion in response to a massive invasion of Greater Brabant on their way to Gaul.

I think what you wanted to write would be something like:

Bans a member from using nuclear weapons on another nation except in retaliation to (1) a massive or repeated attack from an armed force on or (2) a biological, chemical, or nuclear weapon strike on that member or a nation allied thereto by treaty for the purposes of mutual defence.

Regardless, if I were the author, I would not put any restrictions on use and therefore abandon the draft.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:31 am, edited 6 times in total.

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The Python
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Python » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:48 pm

Support - The use of WMD's is almost all of the time, if not always unethical and bad - in fact one could argue that this does not go far enough as it still allows nations to have supplies of nuclear bombs. Repealing this could help too, but still, support.
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WayNeacTia
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Postby WayNeacTia » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:17 am

This already failed once, and is very likely to fail yet again.
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Grey County
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Founded: Jun 08, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Grey County » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:28 pm

Wayneactia wrote:This already failed once, and is very likely to fail yet again.

He withdrew it last time

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Philimbesi
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Postby Philimbesi » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:23 am

Unfortunately, due to the lack of any semblance of a definition of what might constitute "massive" or "repeated" attacks in clause 2b, essentially rendering this resolution utterly toothless. Combined with our belief that the ability to use nuclear weapons in a preemptive manner should be afforded to any sovereign nation, the USP will not support this resolution when it comes for vote.

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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
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Postby Jedinsto » Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:48 pm

So as to not waste 4 days of everybody's lives, I have decided to pull this, and may make another push for it with refinements in the future.

Edit: New edits have been made for better definitions.
Last edited by Jedinsto on Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ardiveds
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Postby Ardiveds » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:48 pm

OOC: Testing of Nuclear weapons is banned?
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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:49 pm

Ardiveds wrote:OOC: Testing of Nuclear weapons is banned?

If you're testing it on other nations.

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Ardiveds
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Postby Ardiveds » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:51 pm

Jedinsto wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:OOC: Testing of Nuclear weapons is banned?

If you're testing it on other nations.

OOC: Clause 2a bans the use of nukes on a nation's own soil, regardless of the purpose or location.
If the ambassador acts like an ambassador, it's probably Delegate Arthur.
If he acts like an edgy teen, it's probably definitely Delegate Jim.... it's always Jim

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:52 pm

Ardiveds wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:If you're testing it on other nations.

OOC: Clause 2a bans the use of nukes on a nation's own soil, regardless of the purpose or location.

It says "on other nations," read carefully

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Ardiveds
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Founded: Feb 28, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Ardiveds » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:53 pm

Jedinsto wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:OOC: Clause 2a bans the use of nukes on a nation's own soil, regardless of the purpose or location.

It says "on other nations," read carefully

1. Defines for the purposes of this resolution;

a. "nuclear weapon" as a bomb or missile that uses nuclear fission, fusion, or a combination of the two processes to create an explosion,

b. "weapon of mass destruction" as a chemical, biological, or nuclear weapon capable of causing widespread death and destruction in a single strike,

c. "military invasion" as a military force of significant size directed by its government to enter foreign territory in order to cause mass destruction to civilian targets, or to strike a military encampment,

2. Bans the use of nuclear weapons on other nations unless in retaliation to a strike from a weapon of mass destruction, or a military invasion,

a. on one's own nation, or,

b. on a nation allied by treaty for the purposes of mutual defense.
If the ambassador acts like an ambassador, it's probably Delegate Arthur.
If he acts like an edgy teen, it's probably definitely Delegate Jim.... it's always Jim

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The Python
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Python » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:53 pm

I also think this should be repealed as it would allow the GA to pass a resolution to ban nuclear weapons entirely.
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Ardiveds
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ardiveds » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:55 pm

The Python wrote:I also think this should be repealed as it would allow the GA to pass a resolution to ban nuclear weapons entirely.

OOC: Look at GAR 10
If the ambassador acts like an ambassador, it's probably Delegate Arthur.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:58 pm

This has been pulled based on advice given by several GA folks.
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Jedinsto
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Ex-Nation

Postby Jedinsto » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:59 pm

The Python wrote:I also think this should be repealed as it would allow the GA to pass a resolution to ban nuclear weapons entirely.

I cannot support a full ban, and I doubt practically anyone would.

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Maowi
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Postby Maowi » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:57 pm

OOC: Hey, thanks for withdrawing the proposal and giving yourself a chance to work on it some more!

I think as currently written - with the restrictions applying to member states whether they're dealing with other member states or with non-member states - there could be some significant problems with what you're trying to put in place.

Under this proposal, if you're a World Assembly member state dealing with the threat that another member state may launch a nuclear attack on you, you know that they are not permitted to strike first, just as you're not permitted to strike first on them. But you have no such guarantee when you're dealing with non-member states, who may build up their nuclear arsenals as far as they wish with no need to worry about the possibility that you'll take these out via nuclear attack, and who can then strike first to destroy your own nuclear arsenal, leaving you with no ability to retaliate.

I respect and sympathise with your wish to reduce the possibility of the use of nuclear weapons as far as possible, but for mutually-assured destruction to work as a way of keeping things in balance, it has to go both ways.
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