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by Postauthoritarian America » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:46 pm
by Daarwyrth » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:11 am
Greater Mobile wrote:The existence of homophobes is why I don't believe in the concept of "free speech".
by Daarwyrth » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:21 am
by Caraani » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:30 am
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Gongsi wrote:Having bounced around the political spectrum like a pinball, I still don't understand where all this weird nonsense is coming from. Why must everything be so inflated out of proportion that it floats far away from reality? This stuff is like "slippery-slope" turned up to 11!
The slippery slope has been proven to be true in regards to LGBT stuff in the west tbh. Conservatives were right that it wouldn't stop with gay marriage, and I think that's played a large part in pushback against trans people.
by Istoreya » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:38 am
Caraani wrote:Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The slippery slope has been proven to be true in regards to LGBT stuff in the west tbh. Conservatives were right that it wouldn't stop with gay marriage, and I think that's played a large part in pushback against trans people.
I'm pretty sure at least I personally stopped at being allowed to hold hands with my boyfriend and potentially marrying him. I have yet to don myself in drag, or go around with cock-shaped lolipops wearing rainbow dresses and yelling "F*CK HETEROS, I LIKE C*CK"
But hey, maybe you're gay too and have gay friends and can tell me about your experience with all this exageration from our side.
by Greater-Appalachia » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:48 am
Daarwyrth wrote:Greater Mobile wrote:The existence of homophobes is why I don't believe in the concept of "free speech".
I heartily agree. The existence of any kind of -phobes is exactly why I think it's wonderful there are limitations to free speech. Opinions that call for oppression, for the limitation of human rights, for the treatment of certain people as worse, those should rightfully be persecuted by the authorities. People need to be held accountable for spreading or promoting hatred, bigotry and discrimination. Too often people hide behind "freedom of speech" in order to avoid the consequences for their words, which is simply reprehensible to me. You don't get to say whatever you want if it is harmful, hurtful, inflammatory or bigoted in any way shape or form. Freedom of expression can't be and shouldn't be a free pass to spout hatred and division whenever and however you like.
by Istoreya » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:52 am
Greater-Appalachia wrote:Daarwyrth wrote:I heartily agree. The existence of any kind of -phobes is exactly why I think it's wonderful there are limitations to free speech. Opinions that call for oppression, for the limitation of human rights, for the treatment of certain people as worse, those should rightfully be persecuted by the authorities. People need to be held accountable for spreading or promoting hatred, bigotry and discrimination. Too often people hide behind "freedom of speech" in order to avoid the consequences for their words, which is simply reprehensible to me. You don't get to say whatever you want if it is harmful, hurtful, inflammatory or bigoted in any way shape or form. Freedom of expression can't be and shouldn't be a free pass to spout hatred and division whenever and however you like.
I wasn’t going to respond to this thread anymore because it wasn’t worth the effort, but what you just said really grinds my gears. Suppressing the people’s right to speak is a very slippery slope. You start suppressing only a certain type of speech based on your perception of a phobia, but what happens when the government says “government-phobes” are a thing and they start suppressing THAT type of speech? They say government phobia is discriminatory like homophobia is discriminatory, and anything criticizing the government is suddenly banned like your despised “hate speech” is banned. Then it keeps getting worse, they start persecuting these governmentphobes (anybody that criticizes the government), and then when you say “Hey government, you shouldn’t do that, it isn’t fair!”, you are the one behind bars. If you give the government an excuse or opportunity to increase its own power, then it most likely will.
And apart from that, not a lot of people like homophobes (no not religious people, actual homophobes) and other evil-doers, obviously, but it isn’t fair for everybody else to be able to speak our minds and them not. The way you described outlawed speech is anything “harmful, hurtful, inflammatory, or bigoted”. The word harmful is subjective, and that means I can say what YOU just said is harmful to ME and cause YOUR speech (which didn’t intend to harm me) to get YOU in trouble. Your own words described speech that shouldn’t be allowed as anything hurtful, so, if what you just said hurts my feelings, then that falls under the statement and now you need to be persecuted by the authorities, like you said! Guess you’re going to jail now!
by Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:00 am
Greater Mobile wrote:The existence of homophobes is why I don't believe in the concept of "free speech".
by Daarwyrth » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:29 am
Greater-Appalachia wrote:Daarwyrth wrote:I heartily agree. The existence of any kind of -phobes is exactly why I think it's wonderful there are limitations to free speech. Opinions that call for oppression, for the limitation of human rights, for the treatment of certain people as worse, those should rightfully be persecuted by the authorities. People need to be held accountable for spreading or promoting hatred, bigotry and discrimination. Too often people hide behind "freedom of speech" in order to avoid the consequences for their words, which is simply reprehensible to me. You don't get to say whatever you want if it is harmful, hurtful, inflammatory or bigoted in any way shape or form. Freedom of expression can't be and shouldn't be a free pass to spout hatred and division whenever and however you like.
I wasn’t going to respond to this thread anymore because it wasn’t worth the effort, but what you just said really grinds my gears. Suppressing the people’s right to speak is a very slippery slope. You start suppressing only a certain type of speech based on your perception of a phobia, but what happens when the government says “government-phobes” are a thing and they start suppressing THAT type of speech? They say government phobia is discriminatory like homophobia is discriminatory, and anything criticizing the government is suddenly banned like your despised “hate speech” is banned. Then it keeps getting worse, they start persecuting these governmentphobes (anybody that criticizes the government), and then when you say “Hey government, you shouldn’t do that, it isn’t fair!”, you are the one behind bars. If you give the government an excuse or opportunity to increase its own power, then it most likely will.
And apart from that, not a lot of people like homophobes (no not religious people, actual homophobes) and other evil-doers, obviously, but it isn’t fair for everybody else to be able to speak our minds and them not. The way you described outlawed speech is anything “harmful, hurtful, inflammatory, or bigoted”. The word harmful is subjective, and that means I can say what YOU just said is harmful to ME and cause YOUR speech (which didn’t intend to harm me) to get YOU in trouble. Your own words described speech that shouldn’t be allowed as anything hurtful, so, if what you just said hurts my feelings, then that falls under the statement and now you need to be persecuted by the authorities, like you said! Guess you’re going to jail now!
by Marxist Germany » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:07 am
Daarwyrth wrote:Greater Mobile wrote:The existence of homophobes is why I don't believe in the concept of "free speech".
I heartily agree. The existence of any kind of -phobes is exactly why I think it's wonderful there are limitations to free speech. Opinions that call for oppression, for the limitation of human rights, for the treatment of certain people as worse, those should rightfully be persecuted by the authorities. People need to be held accountable for spreading or promoting hatred, bigotry and discrimination. Too often people hide behind "freedom of speech" in order to avoid the consequences for their words, which is simply reprehensible to me. You don't get to say whatever you want if it is harmful, hurtful, inflammatory or bigoted in any way shape or form. Freedom of expression can't be and shouldn't be a free pass to spout hatred and division whenever and however you like.
by Marxist Germany » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:13 am
Daarwyrth wrote:Greater-Appalachia wrote:
I wasn’t going to respond to this thread anymore because it wasn’t worth the effort, but what you just said really grinds my gears. Suppressing the people’s right to speak is a very slippery slope. You start suppressing only a certain type of speech based on your perception of a phobia, but what happens when the government says “government-phobes” are a thing and they start suppressing THAT type of speech? They say government phobia is discriminatory like homophobia is discriminatory, and anything criticizing the government is suddenly banned like your despised “hate speech” is banned. Then it keeps getting worse, they start persecuting these governmentphobes (anybody that criticizes the government), and then when you say “Hey government, you shouldn’t do that, it isn’t fair!”, you are the one behind bars. If you give the government an excuse or opportunity to increase its own power, then it most likely will.
And apart from that, not a lot of people like homophobes (no not religious people, actual homophobes) and other evil-doers, obviously, but it isn’t fair for everybody else to be able to speak our minds and them not. The way you described outlawed speech is anything “harmful, hurtful, inflammatory, or bigoted”. The word harmful is subjective, and that means I can say what YOU just said is harmful to ME and cause YOUR speech (which didn’t intend to harm me) to get YOU in trouble. Your own words described speech that shouldn’t be allowed as anything hurtful, so, if what you just said hurts my feelings, then that falls under the statement and now you need to be persecuted by the authorities, like you said! Guess you’re going to jail now!
First of all, you completely gloss over the fact that there is a fundamental difference between saying "I don't like homosexuality" and "Homosexuals need to die". Obviously, the first phrase isn't pleasant to hear, but it's not immediately harmful. It doesn't affect me in my life, my rights, or my existence. The second phrase is quite harmful however, and can spark acts against gay people. The phrase threatens me, the phrase calls for my death, the phrase treats me as something lesser. This is something you completely failed to address, and I understand why you omitted this distinction. Because only if you leave out this crucial difference can you make the argument you just made in your post. As such, your argument is fundamentally flawed.
As such, your concerns are based upon a fabricated scenario that is specifically catered to your argument and can easily be disproven with examples from the real world. People should have the right to freely express their opinions without the fear of being persecuted by the authorities, as long as those opinions don't infringe upon the human rights of others, the dignity of others, and as long as they are not harmful to others. And that is how various conventions and constitutions like the European Convention on Human Rights already function. So your concerns are for naught.
by The Notorious Mad Jack » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:20 am
Marxist Germany wrote:When people get imprisoned in the UK for misgendering people on Twitter, or for training a pug to raise its right arm, this is tyranny.
by Istoreya » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:10 am
Marxist Germany wrote:When people get imprisoned in the UK for misgendering people on Twitter, or for training a pug to raise its right arm, this is tyranny.
by Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:24 am
Istoreya wrote:Marxist Germany wrote:When people get imprisoned in the UK for misgendering people on Twitter, or for training a pug to raise its right arm, this is tyranny.
Lmao. If you're gonna make a ridiculous claim like that, you've gotta back it up. Show us where someone has been arrested for this. As a British (hobbyist) dog trainer, I especially look forward to your source for the second one.
by Istoreya » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:32 am
Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza wrote:Istoreya wrote:Lmao. If you're gonna make a ridiculous claim like that, you've gotta back it up. Show us where someone has been arrested for this. As a British (hobbyist) dog trainer, I especially look forward to your source for the second one.
He's referring to the Count Dankula dog Nazi salute thing that happened a while ago (2016).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 17751.html
Not an imprisonment but he was still fined for it.
by Novokria » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:32 am
Istoreya wrote:Marxist Germany wrote:When people get imprisoned in the UK for misgendering people on Twitter, or for training a pug to raise its right arm, this is tyranny.
Lmao. If you're gonna make a ridiculous claim like that, you've gotta back it up. Show us where someone has been arrested for this. As a British (hobbyist) dog trainer, I especially look forward to your source for the second one.
by Istoreya » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:33 am
Novokria wrote:Istoreya wrote:Lmao. If you're gonna make a ridiculous claim like that, you've gotta back it up. Show us where someone has been arrested for this. As a British (hobbyist) dog trainer, I especially look forward to your source for the second one.
UK teacher Joshua Sutcliffe was fired after accidentally misgendering a student and if you have your way Joshua Sutcliffe would be in a Gulag by now
by Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:36 am
Istoreya wrote:Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza wrote:He's referring to the Count Dankula dog Nazi salute thing that happened a while ago (2016).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 17751.html
Not an imprisonment but he was still fined for it.
Hmmm. Maybe it was less to do with the fact the dog was raising its paw and more to do with the fact he was calling for the murder of Jews in the video?
by Saint Arsenio » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:39 am
Novokria wrote:Istoreya wrote:Lmao. If you're gonna make a ridiculous claim like that, you've gotta back it up. Show us where someone has been arrested for this. As a British (hobbyist) dog trainer, I especially look forward to your source for the second one.
UK teacher Joshua Sutcliffe was fired after accidentally misgendering a student and if you have your way Joshua Sutcliffe would be in a Gulag by now
The Influential | News: Protests in Saint Glennwood, surrounding area prompt city-wide state of emergency
by The Alma Mater » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:39 am
by Istoreya » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:39 am
Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza wrote:Istoreya wrote:Hmmm. Maybe it was less to do with the fact the dog was raising its paw and more to do with the fact he was calling for the murder of Jews in the video?
Yeah the prosecution was more to do with the Nazi joke part and isn't just "man arrested because dog raised arm". Though people do find it simpler and more headline bait-able to say "wow man arrested for making his dog raise it's paw literally 8419".
by Novokria » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:40 am
Saint Arsenio wrote:Novokria wrote:UK teacher Joshua Sutcliffe was fired after accidentally misgendering a student and if you have your way Joshua Sutcliffe would be in a Gulag by now
I'm not so sure he did it accidentally. Here's a quote (from him) that I found in an article: "He said said he had no regrets over his comments and "in both cases" had been "punished" for being "vocal about my Christian position".
Also, being fired isn't imprisonment.
by Istoreya » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:41 am
The Alma Mater wrote:Istoreya wrote:Sauce please.
Google confirms. And that he was fired from a second school for saying things about Mohamed.
It is unclear if he misgendered accidentally or on purpose. He says accidentally but also that he does not believe in transgenders and that people should be referred to by their birthsex. The fact that the school only fired him after an extensive investigation does imply it was not an isolated incident - but since they do not share said info with the media we will never know.
by Saint Arsenio » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:46 am
Novokria wrote:Saint Arsenio wrote:I'm not so sure he did it accidentally. Here's a quote (from him) that I found in an article: "He said said he had no regrets over his comments and "in both cases" had been "punished" for being "vocal about my Christian position".
Also, being fired isn't imprisonment.
It starts with people being fired and it ends with people in camps
The Influential | News: Protests in Saint Glennwood, surrounding area prompt city-wide state of emergency
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