Can Homophobia Be Justified?

[Istoreya]

Okay, discussion of what and what isn't facism might be a liiiiiil bit off topic

[Novokria]

Yes sure some are Nazis but most are just against Russian Imperialism

That's why your sig says you're a Banderite, right? The guy who massacred tens of thousands of Ethnic Poles and was allied briefly with Nazi Germany? And why you say you're anti-Poland and anti-Judaism, right? And why you support Svoboda, which is a rebranding of the National Socialist Party of Ukraine, yeah? Do you think I can't do word-association games lmao

Yes i support Stepan Bandera he was fighting for an independent Ukraine and yes some Poles died but thats after the Poles killed many Ukrainians

[Russiyskaya Respublica]

That's why your sig says you're a Banderite, right? The guy who massacred tens of thousands of Ethnic Poles and was allied briefly with Nazi Germany? And why you say you're anti-Poland and anti-Judaism, right? And why you support Svoboda, which is a rebranding of the National Socialist Party of Ukraine, yeah? Do you think I can't do word-association games lmao

Yes i support Stepan Bandera he was fighting for an independent Ukraine and yes some Poles died but thats after the Poles killed many Ukrainians

OH OH OH, my friend, what do you think of the Red Army's actions in Berlin?

[Punished UMN]

Yeah, you do, whether you want to or not, because those people on the ground are the ones who influence their governments to support LGBT rights.

Actually, I don't. People aren't convinced with words, most of the time. They're convinced by seeing and interacting with gay people. Again, looking forward to you tell me how this function.

Those two are not separate, the issue the movement has faced is that it is not just representing the goals of the LGBT community or of LGBT rights but also has a bunch of ideological baggage which undermines the legitimacy of the state. A lot of these countries actually had better gay rights and less homophobic attitudes before Western LGBT rights movements started in their countries, so it's not just explainable by homophobia.

[Ifreann]

What about separation of church and state?

The state can not be independent from the Church if the state wants to exist

It's like you're communicating to us from the 15th century.

[The Marlborough]

Sure it may have a Neo-Nazi background but most are just Ultra-Nationalists

Ultranationalism and fascism are the same thing.

Not really though nowadays most ultranationalist groups are fascist. Eg the Black Hundreds were hilariously ultranationalist but weren't fascist (especially since they existed before the advent of fascism as an ideology).

[Novokria]

Yes i support Stepan Bandera he was fighting for an independent Ukraine and yes some Poles died but thats after the Poles killed many Ukrainians

OH OH OH, my friend, what do you think of the Red Army's actions in Berlin?

Well it was wrong of the Red army to commit war crimes against the German population like when the Russians committed crimes against Ukraine the Holodomor for instance

[The Marlborough]

The state can not be independent from the Church if the state wants to exist

It's like you're communicating to us from the 15th century.

It's not particularly uncommon in areas heavily Orthodox. Political philosophy and outlook is quite different as a result of divergent trends and historical developments. One of the things to heavily influence the separation between state and church in the West was the domination of Saint Augustine of Hippo's writings in Western philosophy and theology whereas in the East his influence isn't nearly as great.

[Russiyskaya Respublica]

OH OH OH, my friend, what do you think of the Red Army's actions in Berlin?

Well it was wrong of the Red army to commit war crimes against the German population like when the Russians committed crimes against Ukraine the Holodomor for instance

But it wasn't wrong for Ukrainians to do the same with Poles?
You're so full of shit.

[Zul-ar]

No they won't.

I'll give it till June before Biden changes the laws in America

What reality are you from?

[Novokria]

Well it was wrong of the Red army to commit war crimes against the German population like when the Russians committed crimes against Ukraine the Holodomor for instance

But it wasn't wrong for Ukrainians to do the same with Poles?
You're so full of shit.

Well it was after the Poles persecuted Ukrainians

[Russiyskaya Respublica]

But it wasn't wrong for Ukrainians to do the same with Poles?
You're so full of shit.

Well it was after the Poles persecuted Ukrainians

The Germans burnt entire cities to the ground in Russia, you have no consistency, moral or logical.
Nationalism is the worst mistake humanity has ever made.

[San Lumen]

But it wasn't wrong for Ukrainians to do the same with Poles?
You're so full of shit.

Well it was after the Poles persecuted Ukrainians

Not relevant to the topic. How about we get back to it with an answer to why you think churches, synagogues and mosques will be forced to marry same sex couples and why it should not be called a marriage?

The President of the US also doesnt have the authority to make law.

[Novokria]

Well it was after the Poles persecuted Ukrainians

The Germans burnt entire cities to the ground in Russia, you have no consistency, moral or logical.

Well thats what the Russian say happened but i don't really know if it did or not

[Russiyskaya Respublica]

The Germans burnt entire cities to the ground in Russia, you have no consistency, moral or logical.

Well thats what the Russian say happened but i don't really know if it did or not

I rest my case, this person is insane through and through.
Don't be surprised when people call you a nazi, because that's what you are.

[Odreria]

Okay, discussion of what and what isn't facism might be a liiiiiil bit off topic

Sorry it’s mandatory that we argue about that at least once every thread

[Caraani]

I mean the Russians actively went from celebrating a lesbian pop duo and using their popularity in Russia to dunk on America for being homophobic to wanting to beat up gay people because a lot of Russian LGBT groups and figures decided to back the wrong people in the early to mid 2000's power struggles in Russian politics. Same thing with the Church. It's one thing to call out the church for not living up to an ideal another to basically call for its destruction.

Also I wouldn't toot that horn too loud about your approach working.

Tolerance of our existence worldwide has increased. I already saw that article, and I saw the article that discredited said article as well. Nice try though.

[Wallenburg]

No. What the fuck. /thread

[Novokria]

Well it was after the Poles persecuted Ukrainians

Not relevant to the topic. How about we get back to it with an answer to why you think churches, synagogues and mosques will be forced to marry same sex couples and why it should not be called a marriage?

The President of the US also doesnt have the authority to make law.

Well the last few years has shown America can change just like that so anything is possible in 2021 America and Biden seems like the sort of person to try and takeover and create a new constitution

[Caraani]

It's like you're communicating to us from the 15th century.

It's not particularly uncommon in areas heavily Orthodox. Political philosophy and outlook is quite different as a result of divergent trends and historical developments. One of the things to heavily influence the separation between state and church in the West was the domination of Saint Augustine of Hippo's writings in Western philosophy and theology whereas in the East his influence isn't nearly as great.

-...If you're from a village in eastern europe. We've also been through communism in Eastern Europe, which saw the complete emancipation of the state from the church, and in some cases its direct subservience. I for one always enjoy the pictures of the patriarch of Romania sucking up to Ceausescu and pre-eminent scientist/illiterate peasant wife.

[San Lumen]

Not relevant to the topic. How about we get back to it with an answer to why you think churches, synagogues and mosques will be forced to marry same sex couples and why it should not be called a marriage?

The President of the US also doesnt have the authority to make law.

Well the last few years has shown America can change just like that so anything is possible in 2021 America and Biden seems like the sort of person to try and takeover and create a new constitution

Rubbish. The president cannot make law.

Why shouldnt same sex marriage be called as such?

[Punished UMN]

I mean the Russians actively went from celebrating a lesbian pop duo and using their popularity in Russia to dunk on America for being homophobic to wanting to beat up gay people because a lot of Russian LGBT groups and figures decided to back the wrong people in the early to mid 2000's power struggles in Russian politics. Same thing with the Church. It's one thing to call out the church for not living up to an ideal another to basically call for its destruction.

Also I wouldn't toot that horn too loud about your approach working.

Tolerance of our existence worldwide has increased. I already saw that article, and I saw the article that discredited said article as well. Nice try though.

But there are large regions of the globe, specifically the Former Soviet Union, the Middle East and North Africa region, and Sub-Saharan Africa in which tolerance has either stagnated or declined.

[Punished UMN]

It's not particularly uncommon in areas heavily Orthodox. Political philosophy and outlook is quite different as a result of divergent trends and historical developments. One of the things to heavily influence the separation between state and church in the West was the domination of Saint Augustine of Hippo's writings in Western philosophy and theology whereas in the East his influence isn't nearly as great.

-...If you're from a village in eastern europe. We've also been through communism in Eastern Europe, which saw the complete emancipation of the state from the church, and in some cases its direct subservience. I for one always enjoy the pictures of the patriarch of Romania sucking up to Ceausescu and pre-eminent scientist/illiterate peasant wife.

Tbf, the Patriarch of Romania under Ceausescu was an ally of the Communist Party long-before they took power.

[Odreria]

No, we're discussing that your political strategy has failed and you're falling back on abstract concepts and moral condemnations because you don't have a back-up plan for actually convincing people on the ground to support LGBT people.

I don't need to convince people on the ground to support LGBT people. Please check what we were actually talking about.

Ok good luck getting more rights without anybody supporting it

[Caraani]

Actually, I don't. People aren't convinced with words, most of the time. They're convinced by seeing and interacting with gay people. Again, looking forward to you tell me how this function.

Those two are not separate, the issue the movement has faced is that it is not just representing the goals of the LGBT community or of LGBT rights but also has a bunch of ideological baggage which undermines the legitimacy of the state. A lot of these countries actually had better gay rights and less homophobic attitudes before Western LGBT rights movements started in their countries, so it's not just explainable by homophobia.

No. The issue that the movement has faced is that, because the west has moved forward with this issue, in states that are actively opposing western states, such as the US, with which I don't disagree, since the US has been terrible, especially in the middle east - then said states find an easy scapegoat in the LGBT community and the movement, especially as some of those states are moving towards a more conciliatory tone towards the spawn of satan Israel, and it's right to exist as a country. In short, blaming the jew/israeli can not be moved to blaming the gay. And since Homosexuality isn't actually an ideology, and the west has only recently decided we're actual human beings, no state will take drastic measures to defend us. So we're an easy target. It's not that LGBT issues have taken some political sides, it's that LGBT issues have been politicised by those states in order to score political points and increase stability and the popularity of the regime by targeting us - which is what Russia did after it's economy took a nose dive following Crimea. Russians didn't magically start being homophobic, but the state helped them in their homophobia when it started targetting us and naming us "western agents", galvanising the masses against us and turning them away from the economic disaster that were the sanctions.