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Who is to blame for World War I

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:11 am

Sundiata wrote:The Germans. It's why they signed the Treaty of Versailles.


Baldrick: The thing is: The way I see it, these days there's a war on, right? and, ages ago, there wasn't a war on, right? So, there must have been a moment when there not being a war on went away, right? and there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is: How did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs?

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Brain Gremlin
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Postby Brain Gremlin » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:35 am

Primarily the German Empire. Though of course there were other contributing causes to the First World War such as French revanchism, Serbian nationalism, Russian modernization, internal Austro-Hungarian troubles. Quite a sordid and messy affair really.

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:34 am

Das Kaiser Reich wrote:Short answer : the Serbians
Long Answer : all of Europe.


And exactly how are Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Spain to blame? they're part of Europe and didn't even participate.

How is Belgium to blame?
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Engadine Mcdonalds 1997
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Postby Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:52 am

To be a tad serious for this discussion (some of the memey answers were genuinely funny), the question is WHO is to blame for WW1, not WHAT is the cause of WW1. Last I checked Militarism, Nationalism and Imperialism aren't nations, they're concepts.

If we were to look at the most direct cause for the war and all of the following events, it would be the assassination of Franz Ferdinand by The Black Hand. This leads to the A-H Empire getting pissy with the Serbian government, sends an ultimatum to Serbia, Serbia refuses, Russia decides to jump in by prematurely mobilising before A-H declares war on Serbia, which gets Germany worried and makes the decision to strike through the Benelux region (minus the ne of Benelux).

If the Serbian government was supporting The Black Hand, then Serbia is to blame, but if TBH acted completely independently, then A-H started.

Of course there is still the dozens/hundreds of years before that would be able to more accurately target when events were set in motion, but that's a little silly really. Like imagine if WW3 erupted over the Cuban Missile Crisis, and people were pinning the cause on Karl Marx writing the Communist Manifesto, again it's a little silly
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Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza
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Postby Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 am

To really understand the causes of WW1, one must look back to the Archean Eon and the evolution of chemotrophic prokaryotic ancestors from the primitive primordial soup. For additional reading I would look into the Great Oxygenation Crisis that ultimately led to the development of oxygen metabolizing life and consequently Eukaryotes.
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Postby Page » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:58 am

While it is unfair to blame Germany for starting the war, Germany does have blame for the war being as bad as it was because they made the decision to invade France through neutral Belgium. Had they not done that, the UK would have not gotten involved. And while Germany chose to go through Belgium to avoid France's fortifications, we can see now that trench warfare was inevitable regardless. Had Germany just attacked France directly, it would have been a stalemate on the western front while Germany and Austria-Hungary would have done well in the East. After a year or two, they would have consolidated their gains in the East and made peace with France on terms that while not very favorable to the French wouldn't have been nearly as harsh as Versailles was to Germany.
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Postby Comerciante » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:02 am

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A z a n i a
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Postby A z a n i a » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:02 am

Page wrote:While it is unfair to blame Germany for starting the war, Germany does have blame for the war being as bad as it was because they made the decision to invade France through neutral Belgium. Had they not done that, the UK would have not gotten involved. And while Germany chose to go through Belgium to avoid France's fortifications, we can see now that trench warfare was inevitable regardless. Had Germany just attacked France directly, it would have been a stalemate on the western front while Germany and Austria-Hungary would have done well in the East. After a year or two, they would have consolidated their gains in the East and made peace with France on terms that while not very favorable to the French wouldn't have been nearly as harsh as Versailles was to Germany.

I saw a Youtube video once explaining almost this exact same scenario.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:31 am

Heloin wrote:To know the causes of the First World War one must look to the fall of Babylon.


Nah; too recent.

To know the causes of the First World War one must look to the emergence of hominids in Africa.


It's certainly a better place to look than an NSG thread where most of the answers to a historically complex problem won't stretch to five sentences.

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:34 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Heloin wrote:To know the causes of the First World War one must look to the fall of Babylon.


Nah; too recent.

To know the causes of the First World War one must look to the emergence of hominids in Africa.


It's certainly a better place to look than an NSG thread where most of the answers to a historically complex problem won't stretch to five sentences.


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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:37 am

Basically all the major countries involved. They all helped contribute to the growing tension in the continent with their arms races, alliances, colonial races etc and were just waiting for the opportunity to kick each others asses.

That war was gona happen some point even if the Arch Duke wasnt assassinated.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:55 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Das Kaiser Reich wrote:Short answer : the Serbians
Long Answer : all of Europe.


And exactly how are Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Spain to blame? they're part of Europe and didn't even participate.

How is Belgium to blame?

They bordered the English channel.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 am

Germany, the kaiser was demanding his place in the Sun. He got it
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Virgolia
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Postby Virgolia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:57 am

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Postby Ifreann » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:58 am

Fall of Babylon joke made already? I dunno then. Aliens?
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Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza
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Postby Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:59 am

Ethel mermania wrote:Germany, the kaiser was demanding his place in the Sun. He got it

How is the weather in the Netherlands anyway? I wonder if Willy II had more rainy days or sunny days while in exile there.
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Postby Wink Wonk We Like Stonks » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 am

Kubra wrote:Me
I'm to blame for ww1

it was actually me, but go off i guess
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Postby My Political Fantasy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:06 am

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:07 am

Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Germany, the kaiser was demanding his place in the Sun. He got it

How is the weather in the Netherlands anyway? I wonder if Willy II had more rainy days or sunny days while in exile there.


Should have stayed in tanzanika
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Postby Jarvikan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:08 am

Sword Island wrote:A REALLY oversimplified primer

World War I, also known as the Great War, occurred between 1914 and 1918. The 'reasons' for the war are relatively trivial for an event of its size. Gavrilo Princip, a Serbian national assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife, prompting Austria to declare war on Serbia. Russia, who were allied with the Serbs and French( this will come to importance later), backed Serbia. Germany backs Austria and Russia mobilizes against Austria. Germany responds by mobilizing against Russia and then France mobilizes against the Germans. And so just like that, a small regional conflict balloons out to engulf all of Europe.

Here's why everyone started to mobilize one after one: The Franco-Prussian and Crimean wars were still fresh in everyone's minds. Miltary thinking at the time was if you could get to the field before everyone else you were basically guaranteed to win, so that's why everyone started to mobilize. That and the secret alliances that forced the hands of a lot of the states involved in World War I.

So who is responsible for WW1 in your opinion

Easily the Germans.They raised tensions hugely with unification,colonisation,and building the navy.Austria Hungary only declared war on Serbia due to German support.
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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:09 am

It’s Austria’s fault a war broke out, it’s all of their faults it became a World War, but Germany and Russia get the most blame after Austria-Hungary.
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Postby Dogmeat » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:10 am

Jarvikan wrote:
Sword Island wrote:A REALLY oversimplified primer

World War I, also known as the Great War, occurred between 1914 and 1918. The 'reasons' for the war are relatively trivial for an event of its size. Gavrilo Princip, a Serbian national assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife, prompting Austria to declare war on Serbia. Russia, who were allied with the Serbs and French( this will come to importance later), backed Serbia. Germany backs Austria and Russia mobilizes against Austria. Germany responds by mobilizing against Russia and then France mobilizes against the Germans. And so just like that, a small regional conflict balloons out to engulf all of Europe.

Here's why everyone started to mobilize one after one: The Franco-Prussian and Crimean wars were still fresh in everyone's minds. Miltary thinking at the time was if you could get to the field before everyone else you were basically guaranteed to win, so that's why everyone started to mobilize. That and the secret alliances that forced the hands of a lot of the states involved in World War I.

So who is responsible for WW1 in your opinion

Easily the Germans.They raised tensions hugely with both unification,colonisation,and building the navy.Austria Hungary only declared war on Serbia due to German support.

Blaming the Germans for doing things that everybody else was allowed to do without blame. Sounds fair.
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Ittonia
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Postby Ittonia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:10 am

Austria-Hungary,the assasination of Franz Ferdinand was completely independent from the goals of the Serbian government ,but because Austria's motto was literally "Austria shall rule the Universe" they just messed up with Serbia,little did they know Serbia was allied to Russia which was allied to the entente.
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Postby Chan Island » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:11 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Das Kaiser Reich wrote:Short answer : the Serbians
Long Answer : all of Europe.


And exactly how are Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Spain to blame? they're part of Europe and didn't even participate.

How is Belgium to blame?


The Netherlands provided refuge for Kaiser Wilhelm after the war so obviously they were in on it to protect him if needs be, Denmark and Sweden were looking for buyers for their small but burgeoning arms industries so clearly had vested interests to secretly urge everyone to fight behind the scenes and Spain put their name to the pandemic immediately after the war that killed more than the entire conflict.

Oh, and Belgium was just in the way. :p
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