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Can Homophobia Be Justified?

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:53 pm

Loeje wrote:
Heloin wrote:It always is. No form of bigotry is ever justified for any reason.

There are people who don't feel that way and still qualify as homophobic. They're the exception, but they exist and if we give them a chance they might change their minds.

They are bigots. It’s not my job to have to justify myself to someone who chooses to hate me for no reason.

Gen I know this is about the person you described as a friend who decried you for “falling to sin”. If you think you can turn that person away from hate then good for you. That doesn’t change the fact that their beliefs are in no way justified and will never be.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:54 pm

It depends on behavior, we cannot force anyone to love someone, for example, I don't have to like homophobic people :roll:
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Jabberwocky
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Postby Jabberwocky » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:55 pm

I think that history has demonstrated that anything can be rationalized, hence justified.
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:56 pm

No it is not justified. No form of discrimination or hatred of a group is ever acceptable and who someone loves through no choice of their own is no different.

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Postby Picairn » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:57 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:I think that history has demonstrated that anything can be rationalized, hence justified.

Like slavery and genocide? :eyebrow:
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:58 pm

Prydania wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:It depends on who is defining it. Obviously those who want to cause LGBTQ+ people harm are not very good people in my view, and should be opposed. With that being said, some people define it more vaguely than that, where neutrality or "meh" is considered "homophobia."

I've never seen this fabled "honest person who thinks LGBT people should be afforded respect but is persecuted by the woke mob for being homophobic because they weren't enthusiastic enough," and I did volunteer work for LGBTory when I lived in Canada. You'd think we would have gotten a lot of hate, but it was...as you would say..."meh."

So this sob story of "I believe gay people are cool but I wasn't enthusiastic enough one Pride Month and now they're saying I'm a homophobe," seems like just that. A sob story.

I wasn't ever actually accused of homophobia, unless you're going to accuse me of it now, so it's not my personal "sob story." Rather it is a negative reaction to Philosophy Tube and the aligned leftists who follow it, and what they promoted as "homophobic." That and me just having an axe to grind with raiders in general, and by extension, anything they fly. Did I go too far with my post? Maybe, but many on NSG have axes to grind.

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Loeje
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Postby Loeje » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:59 pm

Heloin wrote:
Loeje wrote:There are people who don't feel that way and still qualify as homophobic. They're the exception, but they exist and if we give them a chance they might change their minds.

They are bigots. It’s not my job to have to justify myself to someone who chooses to hate me for no reason.

Gen I know this is about the person you described as a friend who decried you for “falling to sin”. If you think you can turn that person away from hate then good for you. That doesn’t change the fact that their beliefs are in no way justified and will never be.

Trying to understand those people would actually be helpful, I think. But I probably shouldn't have said justified. Maybe understandable would be better.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:04 pm

Loeje wrote:
Heloin wrote:They are bigots. It’s not my job to have to justify myself to someone who chooses to hate me for no reason.

Gen I know this is about the person you described as a friend who decried you for “falling to sin”. If you think you can turn that person away from hate then good for you. That doesn’t change the fact that their beliefs are in no way justified and will never be.

Trying to understand those people would actually be helpful, I think. But I probably shouldn't have said justified. Maybe understandable would be better.

I’ve meet plenty of people who’ve wanted me marginalised, pushed aside, or murdered for any number of reasons solely based on their bigotry.
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:06 pm

Heloin wrote:
Loeje wrote:Trying to understand those people would actually be helpful, I think. But I probably shouldn't have said justified. Maybe understandable would be better.

I’ve meet plenty of people who’ve wanted me marginalised, pushed aside, or murdered for any number of reasons solely based on their bigotry.

Just to be clear, I don't want anything of the sort to happen to you. I hope the people who victimized you or tried to get theirs.

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Postby San Lumen » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:06 pm

Heloin wrote:
Loeje wrote:Trying to understand those people would actually be helpful, I think. But I probably shouldn't have said justified. Maybe understandable would be better.

I’ve meet plenty of people who’ve wanted me marginalised, pushed aside, or murdered for any number of reasons solely based on their bigotry.


I've gotten some very nasty comments when I worked on campaigns and in my hometown. Its part of the reason I like the city better. People are more accepting.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:07 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Heloin wrote:I’ve meet plenty of people who’ve wanted me marginalised, pushed aside, or murdered for any number of reasons solely based on their bigotry.

Just to be clear, I don't want anything of the sort to happen to you. I hope the people who victimized you or tried to get theirs.

They currently run my homeland so I don’t think that’s coming anytime soon.
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Loeje
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Postby Loeje » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:10 pm

Heloin wrote:
Loeje wrote:Trying to understand those people would actually be helpful, I think. But I probably shouldn't have said justified. Maybe understandable would be better.

I’ve meet plenty of people who’ve wanted me marginalised, pushed aside, or murdered for any number of reasons solely based on their bigotry.

That's just wrong, and there's no excuse for it. It's never justifiable. And I'm sorry.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:11 pm

Heloin wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Just to be clear, I don't want anything of the sort to happen to you. I hope the people who victimized you or tried to get theirs.

They currently run my homeland so I don’t think that’s coming anytime soon.


Im very sorry to hear that. I hope things get better in your country soon.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:13 pm

Loeje wrote:
Heloin wrote:I’ve meet plenty of people who’ve wanted me marginalised, pushed aside, or murdered for any number of reasons solely based on their bigotry.

That's just wrong, and there's no excuse for it. It's never justifiable. And I'm sorry.

That’s what all homophobia is at the end of the day. Sure theirs flowery language claiming that it’s not about hate, it’s about protecting children or saving people from sin. But at the end of the day it all ends at the same point along with every other form a bigotry.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:14 pm

Heloin wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Just to be clear, I don't want anything of the sort to happen to you. I hope the people who victimized you or tried to get theirs.

They currently run my homeland so I don’t think that’s coming anytime soon.

Well, one can hope.


My country should stop funding the things that happen in Uganda. That certainly isn't justified, and I think they even have state sanctions killing of LGBTQ+ there.

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Loeje
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Postby Loeje » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:18 pm

Heloin wrote:
Loeje wrote:That's just wrong, and there's no excuse for it. It's never justifiable. And I'm sorry.

That’s what all homophobia is at the end of the day. Sure theirs flowery language claiming that it’s not about hate, it’s about protecting children or saving people from sin. But at the end of the day it all ends at the same point along with every other form a bigotry.

You have to judge people by the way they actually treat you. There are a few who are still kind and respectful even though they disagree. You can't ignore that group just because they're the minority.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8
"Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty." Proverbs 22:16

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:21 pm

Loeje wrote:
Heloin wrote:That’s what all homophobia is at the end of the day. Sure theirs flowery language claiming that it’s not about hate, it’s about protecting children or saving people from sin. But at the end of the day it all ends at the same point along with every other form a bigotry.

You have to judge people by the way they actually treat you. There are a few who are still kind and respectful even though they disagree. You can't ignore that group just because they're the minority.

You can’t ever justify bigotry. Would you make a thread asking if racism is justified? If apartheid was justified? If forcing Jews to wear yellow stars was justified? There are people who believe that they are justified and those people are bigots.
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Postby Drongonia » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:24 pm

Yep. Anyway, I do have to ask, where are these spicy threads coming from?
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Loeje
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Postby Loeje » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:24 pm

Heloin wrote:
Loeje wrote:You have to judge people by the way they actually treat you. There are a few who are still kind and respectful even though they disagree. You can't ignore that group just because they're the minority.

You can’t ever justify bigotry. Would you make a thread asking if racism is justified? If apartheid was justified? If forcing Jews to wear yellow stars was justified? There are people who believe that they are justified and those people are bigots.

There's no way to justify anything that harms people, and all of those examples are harmful.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8
"Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty." Proverbs 22:16

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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:25 pm

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Postby Sensorland » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:26 pm

Homophobia is inherently irrational and bigoted. It cannot be reasonably justified.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:29 pm

Loeje wrote:
Heloin wrote:You can’t ever justify bigotry. Would you make a thread asking if racism is justified? If apartheid was justified? If forcing Jews to wear yellow stars was justified? There are people who believe that they are justified and those people are bigots.

There's no way to justify anything that harms people, and all of those examples are harmful.

All homophobia is harmful. The line drawn between people being victimised for their sexuality and/or gender and people being victimised by their race and ethnicity is a double standard plain and simple.
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Free Las Pinas
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Postby Free Las Pinas » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:31 pm

Homophobia is a form of bigotry, and I don’t believe any form of bigotry can actually be justified.
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Loeje
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Postby Loeje » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:33 pm

Heloin wrote:
Loeje wrote:There's no way to justify anything that harms people, and all of those examples are harmful.

All homophobia is harmful. The line drawn between people being victimised for their sexuality and/or gender and people being victimised by their race and ethnicity is a double standard plain and simple.

I just know that I don't always feel like it's harmful to me. It could be different for other people, and in that case it is wrong in that situation.
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins." 1 Peter 4:8
"Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty." Proverbs 22:16

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:39 pm

Loeje wrote:
Heloin wrote:All homophobia is harmful. The line drawn between people being victimised for their sexuality and/or gender and people being victimised by their race and ethnicity is a double standard plain and simple.

I just know that I don't always feel like it's harmful to me. It could be different for other people, and in that case it is wrong in that situation.

No, it never really is. It’s hatred towards someone for being who they are. It’s deeply harmful. That you’re excusing a bigot because they’re sometimes act nice doesn’t change that.
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