NATION

PASSWORD

[q] Is it time to revisit the nation name release criteria?

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.
User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10998
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

[q] Is it time to revisit the nation name release criteria?

Postby CoraSpia » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:27 am

Hi,

I made my opinions regarding the new nation release criteria known when it was first up for discussion, but now we're getting to the point at which it's almost as hard to find a new nation name as it was back before the release, I think it might be time to revisit it.
In short, I'm not sure what the point is of the 500m population limit, when it's combined with the 5 year minimum elapsed time. If one of my friends who plays ns had gone for 5 years, I wouldn't be very hopeful of the chance of them returning...indeed I have only seen 4 or 5 times in which a nation has been revived after so long, aside from rarely-used puppets. It might be worth raising the limit, perhaps to 1 or even 2 billion: alternatively a sliding scale of population limits based on the time the nation last ceased to exist might be possible however I'm not sure how the code would work.
Last edited by CoraSpia on Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

User avatar
Durm
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Jun 16, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Durm » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:00 am

AFAIK there already is a thread for this.

Also nothing above 1 billion should be reused. Ever.

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10998
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:11 am

Durm wrote:AFAIK there already is a thread for this.

Also nothing above 1 billion should be reused. Ever.

Why is that? If the nation CTE'd 12 years ago, they're not coming back.
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

User avatar
Gandoor
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9615
Founded: Sep 23, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Gandoor » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:28 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Durm wrote:AFAIK there already is a thread for this.

Also nothing above 1 billion should be reused. Ever.

Why is that? If the nation CTE'd 12 years ago, they're not coming back.

You don't know that and you ought to stop acting like you do. Not NS, but I've literally been on communities where users come back after 10+ years of inactivity. It does happen.
OOC - Call me Viola
IC Flag|Gandoor Wiki|Q&A|National Currency Database
Reminder that true left-wing politics are incompatible with authoritarianism, totalitarianism, and dictatorship in all forms.
Flag is currently Shindoine from Healin' Good Precure
I'm female.
OOC Info
Twitter: @Sailor_Viola
Steam: Princess Viola
TGs are welcome

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10998
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:31 am

Gandoor wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:Why is that? If the nation CTE'd 12 years ago, they're not coming back.

You don't know that and you ought to stop acting like you do. Not NS, but I've literally been on communities where users come back after 10+ years of inactivity. It does happen.

And we should keep tens of thousands of names unavailable for the tiny group of people who might possibly come back?
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33631
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:34 am

CoraSpia wrote:
Gandoor wrote:You don't know that and you ought to stop acting like you do. Not NS, but I've literally been on communities where users come back after 10+ years of inactivity. It does happen.

And we should keep tens of thousands of names unavailable for the tiny group of people who might possibly come back?

Yes. There are still plenty of possibilities for names.
Last edited by The New California Republic on Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Gandoor
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9615
Founded: Sep 23, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Gandoor » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:03 am

The New California Republic wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:And we should keep tens of thousands of names unavailable for the tiny group of people who might possibly come back?

Yes. There are still plenty of possibilities for names.

There's also no guarantee that a released name will actually end up used and not just hoarded.

Just look at real world nation names, those are pretty popular but what's the real difference between the NS nation of France (just the first one I searched in the boneyard) that hasn't existed since October 2007 (so over 13 years) and if they made that name available again and someone just grabs it and does literally nothing with the nation other than logging in to maintain it? In either case, a player who might genuinely want that nation name (because they wanna RP as some version of France) can't use the name.
OOC - Call me Viola
IC Flag|Gandoor Wiki|Q&A|National Currency Database
Reminder that true left-wing politics are incompatible with authoritarianism, totalitarianism, and dictatorship in all forms.
Flag is currently Shindoine from Healin' Good Precure
I'm female.
OOC Info
Twitter: @Sailor_Viola
Steam: Princess Viola
TGs are welcome

User avatar
Flanderlion
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1738
Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Flanderlion » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:47 pm

Flanderlion wrote:
Wymondham wrote:I think this would be an excellent improvement, 500 million population is chicken feed these days

That would just be pushing the problem down the road. As a wise person once said:

Flanderlion wrote:I don't think this should be a priority. At some distant point the reuse policy should be updated:

Instead of 5 years under X population, it should be 5 + number of billion population years. So if I have a 1 billion pop nation that CTEs, someone can refound it 6 years later, but if I had a 20 billion pop nation it should be 25 years later. Essentially it's approximately 5 years + double the time the nation has been alive.

As I said in the thread, eventually should change but no rush.
As always, I'm representing myself.
Information

User avatar
Comfed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 858
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:13 pm

Honestly I don’t think that this is a huge problem - coming up with names isn’t hard.
Mall:
Best part about being a mod was engaging in normal player behavior and getting accused of abuse
"You think this is abuse? I'll SHOW you abuse."
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:In the liberal justice system, raiding-based offenses are considered especially heinous. In The South Pacific, the dedicated defenders who investigate these vicious felonies are members of an elite squad known as the Council on Regional Security. These are their proscriptions. DUN DUN.

Numero Capitan wrote:I haven't bothered reading back but I can unequivocally say that I agree with everything HEM has said and Unibot is wrong

Put this in your sig if you passed biology and know that gender and sex are not the same thing.

User avatar
Miravana
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 104
Founded: Dec 01, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Miravana » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:59 pm

I do not think there is much need in lowering the 5-year criteria, though It may be worthwhile to consider the length of time necessary to claim names of nations 500 million - 1 billion. These are players who have spent less than a year on the site, and in such there becomes a time when it is just as unlikely as a sub-500million returning after 5 years. My personal belief is after 10 years, nations between 500million and 1 billion population should be made available.
Lieutenant of The Black Hawks
Deputy Overseer of Blade Corps

The Sapa of The Incan Empire

"You are really proving our standards are lower than my height" ~Dakota
"Mira I know you're an ebil raider but this is too far" ~Fihami

User avatar
Pluvie
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 148
Founded: Apr 14, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Pluvie » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:39 pm

Okay, and this might be a bit of a sidetrack, but I've had an idea in my mind that could solve at least some of these problems imo. Not perhaps old antiquity nations, but at least new nations.

This is to say, I think there should be an option to delete one's nation. Would this be a full fix? No. But if it were possible (keep in mind I'm definitely no code expert), then if a user deleted their nation below 500 million population, it would automatically go back into the naming pool, and I would think if a nation was bigger than that, that person could choose whether they wanted to add their nation name back to the pool.

This would not solve the problem of nations that are 18 years old laying abandoned forever, but it could at least help to solve the problem in the future, especially because it would also solve a couple of other issues I've always had with the way NS runs. Take me for instance, atm I have a puppet region with somewhere around 450 puppets. Many of those puppets have reached the point where their names would forever be held, which is a problem because at this point I'm honestly starting to let all those puppets die and I feel rather bad letting them die and stealing their names forever. I would much prefer to just be able to delete them all and allow others to use those names in the future. In addition, this would also mean that one wouldn't be bombarded with "about to CTE!" emails every time a set of puppets dies because they would just be able to delete them.

I also thought about how this might mean that if somebody hacked your nation, they would be able to instantly delete it, but I also don't see how that couldn't be solved the same way current hacks could be so I figured that shouldn't be an issue afaik. I also have no idea how that would or wouldn't work with the nation id system or with cards or with really most of the actual code on NS, so if this is an impossible idea, I apologize for taking ya'll's time.

I know this wouldn't be a perfect fix, but what do ya'll think?
Main of Aramantha, resident Enby, Fox, Dragon, Catgirl, Time Traveller, Spectre of Hearts, Kangaroo(???), possibly or possibly not a madcap magician, apparently Dolphin?, and friend to (almost) all! You better be having a good day or I'll have to come give you a good day myself :<

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10998
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:47 am

Flanderlion wrote:
Flanderlion wrote:That would just be pushing the problem down the road. As a wise person once said:


As I said in the thread, eventually should change but no rush.

That's a good suggestion. I'm not sure how the coding would work on that though.
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10998
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:48 am

Pluvie wrote:Okay, and this might be a bit of a sidetrack, but I've had an idea in my mind that could solve at least some of these problems imo. Not perhaps old antiquity nations, but at least new nations.

This is to say, I think there should be an option to delete one's nation. Would this be a full fix? No. But if it were possible (keep in mind I'm definitely no code expert), then if a user deleted their nation below 500 million population, it would automatically go back into the naming pool, and I would think if a nation was bigger than that, that person could choose whether they wanted to add their nation name back to the pool.

This would not solve the problem of nations that are 18 years old laying abandoned forever, but it could at least help to solve the problem in the future, especially because it would also solve a couple of other issues I've always had with the way NS runs. Take me for instance, atm I have a puppet region with somewhere around 450 puppets. Many of those puppets have reached the point where their names would forever be held, which is a problem because at this point I'm honestly starting to let all those puppets die and I feel rather bad letting them die and stealing their names forever. I would much prefer to just be able to delete them all and allow others to use those names in the future. In addition, this would also mean that one wouldn't be bombarded with "about to CTE!" emails every time a set of puppets dies because they would just be able to delete them.

I also thought about how this might mean that if somebody hacked your nation, they would be able to instantly delete it, but I also don't see how that couldn't be solved the same way current hacks could be so I figured that shouldn't be an issue afaik. I also have no idea how that would or wouldn't work with the nation id system or with cards or with really most of the actual code on NS, so if this is an impossible idea, I apologize for taking ya'll's time.

I know this wouldn't be a perfect fix, but what do ya'll think?

Max has said previously that this is never going to happen.
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

User avatar
Parxland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 385
Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Parxland » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:36 am

The New California Republic wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:And we should keep tens of thousands of names unavailable for the tiny group of people who might possibly come back?

Yes. There are still plenty of possibilities for names.


Yes let's give new players even less reasons to play this game! It'll be great for our longevity! :roll:
NS' resident salty gamer. My WA nation is Parx
Saying 'Goodbye' to 2020 be like..| Hello creepy NSGP stalker!

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33631
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:39 am

Parxland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Yes. There are still plenty of possibilities for names.


Yes let's give new players even less reasons to play this game! It'll be great for our longevity! :roll:

If someone new gets so annoyed by the fact that they can't get the exact name they want and it makes them leave then that's entirely on them. And the site seems to have done just fine so far in terms of longevity by not letting people have whatever name they want.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Minimark
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 161
Founded: Jan 15, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Minimark » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:42 am

I feel like 1 billion should be the line, but there should also be an option on the settings page to allow reuse if the user wants it, after like 5 years

User avatar
Gandoor
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9615
Founded: Sep 23, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Gandoor » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:08 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Parxland wrote:
Yes let's give new players even less reasons to play this game! It'll be great for our longevity! :roll:

If someone new gets so annoyed by the fact that they can't get the exact name they want and it makes them leave then that's entirely on them. And the site seems to have done just fine so far in terms of longevity by not letting people have whatever name they want.

I mean shit the game was also had no problems with gaining players before the name reuse feature was even put into place.
OOC - Call me Viola
IC Flag|Gandoor Wiki|Q&A|National Currency Database
Reminder that true left-wing politics are incompatible with authoritarianism, totalitarianism, and dictatorship in all forms.
Flag is currently Shindoine from Healin' Good Precure
I'm female.
OOC Info
Twitter: @Sailor_Viola
Steam: Princess Viola
TGs are welcome

User avatar
Outer Sparta
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11442
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:37 am

I've had many puppet nations reach 500 million with little effort of logging onto them. I feel like somewhere in the couple billions would work better.
social democracy, environmental protection, universal healthcare, free college, social equality, LGBT, pro-choice,
GOP, corporate socialism, Trump, neoconservatism, white supremacy, extreme political views, corruption

User avatar
Parxland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 385
Founded: Apr 21, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Parxland » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:02 am

Gandoor wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:If someone new gets so annoyed by the fact that they can't get the exact name they want and it makes them leave then that's entirely on them. And the site seems to have done just fine so far in terms of longevity by not letting people have whatever name they want.

I mean shit the game was also had no problems with gaining players before the name reuse feature was even put into place.


Something about these responses seems counterintuitive.
NS' resident salty gamer. My WA nation is Parx
Saying 'Goodbye' to 2020 be like..| Hello creepy NSGP stalker!

User avatar
Disgraces
Diplomat
 
Posts: 828
Founded: Apr 07, 2020
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:08 am

Am I the only one who thinks 5 years is a shitton of time for a name release?
Last edited by Disgraces on Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10998
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:01 pm

Disgraces wrote:Am I the only one who thinks 5 years is a shitton of time for a name release?

I think 5 years is okay, but only if combined with a decent population limit. If somebody played for a year between 05 and 06, they will be over 500m but they're still not very likely to be coming back are they?
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

User avatar
The Universal Hegemony
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Feb 15, 2021
Anarchy

Postby The Universal Hegemony » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:06 pm

I agree somewhat. You have to get REALLY creative if you want a short and snappy nation-name that is based off of somewhere in the real world. Look at the nation "France" for example. Not touched in thirteen and a half years. "Europa", not touched in sixteen years. The release policy was fine when it was introduced but so much time has elapsed that are nation names that have been used on three (maybe even four?) separate occasions now! I've been here now since 2014 or 2015 I think. So long ago that nations who had CTEd on the day the release policy was introduced still weren't available for reuse.
Last edited by The Universal Hegemony on Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
✪✪✪ The Universal Hegemony of the Atlantic ✪✪✪
History is Ending, She Endures
A federal union of nation-states across the globe committed to liberal democracy, free enterprise, and human rights, in the year 1976 AD

✪✪✪
Supranational Federal Union of liberal democracies in a dystopian world where liberalism lost WW2. Inspired by OFN/USA from the HOI4 mod The New Order.
✪✪✪
Factbook
✪✪✪
OOC Explanation of the UHA
✪✪✪
OOC Overview of the individual behind UHA


Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Technical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: New Rocland, The Nemesthene League

Advertisement

Remove ads