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Wahhabism Thread

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Treciene
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Wahhabism Thread

Postby Treciene » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:45 am

If you are wondering, Wahhabism is a religious movement using right wing practices. It was created by Mohammed Ibn al-Wahhab in the 18th century, and it is used in Saudi Arabia.

What is your opinion on it?
I think it is bad, since it is promotes terrible things, like homophobia, and is used in terroism and jihad. It’s overall all from the Quran, which doens’t allow certain freedoms.

(I’m not an islamophobe, and I didn’t research a lot on this, don’t kill me plz)
Last edited by Treciene on Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:29 am

Wahhabism is just another authoritarian ideology that the world would be better without. It's held Saudi Arabia back in the 800s, at least socially speaking.
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Postby Outer Bratorke » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:01 am

Wahhabism, to my understanding, is a view in Islam that all "innovations" to Islam are heresy, and they are the true believers. Which is kind of ironic, given the fact Saudi Arabia ( where Wahhabism is the state ideology) has been destroying thousand year buildings directly associated with the prophet to build skyscrapers and malls.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:03 am

Treciene wrote:If you are wondering, Wahhabism is a religious movement using right wing practices. It was created by Mohammed Ibn al-Wahhab in the 18th century, and it is used in Saudi Arabia.

What is your opinion on it?
I think it is bad, since it is promotes terrible things, like homophobia, and is used in terroism and jihad. It’s overall all from the Quran, which doens’t allow certain freedoms.

(I’m not an islamophobe, and I didn’t research a lot on this, don’t kill me plz)

As a Muslim: I find it to be a backwards, disgusting ideology.

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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:18 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Treciene wrote:If you are wondering, Wahhabism is a religious movement using right wing practices. It was created by Mohammed Ibn al-Wahhab in the 18th century, and it is used in Saudi Arabia.

What is your opinion on it?
I think it is bad, since it is promotes terrible things, like homophobia, and is used in terroism and jihad. It’s overall all from the Quran, which doens’t allow certain freedoms.

(I’m not an islamophobe, and I didn’t research a lot on this, don’t kill me plz)

As a Muslim: I find it to be a backwards, disgusting ideology.

Thankfully, most Muslims here in the U.S. and Canada agree with you. I blame the Saudi government for most of the problems associated with the spread of Wahhabism.

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Goatmoon
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Postby Goatmoon » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:22 am

I believe they're the closest to following the "true" form of Islam, same as how Christianity was followed in its early conception up until the middle ages.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:43 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:As a Muslim: I find it to be a backwards, disgusting ideology.

Thankfully, most Muslims here in the U.S. and Canada agree with you. I blame the Saudi government for most of the problems associated with the spread of Wahhabism.

And then by extension you'd have to blame the U.S for supporting Saudi Arabia :/

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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:51 am

Goatmoon wrote:I believe they're the closest to following the "true" form of Islam, same as how Christianity was followed in its early conception up until the middle ages.

The "true" form of Islam as practiced in the 7th century didn't prohibit women from riding horses or operating any other form of transportation. Furthermore, during Muhammad pbuh's life, no Muslim women other than his wives wore a veil, as per the Quran itself it was not a compulsory practice. The "true" form of Islam did not forbid non-Muslims from living in a Muslim state/caliphate. All of these things are innovations in themselves.

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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:56 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Thankfully, most Muslims here in the U.S. and Canada agree with you. I blame the Saudi government for most of the problems associated with the spread of Wahhabism.

And then by extension you'd have to blame the U.S for supporting Saudi Arabia :/

Yes, I do. We love them because of oil unfortunately.

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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:00 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:And then by extension you'd have to blame the U.S for supporting Saudi Arabia :/

Yes, I do. We love them because of oil unfortunately.

Oh boy, when oil dies...

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Postby Insaanistan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:10 am

How many Islamic Principles do you plan on not actually following?

Wahhabis and Governments in the Muslim World:
Image
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:13 am

Insaanistan wrote:How many Islamic Principles do you plan on not actually following?

Wahhabis and Governments in the Muslim World:
(Image)

It's all about that control...

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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:21 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:How many Islamic Principles do you plan on not actually following?

Wahhabis and Governments in the Muslim World:
(Image)

It's all about that control...

Oh, yeah. 100%
“Muhammad (pbuh) let women ride horses and camels? Let’s ban them from driving.
Muhammad (pbuh) explicitly refused to kill genderqueer Muslims and at most told them to just leave in peace? Let’s kill them all!
Muhammad (pbuh) said not to kill civilians in war? Let’s do just that and cause the world’s worst humanitarian crisis.”
Ridiculous.
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Postby Thermodolia » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:26 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Thankfully, most Muslims here in the U.S. and Canada agree with you. I blame the Saudi government for most of the problems associated with the spread of Wahhabism.

And then by extension you'd have to blame the U.S for supporting Saudi Arabia :/

It’s unfortunately one of the dumber things the US has done
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Postby Goatmoon » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:30 am

Insaanistan wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:It's all about that control...

Oh, yeah. 100%
“Muhammad (pbuh) let women ride horses and camels? Let’s ban them from driving.
Muhammad (pbuh) explicitly refused to kill genderqueer Muslims and at most told them to just leave in peace? Let’s kill them all!
Muhammad (pbuh) said not to kill civilians in war? Let’s do just that and cause the world’s worst humanitarian crisis.”
Ridiculous.

From the Hadith: "When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to."


Yeah, sounds exactly like he just told them to "leave in peace".

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Postby Treciene » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:32 am

Can wahhab into fascism?
Insaanistan wrote:How many Islamic Principles do you plan on not actually following?

Wahhabis and Governments in the Muslim World:
(Image)

This made me laugh so hard
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The Land Live in is Great and Glorious, The Land I do call home.
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Postby Insaanistan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:38 am

Goatmoon wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:Oh, yeah. 100%
“Muhammad (pbuh) let women ride horses and camels? Let’s ban them from driving.
Muhammad (pbuh) explicitly refused to kill genderqueer Muslims and at most told them to just leave in peace? Let’s kill them all!
Muhammad (pbuh) said not to kill civilians in war? Let’s do just that and cause the world’s worst humanitarian crisis.”
Ridiculous.

From the Hadith: "When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to."


Yeah, sounds exactly like he just told them to "leave in peace".


Could you name the Hadith collector and what he is rated?
There are six Hadith main Hadith both from six main collectors rated “sunnan” reliable. All of them have some Hadiths that are unreliable. All of them have some hadiths that contradict each other, contradict the Qur’ân, or contradict reason, because Hadiths are not Qur’ân verses, and were not collected and preserved the way the Qur’ân was. Of those six, one, Ibn Majah, has long been criticized by Sunni scholars for having unreliable hadiths (many of which advocate for punishing gay people), and was accepted as sunnan solely for “for utility rather than reliability”. Shiā Muslims generally believe different Hadiths than Sunni Muslims, and Qur’âni Muslims don’t believe ANY hadiths are reliable.
Hadith is not Qur’ân, and determining how reliable they are is difficult.
Last edited by Insaanistan on Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:39 am

Insaanistan wrote:How many Islamic Principles do you plan on not actually following?

Wahhabis and Governments in the Muslim World:
(Image)


Now why would you bring the Count down to this level? The Count at least has taught countless children their first numbers.
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Postby The Universal Hegemony » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:41 am

In the west there is a fundamental misunderstanding of Wahhabism and religious dynamics in Saudi Arabia in general. Wahhabism could be considered to be the basis of Saudi society perhaps but that ignores the influence of Salafist schools like the Madkhalis and Sahwa movement.
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Postby Insaanistan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:43 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:How many Islamic Principles do you plan on not actually following?

Wahhabis and Governments in the Muslim World:
(Image)


Now why would you bring the Count down to this level? The Count at least has taught countless children their first numbers.

I’m sorry, lol.
If you think about it, Wahhabis are vampires, except instead of sucking people’s blood, they spill blood, and they suck away people’s common sense instead.
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Postby The Universal Hegemony » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:44 am

Goatmoon wrote:I believe they're the closest to following the "true" form of Islam, same as how Christianity was followed in its early conception up until the middle ages.

Well this depends what we mean by Wahhabism. If we think of the religious values of Saudi Arabia then we're really meaning a mish-mash of conservative Islam, different Salafist schools and Wahhabism. If we mean Wahhabism as in what was taught by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab then we are looking at a fundamentalist variant of Islam that rejects modern influences. I think it is more accurate to call Salafism orthodox Islam than Wahhabism.
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Postby Insaanistan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:50 am

I intended to do an e-khutbah in IDT about what I’m about to say, but anyway:

The problem with trying to implement shariā is you’ll always be wrong. Human beings will always be implementing and interpreting some parts of it wrong. It has never been uniform and never will be. Practice and principle also come together in confusing ways. For example, under the Ottoman interpretation, adulterers must be punished. However, the thing about that is that even with those interpretations, one really doesn’t want to punish someone who shouldn’t be punished for something. For example, prostitution wasn’t punished as adultery. Why? The Ottoman jurists understood that Islamically it was better to not punish someone guilty with corporal punishment than to punish someone not guilty with corporal punishment. They thought “though prostitution takes place out of legal marriage, does it technically count because it was consensual and the man paying for the prosecution is like a man paying a dowry to his wife?”
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Postby Punished UMN » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:08 am

Goatmoon wrote:I believe they're the closest to following the "true" form of Islam, same as how Christianity was followed in its early conception up until the middle ages.

Wahabism is from the 1700's.
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:13 am

Wahhabism can do one.
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Insaanistan
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Postby Insaanistan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:47 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:Wahhabism can do one.

...what?
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