Reviving Physiocracy

[Shin-Mutsu]

Physiocracy as a formal theory saw its origins in the 18th century, and then meant those the belief "that agriculture was the source of all wealth and that agricultural products should be highly priced" (Oxford Dictionary). Sadly, the theory soon became discredited in the wake of industrialisation of Europe and North America, and today has become an obscure ideology. Yet, following the failure of our modern economy even before the Covid-19 pandemic, is it time to consider physiocracy again? The political scientist Park Hyeja once wrote about combining physiocratic principles with other ideas such as socialism, national self-sufficiency, centralisation, and welfare state. She claimed physiocracy can also lead to self-strengthening and improvement of self-defense capabilities. I find some of those claims interesting, even if I don't agree with them completely.

NSG, do you believe in placing more emphasis on physiocracy?

[Neanderthaland]

Weirdly this is an idea that only ever got much traction in countries where farmers maintained a meaningful political lobby.

[Shin-Mutsu]

Weirdly this is an idea that only ever got much traction in countries where farmers maintained a meaningful political lobby.

"Rather than seeing the implementation of physiocratic measures from the ancient past as a step backwards, it is necessary to understand the context in which such policies shall be realised"

[Neanderthaland]

I mean, it mostly sounds like an argument for autarky. At least as far as food production is concerned.

And hey, nothing bad has ever come from that, right?

[Nevertopia]

Physiocracy as a formal theory saw its origins in the 18th century, and then meant those the belief "that agriculture was the source of all wealth and that agricultural products should be highly priced" (Oxford Dictionary). Sadly, the theory soon became discredited in the wake of industrialisation of Europe and North America, and today has become an obscure ideology. Yet, following the failure of our modern economy even before the Covid-19 pandemic, is it time to consider physiocracy again? The political scientist Park Hyeja once wrote about combining physiocratic principles with other ideas such as socialism, national self-sufficiency, centralisation, and welfare state. She claimed physiocracy can also lead to self-strengthening and improvement of self-defense capabilities. I find some of those claims interesting, even if I don't agree with them completely.

NSG, do you believe in placing more emphasis on physiocracy?

your new age feudalism collapses at the first signs of wanting higher living wages.

[Alcala-Cordel]

The Zapatistas do this to a degree, and I think the greater population should definitely place more value on agriculture as well. In the status quo the majority of agriculture is unsustainable and managed by the bourgeoisie like most industries as well, and that system can only last so long before the environmental damages of taking food for granted will catch up with humanity.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don’t know if it’s practical but there’s an appeal.

The happy music playing in the sunny fields of hay and corn, the joyous farmers, the berries, the renewed connection with nature and animals

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

NSG, do you believe in placing more emphasis on physiocracy?

No.

The idea is obsolete and has been since the Industrial Revolution. Given the economic and technological situation at the time I can easily see why intellectuals of the 1700s would find an idea like this appealing, but we no longer live in a society where wealth lies on a foundation of landholding and agriculture.

[The Union of British North America]

I do like the idea of taxing land value, it is more economically efficient than other taxes, and part of the physiocratic creed. I would favor Georgism over a return of Physiocracy, though I do recognize it as a forerunner to Georgism. More addressing economic privilege and making markets more freer and competitive, and addressing negative externalities on the environment with LVT and Pigouvian taxation.

[East Gondwana]

Physiocracy as a formal theory saw its origins in the 18th century, and then meant those the belief "that agriculture was the source of all wealth and that agricultural products should be highly priced" (Oxford Dictionary). Sadly, the theory soon became discredited in the wake of industrialisation of Europe and North America, and today has become an obscure ideology. Yet, following the failure of our modern economy even before the Covid-19 pandemic, is it time to consider physiocracy again? The political scientist Park Hyeja once wrote about combining physiocratic principles with other ideas such as socialism, national self-sufficiency, centralisation, and welfare state. She claimed physiocracy can also lead to self-strengthening and improvement of self-defense capabilities. I find some of those claims interesting, even if I don't agree with them completely.

NSG, do you believe in placing more emphasis on physiocracy?

Sounds a bit like a form of agrarianism?

[Ethel mermania]

Human history can be seen as an effort to reduce food costs and increase its production and availability. Yeah let's turn the clock back on that.

[The New California Republic]

Physiocracy as a formal theory saw its origins in the 18th century, and then meant those the belief "that agriculture was the source of all wealth and that agricultural products should be highly priced" (Oxford Dictionary).

It's categorically wrong though, as agriculture is not the source of all wealth, so why should one support a theory that is wrong right off the bat?

[Adamede]

How the fuck would this survive a nation wide year plus lockdown better than an industrial society?

Hell how could it provide the living standards of an industrial society?

Frankly just sounds like putting a planter aristocracy in charge like in the old Confederacy.

[Chan Island]

Is this the part where I talk about how mechanised modern farms are again? About how few people actually work in agriculture yet there are record production yields? And do I really have to explain then why ideologies that laser focus on a sector like that are not only obsolete but also incredibly foolish?

[Adamede]

I don’t know if it’s practical but there’s an appeal.

The happy music playing in the sunny fields of hay and corn, the joyous farmers, the berries, the renewed connection with nature and animals

Ain’t nothing natural about farming dude. Farmland is as natural as a city.

[The New California Republic]

The happy music playing in the sunny fields of hay and corn, the joyous farmers, the berries, the renewed connection with nature and animals

...when was the last time you were on a farm? This sounds like something from a Disney movie rather than real life.

[Adamede]

The happy music playing in the sunny fields of hay and corn, the joyous farmers, the berries, the renewed connection with nature and animals

...when was the last time you were on a farm? This sounds like something from a Disney movie rather than real life.

Tbf that’s what a lot of their views sound like.

[Shin-Mutsu]

How the fuck would this survive a nation wide year plus lockdown better than an industrial society?

Hell how could it provide the living standards of an industrial society?

Frankly just sounds like putting a planter aristocracy in charge like in the old Confederacy.

A focus on agriculture leads to self-sufficiency. Park Hyeja argued as much in New Era Physiocractic Socialism.

[Adamede]

How the fuck would this survive a nation wide year plus lockdown better than an industrial society?

Hell how could it provide the living standards of an industrial society?

Frankly just sounds like putting a planter aristocracy in charge like in the old Confederacy.

A focus on agriculture leads to self-sufficiency. Park Hyeja argued as much in New Era Physiocractic Socialism.

1: Modern agriculture is not self sufficient
2: self sufficient/subsistence farming is incapable of supporting the current population.
3: It wouldn’t change shit about the Pandemic and it’s effects on society.

[The New California Republic]

Park Hyeja argued as much in New Era Physiocractic Socialism.

Cannot find any reference to that person online, and nor can I find that book/article/pamphlet or whatever it is.

[Cetacea]

Physiocracy as a formal theory saw its origins in the 18th century, and then meant those the belief "that agriculture was the source of all wealth and that agricultural products should be highly priced" (Oxford Dictionary).

It's categorically wrong though, as agriculture is not the source of all wealth, so why should one support a theory that is wrong right off the bat?

Physiocracy isnt so simple as agriculture is the source of wealth and the more important part of the theory is that only Land-based Agricultural production actually generates SURPLUS WEALTH (you grow more than you sow). Later Artisanal manufacturing and mercantile activity is in fact CONSUMPTION of the Agricultural Surplus and any profit earned at later industries should be seen as analogous to RENT.

The Theory is hugely flawed and needs much work, however it is a ‘better’ theory than Mercantilism/Capitalism in as much as it is based on the Inherent Real Value of Productive Land and Surplus Produce rather than the fiat value of Goods at point of sale.

The theory was inspired by Roman and Confucian models which put Land Owning Agrarian workers at the top of the Social Hierarchy and merchant class at the bottom but I’m not going to pretend to know how a system based on Real Value of Land would work in a modern globalised society.

Nonetheless I do suspect that it would be better in terms of environmental outcomes simply by transferring value to production of agriculutral surplus rather than industrialisation and mercantilism. And really any system that reduces the inordinate influence of Bankers has to be given some credit:)
Unfortunately the Physiocrats were also great defenders of Private Land ownership and Natural Order of Society which was a bit too utopian and didnt really account for how Limited Land ownership would be managed in the face of continual population growth

[East Gondwana]

How the fuck would this survive a nation wide year plus lockdown better than an industrial society?

Hell how could it provide the living standards of an industrial society?

Frankly just sounds like putting a planter aristocracy in charge like in the old Confederacy.

A focus on agriculture leads to self-sufficiency. Park Hyeja argued as much in New Era Physiocractic Socialism.

Only if the agricultural methods and policy are designed around the needs of the polity and its population (now and in the future).

You don't need to have a political focus on agriculture to achieve autarky, and if your polity has insufficient land, or lack of access to necessary technology/infrastructure, resources like water, then you either have to either give up on agricultural self sufficiency or drastically reduce your population (and we all know how lovely and wonderful depopulation policies have been throughout history /s).

Also, what exactly do physiocractic thinkers envisage for politics and society after agricultural self sufficiency is achieved? What is the political framework for technological and social development? How would a physiocratic society organise its political system?

[Kubra]

Adam Smith to Karl Marx and everyone inbetween, all unite in dunking on the physiocrats.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

This thread needs a Pol Pot.

[My Political Fantasy]

Farming sucks and people who idolize it haven't worked on one (but it sucks even more if you don't have modern machinery).