by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:40 pm
by Major-Tom » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:45 pm
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:46 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Fringe theories stemming in America are considered fringe elsewhere, not really newsworthy. I still anticipate people to take this as France's attack on the American left as a whole because people are terrible at reading within the margins.
by Major-Tom » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:52 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Major-Tom wrote:Fringe theories stemming in America are considered fringe elsewhere, not really newsworthy. I still anticipate people to take this as France's attack on the American left as a whole because people are terrible at reading within the margins.
These theories are fringe in terms of popular support, but are overwhelmingly overrepresented in institutions of influence and in the media.
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:55 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
These theories are fringe in terms of popular support, but are overwhelmingly overrepresented in institutions of influence and in the media.
Speaking as an American, it's more of a grey area. Not overwhelmingly overrepresented nor statistically insignificant. Either way, I perceive it as more annoying than threatening. If some English professors want to talk about some bizarre theories in the lit classroom, it's more of an annoyance to students than a threat to their way of life. If some people at Mother Jones want to make some ludicrous arguments about the evils of "mansplaining" or some shit, it's going to piss people off more than it does threaten our cohesiveness as a nation.
by Echo Chamber Thought Police » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:57 pm
by Major-Tom » Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:58 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Major-Tom wrote:
Speaking as an American, it's more of a grey area. Not overwhelmingly overrepresented nor statistically insignificant. Either way, I perceive it as more annoying than threatening. If some English professors want to talk about some bizarre theories in the lit classroom, it's more of an annoyance to students than a threat to their way of life. If some people at Mother Jones want to make some ludicrous arguments about the evils of "mansplaining" or some shit, it's going to piss people off more than it does threaten our cohesiveness as a nation.
I disagree. We've seen a lot of laws being passed as a result of it as well as an overall breakdown in race relations and so on. Perhaps America is not as badly affected as the nations being spammed with this content by America.
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:00 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
I disagree. We've seen a lot of laws being passed as a result of it as well as an overall breakdown in race relations and so on. Perhaps America is not as badly affected as the nations being spammed with this content by America.
What laws in the US, at the federal level, have been "woke?" I mean, we've made strides in criminal justice reform, in sentencing laws, in protections for Transgender individuals, all of which some consider "woke" but really are just necessary social shifts and policies for an equitable nation.
I've seen no legislation regarding some of the more bizarre, absurd "wokeisms" if we want to call it that.
Sure, maybe some University Policies here and there have incorporated some of those dumber elements, or some local ordinances. But they're just that. Dumb. The focus on the broader cultural war I've seen from self-described "Anti-SJW" types and "Woke Left" types is what's really moronic.
At the end of the day, it's a distraction from the real issues that plague my country.
by The Marlborough » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:00 pm
by Major-Tom » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:02 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Major-Tom wrote:
What laws in the US, at the federal level, have been "woke?" I mean, we've made strides in criminal justice reform, in sentencing laws, in protections for Transgender individuals, all of which some consider "woke" but really are just necessary social shifts and policies for an equitable nation.
I've seen no legislation regarding some of the more bizarre, absurd "wokeisms" if we want to call it that.
VAWA is one example, but to be sure, the legislative paralysis gripping the US has prevented woke ideology from being as big a problem for them legislatively in the same way as it has in other countries, though still as detrimental to social cohesion and national identity and so on.
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:04 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
VAWA is one example, but to be sure, the legislative paralysis gripping the US has prevented woke ideology from being as big a problem for them legislatively in the same way as it has in other countries, though still as detrimental to social cohesion and national identity and so on.
The Violence Against Women Act? I don't know if that's woke as much as it is legislation that has been revised to protect women from, well, domestic violence. I know a common gripe with it is that the language doesn't explicitly cover men who suffer from domestic violence as well, but that's something that can be revised, not an example of an inherent problem with otherwise noble legislation.
I feel, at the end of the day, a lot of your talking points really boil down to a woman vs man sort of dichotomy, and I don't know if that's the foremost way to look at complex issues.
by Major-Tom » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:06 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Major-Tom wrote:
The Violence Against Women Act? I don't know if that's woke as much as it is legislation that has been revised to protect women from, well, domestic violence. I know a common gripe with it is that the language doesn't explicitly cover men who suffer from domestic violence as well, but that's something that can be revised, not an example of an inherent problem with otherwise noble legislation.
It's a problem arising from the social theories the movement espouses. I disagree the legislation is noble given these problems (And they're not just semantic, but relate to resource distribution).
There's also the problem of woke institutional policies adopted as you noted in your edit, not merely legislation at a federal level.I feel, at the end of the day, a lot of your talking points really boil down to a woman vs man sort of dichotomy, and I don't know if that's the foremost way to look at complex issues.
I'm *objecting to and opposing this dichotomy*.
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:09 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
It's a problem arising from the social theories the movement espouses. I disagree the legislation is noble given these problems (And they're not just semantic, but relate to resource distribution).
There's also the problem of woke institutional policies adopted as you noted in your edit, not merely legislation at a federal level.
I'm *objecting to and opposing this dichotomy*.
Well, if the whole premise of the legislation is to protect women from domestic violence and similar situations, then I think it's easy to argue that the intention is noble even if there are flaws (which can be fixed) with the implementation.
But I'll move on, because this is getting so esoteric that it hardly relates to the main topic at hand.
by Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:13 pm
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:14 pm
Nilokeras wrote:I think the fact that this entire kerfuffle stems from the decision of an opera director to not use the traditional blackface in one of their works says everything you need to know about the 'anti woke'ists.
by Galloism » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:15 pm
Major-Tom wrote:Well, if the whole premise of the legislation is to protect women from domestic violence and similar situations, then I think it's easy to argue that the intention is noble even if there are flaws (which can be fixed) with the implementation.
But I'll move on, because this is getting so esoteric that it hardly relates to the main topic at hand.
by Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:21 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:You're acting like this is the only incident rather than another step in a long line of them and a gradual escalation over time, including into areas the woke left previously adamantly denied they would ever go and characterized people as paranoid and exaggerating when they brought them up as inevitable consequences of the ideas they were espousing.
Ostroeuropa wrote:"All this over Danzig?"
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:26 pm
Nilokeras wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:You're acting like this is the only incident rather than another step in a long line of them and a gradual escalation over time, including into areas the woke left previously adamantly denied they would ever go and characterized people as paranoid and exaggerating when they brought them up as inevitable consequences of the ideas they were espousing.
And this step over the line is... not doing blackface?Ostroeuropa wrote:"All this over Danzig?"
Ah yes, thinking blackface is maybe not something we should do is definitely equivalent to Nazism.
by Arisyan » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:27 pm
by Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:29 pm
Arisyan wrote:*sighs*. Dear god. What, is even your problem with the "woke left", which isn't even really true because wokeists are an entire political spectrum on their own. But I digress. There are far, far more problems going on in the world then SJWs complaining about man spreading.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:31 pm
by Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:36 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:The step over the line would be the self-flagellating nonsense of pandering to people who think blackface in a non-derogatory fashion in a traditional format is racism.
Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm pointing out to you that if you keep ripping up deals that say you wont do things when people point out they're worried "If we give you X, you're going to take Y later on", then eventually, people have had enough and will react to the totality of your demands, not merely the latest one, but also the ones they're worried you're going to do in future, and you denying "I'm not going to do that in future" no longer means anything to them.
by Echo Chamber Thought Police » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:40 pm
by Celritannia » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:42 pm
My DeviantArt Obey When you annoy a Celritannian U W0T M8?
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