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by Europeian Embassy » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:03 pm
by Kranostav » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:28 pm
by Refuge Isle » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:50 pm
by RiderSyl » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:52 pm
by Praeceps » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:59 pm
by RiderSyl » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:05 pm
by Varanius » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:10 pm
RiderSyl wrote:It is important in denying fascism a platform, but unfortunately that's not what TNP did.
Angeloid Astraea wrote:I can't think of anyone that creates controversy out of nothing better than you!
Excidium Planetis wrote:Yeah, if you could enlighten me as to why you're such an asshole, that would be great.
Koth wrote:Vara is such a dedicated hater, it's impressive
Mlakhavia wrote:Vara isn't a gameplay personality, he's a concentrated ball of spite
by RiderSyl » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 pm
by King HEM » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:29 pm
RiderSyl wrote:It is important in denying fascism a platform, but unfortunately that's not what TNP did. You know that, Praetor, as I had the evidence forwarded to you and McMasterdonia via Robespierre. Apparently you only accept evidence from me when it helps your agenda.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually believe it." I don't remember who said that, but that seems to be TNP's gameplan.
by RiderSyl » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:44 pm
King HEM wrote:Joseph Goebbels said it, which is why it's wryly ironic that the quote is being used to defend a region with deep fascist history.
All true.King HEM wrote:And that's what's indisputable! The region has a deep, deep, fascist history. Going as far to try to overthrow the government of The North Pacific, in no small part, due to their anti-fascist efforts.
King HEM wrote:Have they reformed? In my experience, when the rot goes so deep, it's really hard to dig it out. If select people are sincerely trying, then good on them, but sponging the writing from that stone is going to take a lot. To be quite honest, I think it would've been far better for anti-fascists within the region to just found their own region — what is there to be proud of within the CCD anyways?
King HEM wrote:How many chances do we need to give these guys? When someone tells you who they are, believe them. And part of believing them is taking appropriate action to defend your interests against them. Which The North Pacific did.
King HEM wrote:If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt and another chance — that's your prerogative. But don't act like people, including true victims of their behavior like The North Pacific, have to substitute their judgement for yours.
by Praeceps » Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:20 pm
RiderSyl wrote:It is important in denying fascism a platform, but unfortunately that's not what TNP did. You know that, Praetor, as I had the evidence forwarded to you and McMasterdonia via Robespierre. Apparently you only accept evidence from me when it helps your agenda.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually believe it." I don't remember who said that, but that seems to be TNP's gameplan.
by RiderSyl » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:13 am
Praeceps wrote:I don't recall ever accepting evidence from you prior to Robes passing on that link; not sure what you mean by that in that case.
Praeceps wrote:I am well aware of your opinion and that you believe yourself to be objective in the matter of whether CCD is fascist or not. Forgive my skepticism for your claims of objectivity given that the proof you cite as the CCD not being fascist was compiled with the assistance of the CCD as per your request. The proof was also linked in their dispatch riddled with factual errors professing their innocence until you asked them to remove the link.
Praeceps wrote:The facts of the matter remain clear, not even a year ago, the leadership of the CCD wholeheartedly and proudly embraced fascism—clearly displayed by the embassy history of the CCD.
Praeceps wrote:While the CCD has since closed those embassies and made loud protestations wherever possible as to no longer being fascist, we remain unconvinced and note that the leadership of the region which turned it fascist remains.
Praeceps wrote:Furthermore, we have noted attempts at independent identification of fascist nations within the region being suppressed by the government. We are sure that the CCD will have a convenient excuse for these actions similar to their denials of being fascist prior to openly displaying fascist identification.
Praeceps wrote:I am confident you will disagree with our stance and will come up with some response, that's fine but I have no interest in getting into the matter with you.
Praeceps wrote:TNP will continue to monitor the region and discuss with those truly independent from the CCD as to whether the CCD is no longer fascist when appropriate.
Praeceps wrote:Feel free to stop talking in Jocospor's DMs at any time.
by Toerana » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:00 am
Comfed wrote:It is not a matter of not trusting the democratic WA vote. It is a matter of denying them the legitimacy of a WA vote.
I personally thank Europeia for the statement.
by Unibot III » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:01 am
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:31 am
Unibot III wrote:Whenever there was a big Nazi-led raid on actual UCRs, defenders would invite ERN to join our liberations — and the response was always the same, their rep would lower their head and quietly say: “sorry, not this time, Uni.” The only liberation that ERN was keen to participate in was of a UCR that had no native residents. Euro, TNP, & the other Independents are not interested in stopping fascism, they’re interested in inventing bogeymen to raid, slandering defenders, and invading regions full stop regardless of their political affiliation.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Unibot III » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:51 am
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Unibot III wrote:Whenever there was a big Nazi-led raid on actual UCRs, defenders would invite ERN to join our liberations — and the response was always the same, their rep would lower their head and quietly say: “sorry, not this time, Uni.” The only liberation that ERN was keen to participate in was of a UCR that had no native residents. Euro, TNP, & the other Independents are not interested in stopping fascism, they’re interested in inventing bogeymen to raid, slandering defenders, and invading regions full stop regardless of their political affiliation.
Having joined ye olde fendas once, for Anne Frank, I'd never want to do it again as an org leader. Days and fucking days of bitching and fighting over whether anyone is allowed to make a statement, what it can say, this that and the other thing. At least when the NPO or someone leads one in the modern era, it's efficient - not having hernias over whether or not LKE can make a forum post about the op.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Pichtonia » Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:03 am
Unibot III wrote:For years now, Europeia has been championing every possible way to justify invading regions, whether they’re fascist or not, as an anti-fascist initiative and chiding defenders for “siding with fascism.” It’s gross, empty political posturing: independentists trying to justify their raids with a faux moral cause.
Whenever there was a big Nazi-led raid on actual UCRs, defenders would invite ERN to join our liberations — and the response was always the same, their rep would lower their head and quietly say: “sorry, not this time, Uni.” The only liberation that ERN was keen to participate in was of a UCR that had no native residents. Euro, TNP, & the other Independents are not interested in stopping fascism, they’re interested in inventing bogeymen to raid, slandering defenders, and invading regions full stop regardless of their political affiliation.
The comparison with Goebbels is especially rich coming from a region that has shamelessly used anti-fascism and anti-Nazism for cheap political gain and propaganda for at least seven years now, and gratuitously slandered defenders as aiding or abetting fascism for defending regions that have no relation to fascism or nazism at all.
by Black Hawks Matter » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:48 am
RiderSyl wrote:I'm actually disgusted by it. Any region that paints their IC opposition as irredeemable OOC fascists for IC reasons is one that I want nothing to do with, and it does a disservice to the cause of anti-fascism on NS.
by CoraSpia » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:41 pm
Black Hawks Matter wrote:RiderSyl wrote:I'm actually disgusted by it. Any region that paints their IC opposition as irredeemable OOC fascists for IC reasons is one that I want nothing to do with, and it does a disservice to the cause of anti-fascism on NS.
Fascism is wrong and all who oppose the cause of anti-fascists on NS are held in suspicion.
by King HEM » Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:36 pm
Unibot III wrote:For years now, Europeia has been championing every possible way to justify invading regions, whether they’re fascist or not, as an anti-fascist initiative and chiding defenders for “siding with fascism.” It’s gross, empty political posturing: independentists trying to justify their raids with a faux moral cause.
Whenever there was a big Nazi-led raid on actual UCRs, defenders would invite ERN to join our liberations — and the response was always the same, their rep would lower their head and quietly say: “sorry, not this time, Uni.” The only liberation that ERN was keen to participate in was of a UCR that had no native residents. Euro, TNP, & the other Independents are not interested in stopping fascism, they’re interested in inventing bogeymen to raid, slandering defenders, and invading regions full stop regardless of their political affiliation.
The comparison with Goebbels is especially rich coming from a region that has shamelessly used anti-fascism and anti-Nazism for cheap political gain and propaganda for at least seven years now, and gratuitously slandered defenders as aiding or abetting fascism for defending regions that have no relation to fascism or nazism at all.
by RiderSyl » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:34 pm
King HEM wrote:Well, er, first off, nobody was compared to Joseph Goebbels — though your post comes close to comparing Europeia to him I suppose. RiderSyl quoted him without realizing it and I filled in the blank, commenting that it was wryly ironic given the discussion.
by King HEM » Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:15 pm
RiderSyl wrote:King HEM wrote:Well, er, first off, nobody was compared to Joseph Goebbels — though your post comes close to comparing Europeia to him I suppose. RiderSyl quoted him without realizing it and I filled in the blank, commenting that it was wryly ironic given the discussion.
Yup. That's an accurate summation of our exchange. Europeia definitely didn't compare anyone to Goebbels, and I have no idea where Unibot got that from. Just.. reading the thread would've shown that that didn't happen. Maybe he skimmed it or something. Idk.
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